Visiting AFTER April 15 (if admitted off WL).

[objectivityofcontradiction]

A rather specific thread but if I am running into this issue I assume some others are as well. What is the protocol for visiting those schools that, if you are lucky enough, admit you right on or around April 15, and thus presumably after they have already hosted their department organized, 'official' visits? 

 

FWIW, I have had two schools tell me that I was more than welcome to attend their visit even though I was on the wait-list in both cases. In the first case, I declined to visit (still on the wait-list). But for school #2 I am thinking about visiting this weekend even though it would be on very short notice. In both cases I was told I'd get department support. I also assume they wouldn't extend the invite if I wasn't either at the top or very near to the top of the wait-list. I am leaning towards not visiting this weekend and just hoping that I will get an official offer by this time next week.

 

So I return to my question from above: is it normal for a student admitted right on or around April 15 to schedule their own personal visit for some time after? 

[Griswald]

I'm not sure I understand your predicament. In most cases, you're supposed to accept an offer by the 15th. If you accept at school A and ask to visit, I'm sure they'd be happy to have you out, although they probably won't pay for your travel expenses at that point. If you haven't accepted A's offer, and it's past the 15th, I doubt that A would be willing to have you out for a visit that extends past the national deadline. That just makes things more difficult for everybody at A and on A's wait list.

 

I'm especially puzzled about why you would decline an offer to visit and then ask to visit after the 15th. The reason they asked you to visit in the first place was so you could make an informed decision should you get off the wait list at the last minute. 

 

Again, I might be misunderstanding you, but I hope you don't intend to ask a department to make an exception to the national deadline so you can visit after the 15th. That strikes me as a really selfish thing to do. If you're only asking about visiting after accepting an offer, then, again, that seems totally fine.

Edited April 7, 2014 by aduh

[TheVineyard]

A rather specific thread but if I am running into this issue I assume some others are as well. What is the protocol for visiting those schools that, if you are lucky enough, admit you right on or around April 15, and thus presumably after they have already hosted their department organized, 'official' visits? 

 

FWIW, I have had two schools tell me that I was more than welcome to attend their visit even though I was on the wait-list in both cases. In the first case, I declined to visit (still on the wait-list). But for school #2 I am thinking about visiting this weekend even though it would be on very short notice. In both cases I was told I'd get department support. I also assume they wouldn't extend the invite if I wasn't either at the top or very near to the top of the wait-list. I am leaning towards not visiting this weekend and just hoping that I will get an official offer by this time next week.

 

So I return to my question from above: is it normal for a student admitted right on or around April 15 to schedule their own personal visit for some time after? 

 

Well...if this became standard, all it would mean is that we would all have to wait even longer to hear back from our programs. This would mean that while students are scheduling and taking their "post-acceptance" visits, the rest of us waitlisted people are sitting at home for weeks and weeks as you wait to make your decision so that the places you decline can start accepting people and the dominos can fall. The whole idea of April 15th is that it is a hard deadline on you accepting an offer so offers to other students can be made. If a school you are considering accepting offers you the ability to visit, why would you turn it down? The whole point of going is so you would be ready on the 15th to make a decision.

 

Honestly, and this isn't directed at you, but even thinking about this pisses me off in a way. The whole operation would be shut down for an extra several weeks just so some rich students can go visit all of their accepted places AFTER the deadline, while the students that can't afford visits continue to rot away, waiting to hear something. (PS: I DO have the money to take visits of the sort described, and sure wouldn't it be nice for me! However, it would be wholly unfair for those still waiting.)

Edited April 7, 2014 by TheVineyard

[objectivityofcontradiction]

OK. I am going to chalk this up to my being a pretty poor internet scribbler, but you two have both grossly misread my question and misjudged my intent. 

 

I am not asking a school to extend a deadline. I am wait-listed. I was told, even though I am wait-listed, I am welcome to visit this weekend. My predicament is that the offer to visit was extended on a Monday, and the visit starts on Friday of the same week. Short notice. And, given that next Tuesday is the national deadline, and I have to hear back from this school either way by that day, I am just wondering whether or not I should go through with the visit (given the risks involved as a wait-listed visitor), get my hopes up, and be crushed next week. Or just hope to get the offer on April 15, in which case I'd ask, as AN ADMITTED STUDENT, to visit on my own time, or, I'd just see them in the fall when the semester begins FOR ADMITTED STUDENTS. I am sure what I did not make clear last post was that this particular school is my TOP CHOICE and so I'd definitely accept an offer. 

 

Clearer? 

 

ps Vineyard: if my visit wasn't funded my salary as a substitute teacher would not allow me to get out out for any visits. save the rich kid comments for some one who is actually rich.... thanks BRO. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by objectivityofcontradiction

[Griswald]

OK. I am going to chalk this up to my being a pretty poor internet scribbler, but you two have both grossly misread my question and misjudged my intent. 

 

I am not asking a school to extend a deadline. I am wait-listed. I was told, even though I am wait-listed, I am welcome to visit this weekend. My predicament is that the offer to visit was extended on a Monday, and the visit starts on Friday of the same week. Short notice. And, given that next Tuesday is the national deadline, and I have to hear back from this school either way by that day, I am just wondering whether or not I should go through with the visit (given the risks involved as a wait-listed visitor), get my hopes up, and be crushed next week. Or just hope to get the offer on April 15, in which case I'd ask, as AN ADMITTED STUDENT, to visit on my own time, or, I'd just see them in the fall when the semester begins FOR ADMITTED STUDENTS. 

 

Clearer? 

 

ps Vineyard: if my visit wasn't funded my salary as a substitute teacher would not allow me to get out out for any visits. save the rich kid comments for some one who is actually rich.... thanks BRO. 

Thanks, that's much clearer. I'm sorry if I was uncharitable before.

 

Here's my advice. If you're certain that you'll accept the offer should you get off the wait list, and you're worried about visiting as a waitlistee, then don't visit. (Personally, I think worries about visiting as a waitlistee are mostly irrational, so I'd still visit. But that's a bit off topic.)

 

If you're not yet certain about what you'll do should you get off the wait list, then visit. Visiting is a great way to get information about the department that is difficult to get otherwise. Plus, visits can be a lot of fun.

[TheVineyard]

So the question is, essentially, do you want to take a visit to the school you've already been accepted to just for fun?

Sure, go right ahead. I'm not sure you can get it on the school's dime, as that money is for recruitment. It good to visit during a conference or somesuch.

Edited April 7, 2014 by TheVineyard

[objectivityofcontradiction]

So the question is, essentially, do you want to take a visit to the school you've already been accepted to just for fun?

Sure, go right ahead. I'm not sure you can get it on the school's dime, as that money is for recruitment. It good to visit during a conference or somesuch.

 

Not accepted yet. Wait-listed. That was made clear in the first post, and clearer in the second. It is all made rather more complicated just by the fact that their visit weekend is scheduled for the weekend before decision day. I have no acceptances yet. Just three wait-list spots, this is why it is a weird spot. Do I visit this weekend while still on the wait-list, or hope that they have several decline between now and the 15th, in which case I'll get an offer, accept, and visit after... maybe it is a rather case-specific problem to have, but I assumed some others like me (wait-listed, no offers, i.e. april 15 is the real judgment day) might be in a similar spot. 

[PerpetualApplicant No More]

Let me see if I understand you correctly: is your dilemma between visiting this weekend or visiting after April 15 *once you have made up your mind*? Or is it between visiting this weekend and hoping to somehow visit on April 15 itself, or April 16 *prior to making up your mind*?

 

If it is the latter, I am not sure what to tell you. If you were holding offers, you would't be able to do it, but if (AND ONLY IF) you receive two offers on April 15 and cannot make up your mind, you can ask both of them for another day or two and try to scrable out to visit (in response to those who say this is unethical--I think that's only the case if you have an offe)r--any offer--in hand before April 15. If you receive the offer on April 15 itself, then you simply are part of the chain, rather than holding up the chain).

 

If it is the former interpretation, I would say the exact same advice applies to you regarding whether to visit while wait-listed that was discussed in the thread "Wait-listed and Contacting Professors." tl;dr, it can hurt you to be seen as a supplicant/do something silly when you are there, but it is generally worth it if and only if it will help you make your decision.

 

Given that you've already made your decision (i.e. you know in what order you would take the offers), my two cents is don't go while wait-listed, as, from what you have written, I am not sure what you would gain out of it.

Edited April 7, 2014 by perpetualapplicant

[objectivityofcontradiction]

Regarding the 'holding onto offers' bit. I have no offers yet to hold onto, maybe I did not make that clear either. 

 

I have 3 wait-list 'offers' and, from what I have been told, a lot of times some of us on wait-lists won't hear anything until the 14th or 15th. And when we do, we will be expected to make on the spot decisions for the reasons discussed above and elsewhere: OTHERS ARE WAITING TOO. An old professor of mine told me a story about how back in the 90s when he was applying he got a call at noon on April 15th essentially telling him, 'you are in off the wait-list. Do you accept? We must know now, otherwise we will move right down the list.' 

 

This is the situation I am expecting to be in. That or silence and then... despair. 

[TheVineyard]

We are assuming you get accepted, that's why we are talking about "offers." We know you're waitlisted.

IMO, if you want to visit, then visit now. Otherwise it does nothing for you. Visiting after you have been accepted on April 15 (and, therefore, after you have made a decision), is just essentially a vacation to the new city. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't helping you make a decision, it isn't helping professors get to know you better so they can feel confident in accepting you....its not even a comparable situation.

I know the feeling of wanting to visit just for fun/get to meet people and check out the city, but visiting right after you've been accepted is, to me, the strangest time to want to visit. Visit beforehand to help make a decision, ASSUMING YOU GET THE OFFERS, or just wait until the summer or early fall to visit the new city when things are a bit more stress-free, or just move in a couple weeks early!

[Zukunftsmusik]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main question I took away from the original post is something like the following: what is protocol for visiting schools that admit you on or around April 15th (after their organized recruitment visits - to which you've been invited on the department's dime but have or are considering declining because of the negative aspects of visiting as a waitlistee, e.g. hurting your chances of an offer, getting your hopes up to be let down, etc.).

 

I think this is a good question to ask, but I'm not sure if any of us can help you much. Not many of us have been in that position before (and if we had, we likely wouldn't be on this forum now). I'm quite confused for the following reason though: you're concerned you might be asked to make a decision on the spot if an offer comes through on April 15th. If that's the case, then you will have to accept or decline on short notice and won't have an opportunity to visit until after you've accepted or declined the offer. If you decline, you obviously have no reason to visit. If you accept, then it's understandable you might like to meet people in the department and get a feel for things. The department would be more than welcoming I'm sure, but as has been pointed out, this will almost certainly be on your own dime because funding such visits is for recruitment purposes only (i.e. helping you make a decision regarding their offer). If you've already accepted their offer, they're no longer recruiting you and there's no decision to be made. So, if the sort of scenario you have in mind is one in which you have to make a quick decision, I don't see how the question about visiting comes into play - either you decline and so don't visit or you accept and so visiting won't help you make a decision.

 

What I feel is tripping people up in addressing your question to your satisfaction is the fact that most people use visits to help make decisions, but the scenario you seem to be worried about is one in which visiting won't help you make a decision. On the other hand, there's the possibility that an offer comes through on or around April 15th and that program doesn't demand a decision right away. I can personally attest to this happening a few years ago - at one the programs where you're waitlisted, in fact. I was made an offer a little before April 15th and they gave me until April 29th to decide along with an invitation to visit. I don't know how common this is and perhaps they'd be less likely to give you time to visit and decide if they already extended such an invitation to you and you declined. In such a scenario where an immediate decision isn't demanded of you, however, I don't see how a department could be anything but welcoming to your visiting in whatever window of time is afforded to you (and they may be willing to fund your visit as it still would count as for recruitment purposes). All you'd have to do is ask (if they don't outright invite you).

 

So, if the department(s) demand an answer right away, visiting is a non-issue. If you decline, you have no reason to visit. If you accept, of course you can do it on your own time for whatever purposes you might have, but they're not going to fund you. If the department(s) don't demand an answer right away - i.e. give you time to visit and decide, the answer seems pretty straightforward: ask.

[objectivityofcontradiction]

Thanks all for your responses.