Best way to start working with a professor you don't (and most likely won't) have a class with?

[logos0516]

I would like to start working with a couple of professors/maybe being a research assistant, and I have a couple of papers I would like to start working on for publication, and I could use their guidance. I'm wondering what the best way to go about this is, especially if they don't know me because they haven't had me in a class yet and most likely won't? P.S. my department is kind of big, so we have way more faculty than classes taught each semester. Usually if a professor at my school doesn't have a class, then you won't ever really see him/her around.

[philstudent1991]

I'm interested in this too

[Griswald]

Introduce yourself in an email and ask to schedule a meeting with them. 

Edited April 12, 2014 by aduh

[MattDest]

Introduce yourself in an email and ask to schedule a meeting with them. 

 

Ditto this. logos, are you still at CUNY then? 

[logos0516]

Ditto this. logos, are you still at CUNY then? 

Yes, I am still at CUNY. I will be taking classes next year as either a non-matriculant, or a visiting scholar. I want to develop good relationships with some potential recommenders, but so far they haven't gotten back to me...they have ignored my emails in which I either asked for a meeting, or told them of my interest in working with them as, say, a possible research assistant. That makes me upset, because the professors at CUNY Graduate Center generally have a pretty light teaching load, and perhaps a majority of them don't even teach at all. I mean, most of the professors there I have never even seen, let alone talked to. But naturally, since recommendations are the first or second most important part of the application, I want to develop those relationships and have them get to know my work inside and out. But none of them seem to be willing to lift a finger or even MEET with me or even RESPOND to my email, which, frankly, I this is down right rude. I'm really getting disgusted at this point. 

[TheVineyard]

Yes, I am still at CUNY. I will be taking classes next year as either a non-matriculant, or a visiting scholar. I want to develop good relationships with some potential recommenders, but so far they haven't gotten back to me...they have ignored my emails in which I either asked for a meeting, or told them of my interest in working with them as, say, a possible research assistant. That makes me upset, because the professors at CUNY Graduate Center generally have a pretty light teaching load, and perhaps a majority of them don't even teach at all. I mean, most of the professors there I have never even seen, let alone talked to. But naturally, since recommendations are the first or second most important part of the application, I want to develop those relationships and have them get to know my work inside and out. But none of them seem to be willing to lift a finger or even MEET with me or even RESPOND to my email, which, frankly, I this is down right rude. I'm really getting disgusted at this point. 

 

Maybe they want you out of their hair?

[Griswald]

Logos, I don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but you might want to be more careful about what you say on these threads, especially given that you've made yourself easy to identify. I remember you saying some pretty inflammatory things about your department awhile back when you were worried about being admitted. It's not uncommon for faculty and current grad students to read these forums. If people in your department read your remarks, I imagine they could be offended, and that, as a consequence, they would not want to work with you. I'm not saying that anything like this has actually happened, but it's something to keep in mind, I think.

[Establishment]

Vineyard has a point. It's possible to interpret their reaction's as a sign that they're not interested in you.

[logos0516]

Logos, I don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but you might want to be more careful about what you say on these threads, especially given that you've made yourself easy to identify. I remember you saying some pretty inflammatory things about your department awhile back when you were worried about being admitted. It's not uncommon for faculty and current grad students to read these forums. If people in your department read your remarks, I imagine they could be offended, and that, as a consequence, they would not want to work with you. I'm not saying that anything like this has actually happened, but it's something to keep in mind, I think

All I am saying, aduh, is that it is a shame some faculty members think they can completely ignore graduate and undergraduate students. I mean, most of the reason they are there and get paid is to work with students. Research is something they should be doing outside of their teaching load. But you tell me, aduh, you tell me, how am I supposed to get great recommendation letters, if not to approach faculty, and how am I supposed to work with faculty, if they will not even get back to my emails? Coming off an especially frustrating application season, I am just trying to improve my chances for next year, and yet I am meeting with more frustration. I am trying, but my efforts don't seem to be paying off. 

 

 

 I certainly hope my identity has not been disclosed. If you think you know who I am, please send me an email. Either way, I am already rejected from CUNY, so am, at least at that particular school, out of options, at least for the time being. 

 

What school are you headed to next year?

[MattDest]

All I am saying, aduh, is that it is a shame some faculty members think they can completely ignore graduate and undergraduate students. I mean, most of the reason they are there and get paid is to work with students. Research is something they should be doing outside of their teaching load. But you tell me, aduh, you tell me, how am I supposed to get great recommendation letters, if not to approach faculty, and how am I supposed to work with faculty, if they will not even get back to my emails? Coming off an especially frustrating application season, I am just trying to improve my chances for next year, and yet I am meeting with more frustration. I am trying, but my efforts don't seem to be paying off. 

 

 

 I certainly hope my identity has not been disclosed. If you think you know who I am, please send me an email. Either way, I am already rejected from CUNY, so am, at least at that particular school, out of options, at least for the time being. 

 

What school are you headed to next year?

 

I don't think it's really fair to suggest that professors have a responsibility to maintain working relationships with students who are no longer enrolled in their university. Everybody might wish that they had the time to do so, but they've got students who are enrolled that they need to make time for. I understand why you are frustrated, but continuing to send e-mails to these faculty members if they have previously ignored your communication isn't likely to help your cause. 

[logos0516]

I don't think it's really fair to suggest that professors have a responsibility to maintain working relationships with students who are no longer enrolled in their university. Everybody might wish that they had the time to do so, but they've got students who are enrolled that they need to make time for. I understand why you are frustrated, but continuing to send e-mails to these faculty members if they have previously ignored your communication isn't likely to help your cause. 

No, I'm not continuing to send emails to them. I just sent the one email, and I will only send the one email. It's just discouraging. But perhaps a bright spot is that one of these professors is teaching a course I would like to enroll in next semester, so hopefully if I do well in the course, I will be able to get a recy iommendation letter from them. 

[PerpetualApplicant No More]

Ok a few thoughts:

 

1) To tie a few other posts together, I understand your frustration, logos, but this forum probably isn't the best place to vent unfiltered, for the reasons aduh mentioned. From what I can tell, you expressed regret in March for things you said in February, so, given that precedent, I'd find a more private place to vent.

 

2) I have no idea if these professors aren't interested in you or not. Do they have office hours? Show up and see. If not, I think a single, follow-up email, several weeks after the first one is not out of the question (they may still not respond, but they also are unlikely to interpret two polite emails, several weeks apart--when they failed to respond to the first one--as pestering). But be apologetic in the second one anyway

 

3) I wonder if you'd benefit from a new start. It seems like you have some frustrations with CUNY (which may or may not be warranted--I have no clue and am not in any sort of epistemic position to make any claims about), and, from what you've said, at least one or two profs don't really like you there.

 

So my advice might actually be, if at all possible, to move and take classes in a different department (if you don't move, people at nyu//columbia will be like 'why isn't this guy just sticking with cuny?'). I did something similar. I did my first MA at a ph.d. program, we'll call it X, and didn't do so well, wasn't admitted there (and was shut out) etc. But I passed, and was doing better by the end, and could have stuck around to take classes as a non-degree student if I'd wanted. Instead, I took a few years off and moved (I don't think the few years off point is relevant here, just mentioning it). So when I looked into coming back and taking classes, I asked my adviser at program X, who was friendly to me but didn't love me or write me a great letter, who I should take clases with at local program Y. He mentioned a few people, and I emailed some of them, saying I was a MA graduate of program X and who I'd studied with, and they were all more than happy to have me sit in on a seminar. And I did really well in my first seminar there, and built a relationship with that prof, so that when I inquired about subsequent seminars at program Y, I just said I was a graduate of program X taking seminars at program Y, and had already taken one--and really gotten along with--a particular prof. And then they were all more than happy to have me take their seminars, and that was that.

 

The reason I feel the fresh start really benefitted me was that, if I'd gone back to program X, my letters--even from different profs--would have at best said something like "perpetualapplicant is a great student now, but [i've heard] he was not so great when he started here," whereas the letters--that I used this year--from school Y said "I don't know what happened at school X, but perpetualapplicant has been fucking fantastic here." And it seems from what you are saying that you are thinking about getting new letters, that is, from different people than the ones who wrote for you this year (again, I have no epistemic access to your situation so I cannot say if this is necessary or not). But if that's what you want, then this is my advice.

Edited April 12, 2014 by perpetualapplicant

[logos0516]

Ok a few thoughts:

 

1) To tie a few other posts together, I understand your frustration, logos, but this forum probably isn't the best place to vent unfiltered, for the reasons aduh mentioned. From what I can tell, you expressed regret in March for things you said in February, so, given that precedent, I'd find a more private place to vent.

 

2) I have no idea if these professors aren't interested in you or not. Do they have office hours? Show up and see. If not, I think a single, follow-up email, several weeks after the first one is not out of the question (they may still not respond, but they also are unlikely to interpret two polite emails, several weeks apart--when they failed to respond to the first one--as pestering). But be apologetic in the second one anyway

 

3) I wonder if you'd benefit from a new start. It seems like you have some frustrations with CUNY (which may or may not be warranted--I have no clue and am not in any sort of epistemic position to make any claims about), and, from what you've said, at least one or two profs don't really like you there.

 

So my advice might actually be, if at all possible, to move and take classes in a different department (if you don't move, people at nyu//columbia will be like 'why isn't this guy just sticking with cuny?'). I did something similar. I did my first MA at a ph.d. program, we'll call it X, and didn't do so well, wasn't admitted there (and was shut out) etc. But I passed, and was doing better by the end, and could have stuck around to take classes as a non-degree student if I'd wanted. Instead, I took a few years off and moved (I don't think the few years off point is relevant here, just mentioning it). So when I looked into coming back and taking classes, I asked my adviser at program X, who was friendly to me but didn't love me or write me a great letter, who I should take clases with at local program Y. He mentioned a few people, and I emailed some of them, saying I was a MA graduate of program X and who I'd studied with, and they were all more than happy to have me sit in on a seminar. And I did really well in my first seminar there, and built a relationship with that prof, so that when I inquired about subsequent seminars at program Y, I just said I was a graduate of program X taking seminars at program Y, and had already taken one--and really gotten along with--a particular prof. And then they were all more than happy to have me take their seminars, and that was that.

 

The reason I feel the fresh start really benefitted me was that, if I'd gone back to program X, my letters--even from different profs--would have at best said something like "perpetualapplicant is a great student now, but [i've heard] he was not so great when he started here," whereas the letters--that I used this year--from school Y said "I don't know what happened at school X, but perpetualapplicant has been fucking fantastic here." And it seems from what you are saying that you are thinking about getting new letters, that is, from different people than the ones who wrote for you this year (again, I have no epistemic access to your situation so I cannot say if this is necessary or not). But if that's what you want, then this is my advice.

Hi, thanks for your post. I actually think I might take up this option, since I seem to be hitting a dead-end at CUNY. At the very least, I will see if I can take a course at either NYU or Columbia next semester, and hopefully I will get to work with someone from there. I already have one person who really went to bat for me with the recommendation this year, and all I need is two other people. 

[PerpetualApplicant No More]

Hi, thanks for your post. I actually think I might take up this option, since I seem to be hitting a dead-end at CUNY. At the very least, I will see if I can take a course at either NYU or Columbia next semester, and hopefully I will get to work with someone from there. I already have one person who really went to bat for me with the recommendation this year, and all I need is two other people. 

In that case, I'd say discuss this all with the person who went to bat for you, and lean far more heavily on his/her advice than ours on this forum: not only is he/she a prof and we are all just 'prospies' (and a few bored current students), but *much* more importantly, he/she has epistemic access to particulars of your situation that we do not.

 

EDIT: He/she might also be able to 1) tell you if the people you've emailed at CUNY are just bad at responding to emails or actually not interested in working with you, or 2) as aduh says, suggest some people he/she knows at nyu/columbia/etc who you could work with and thus avoid the potential weirdness since you were recommended by him/her directly.

Edited April 12, 2014 by perpetualapplicant

[Griswald]

I hear you, and I'm sorry you're having a difficult time. My suggestion was just that you might avoid making things worse for yourself by being more discreet here. I have no idea who you are, but my impression was that if someone from CUNY read your posts, they might be able to figure out who you are. I might be wrong about that though. 

 

Anyway here are two more things you could try. Contact someone in the department who knows you and will respond to your emails--one of your letter writers, perhaps--and ask them to introduce you to the professors you're interested in working with, or ask them to help you arrange a meeting. Another idea, since your in NY/NJ, is to try to network at nearby departments. Maybe you can sit in on a class at NYU/Rutgers/Columbia/Princeton and see if anything comes of that (EDIT: I see this has been mentioned above, so I'm seconding perpetualapplicant's advice)

 

 

Edited April 12, 2014 by aduh