the ultimate question: polisci or philosophy?

[readeatsleep]

hello all, id like to plumb your soft supple heads for advice.

i am a masters student in a philosophy program; i studied philosophy and political theory (and history) as an undergraduate and did very well. i will be doing the application dance this summer to look for a phd program.

i am interested in the history of social and political theory, recognition and personal identity, critical theory, the frankfurt school, hannah arendt, nietzsche, hegel, rousseau, etc.

should i be in a political science phd or philosophy? lately ive been leaning towards political science since ive been disenchanted by philosophy - too much speculation, too much useless phenomenology, to much professionalization. on the other hand, i think id like to eventually teach in a philosophy department, as i feel like that would give me free reign to pursue my interests. i imagine i could be the political philosopher of a department one day, and do hegel as well.

but a political science phd would allow me to study social and poltical thought more closely as a graduate student, and learn more about the discipline as a whole. however, im not that excited about the mandatory classes in two other subfields outside of theory that seems to be standard at all good programs. on the other hand, the political theory job market, despite being so miserable, might actually be better than the philosophy job market.

so, what do you all think? i was planning on applying to the top 10 or 12 programs in each disicpline that i would be happy at, but thats like, $1,500 in application fees! so im haoping maybe i can cut that number in half by choosing a discipline.

thanks everyone.

[brinswan]

Hmm, that's a tough one. If you want to teach in a philosophy department you're probably better off getting a philosophy degree, but if you disregard that I think doing a PhD in political science (political theory) would be better for you. Another thing to consider - have you considered looking into [intellectual] history programs?

[natofone]

I think that your chances of getting into a top program would be better in philosophy. Looking at all of the cohort stats, there weren't many theory spots open compared to the other subfields.

Then again, you'll have an easier time getting a job with a poli sci degree if academia doesn't work out.

[Euthyphro]

I had a political theory professor whose interests mirrored yours (Nietzsche, Frankfurt School, Hegel, etc) in undergrad, and he always struck me as belonging in philosophy. Let's face it - in a PoliSci department, you're going to be a lone wolf; everyone will be doing studies on vote turnouts, intl. systems theory and micro finance and you'll be in the corner talking about the Owl of Minerva. PoliSci undergrads will be flummoxed by what you have to say (at least we were in this guy's class - Contemporary Political Theory and we read Nietzsche, Beckett, Camus, Sartre, Marcuse, Adorno, and de Beauvoir).

Pol Theory as a discipline might promise better job prospects, but you'll have better job prospects in philosophy with these interests, IMO.

[My Name is Yon Yonson]

I would say philosophy just because all in all it's more flexible (please correct me if I'm wrong). With political science (theory in particular) you can't really hop around that much between areas within a field (say, classical and renaissance). Plus, lots of the PhD philosophy progs allow their scholars to use the polisci departments (I'm not sure how much can be said about the other way around). I know I've heard of both political science and philosophy professors teaching political and social theory, but I don't know how many polisci professors I have heard that teach philosophy courses (save for political theory in its most limited form).

Have you looked into programs that offer a lot of interplay between philosophy and political science (theory) departments?

[Canofbeans]

I am not sure I would be able to answer that question, but I think it depends what direction you are going into. I'm extremely interested in Political philosophy including a lot of the things you mentioned, critical theory, postructrualism, lots of Foucault, Arendt in Derrida. However, I only plan to learn and study these issue so that I can include them into my study of international relations. Therefore I don't plan to study in depth these issues, but they are sort of a means to an end if that makes sense? Anyhow, one thing you could consider is neither philosophy nor polisci, one of the programs I was thinking about for graduate studies was a graduate program in social and political thought. The program has a good reputation, and I know people who graduated from it have gone either in philosophy, sociology or political science. Programs like that help keep an open route in case you change your mind or just don't want to decide so it something to think about and look into. There's a limited number of universities that offer this of course so that may be a problem.

[Ferrero]

Can you justify how your research appeals to contemporary political science, or contemporary politics writ large? No? Then go with philosophy. It will be so much less painful when you give a job talk.

[LunaSea]

I'm going to differ here. The majority of posts have advised to stay in the Philosophy field, and while you would undoubtedly be a "Lone Wolf" in a PolySci setting, that may work in your favor. You would stand out, regardless of whether you chose a political career or an academic one after your degree.

[CatallaxisOfEvil]

Philosophy or Political Science, eh?

I'd say neither. You sound like a History of Political Thought person to me.

The best part? You could probably make yourself employable in history, political science/theory AND philosophy departments, if you balance your expertise right.

[Christopher]

I was in the exact same boat when I was preparing PhD applications (BA and MA from a philosophy program, focus in social and political thought and how it intersects with contemporary digital networks); when I went to conferences the philosophers thought I belonged in polisci and vice versa *grin*.

I found a department that fits me wonderfully - UVic has a strong theory department, lets you work in the Cultural, Social, and Political Thought program if you'd like (an interdisciplinary theory) - but few political science departments were as strong in theory as I wanted them to be. I didn't apply anywhere that I didn't think I'd fit in - in my MA I was the 'lone wolf' that has been described, and while bearable for a year I wouldn't want to spent 4 years in a PhD without comrades to bounce ideas off.

If you're interested in Frankfurt school and other continental thinkers then large departments like UoT and McGill might be appropriate (I'm Canadian, hence the Canadian examples). Similarly, there may be philosophy programs that offer you enough freedom that you can explore what you want rather than being confined by philosphical 'professionalism'. Were I you, I'd find particular academics you'd like to work with and ask them what they think of your 'fit' in the department. It can save you lots of money, demonstrate interest in a program, AND develop contacts with potential supervisors.

[Descrates]

I'll chime in since my interests are in the same ballpark as you. I think you are definitely applying to too many schools. If I were in your shoes, I would apply to the top four or five schools in both Theory and Philosophy, and then only apply to the top fifteen departments in each which are strong in your interests. One convenient fact for people interested in Continental thought is that many of the programs here are strong in both theory and philosophy: Chicago, WashU, and Berkeley spring to mind. Otherwise, for Theory, I know Hopkins and Duke are both known for placing people well and they are known for Continentalism, also. For Philosophy, I would avoid schools heavily commited to analytic approaches such as Michigan or UCSD.