Difficulties of heading to Canada for a PhD?

[CrashJupiter]

Hey all,

I'll be applying to PhD programs in the fall and am currently putting together my application materials and whittling down my school choices. I'll be applying for a spot in a PhD in Literature program, with postcolonial / world literature in English as my emphasis. As of now, both the University of British Columbia and the University of Toronto are on my long list. Is there anyone around that is an American who has gone to Canada for graduate school? Were there any unforeseen difficulties in the move? Is there any weirdness in the way funding goes or anything?

 

Any and all information and advice would be welcome. I searched around, but haven't found anything specific.

 

Thank you,

Christopher

[poliscar]

First of all, funding will be hard, because Canadian schools are very tied to SSHRC money, which you won't be eligible for. Because most students are expected to gain SSHRC funding as well, doctoral fellowships are not nearly as generous as they are at comparable American schools. 

Beyond that, you won't get a job after graduation. With a Canadian degree you're generally limiting yourself to Canadian tenure-track positions. However, as an American you would be shut out of those positions, seeing as Canadian universities prioritize Canadian citizens & permanent residents in jobs searches. Moreover, it's quite common now for these job positions to go to Canadian citizens who have completed their doctorates in American programs. 

I'd say that the bottom line is that you're better off completing your doctorate in the US, especially since you're American. Canadian programs are excellent, but as a Canadian undergrad I was repeatedly told to apply to American doctoral programs. Even the top Canadian schools have trouble placing candidates in TT positions. It's just not worth it.

 

(To add to this, I know I will face pushback for this post, particularly from Canadian grad students. I have nothing but respect for the programs in question, and there are excellent Canadian departments. The problems in question are a) the awful job market, which has been very hard on Canadian candidates, and the funding of the humanities in Canada, at a moment when Canadian universities are being rapidly neoliberalized. This isn't an attack on Canadian universities at all—it sucks for everyone.)

Edited May 25, 2014 by poliscar

[TakeruK]

I agree that because the top Canadian universities would probably be on par with second tier US schools, a US PhD has more job market value.

 

But, I just want to point out that Canada does a much much better job of funding the humanities than the US schools! However, as poliscar said, this almost all comes from SSHRC, which is only for Canadian students. 

[CrashJupiter]

First of all, funding will be hard, because Canadian schools are very tied to SSHRC money, which you won't be eligible for. Because most students are expected to gain SSHRC funding as well, doctoral fellowships are not nearly as generous as they are at comparable American schools. 

Beyond that, you won't get a job after graduation. With a Canadian degree you're generally limiting yourself to Canadian tenure-track positions. However, as an American you would be shut out of those positions, seeing as Canadian universities prioritize Canadian citizens & permanent residents in jobs searches. Moreover, it's quite common now for these job positions to go to Canadian citizens who have completed their doctorates in American programs. 

I'd say that the bottom line is that you're better off completing your doctorate in the US, especially since you're American. Canadian programs are excellent, but as a Canadian undergrad I was repeatedly told to apply to American doctoral programs. Even the top Canadian schools have trouble placing candidates in TT positions. It's just not worth it.

 

(To add to this, I know I will face pushback for this post, particularly from Canadian grad students. I have nothing but respect for the programs in question, and there are excellent Canadian departments. The problems in question are a) the awful job market, which has been very hard on Canadian candidates, and the funding of the humanities in Canada, at a moment when Canadian universities are being rapidly neoliberalized. This isn't an attack on Canadian universities at all—it sucks for everyone.)

 

 

I agree that because the top Canadian universities would probably be on par with second tier US schools, a US PhD has more job market value.

 

But, I just want to point out that Canada does a much much better job of funding the humanities than the US schools! However, as poliscar said, this almost all comes from SSHRC, which is only for Canadian students. 

 

Good to know about the funding, so thanks! In my particular area, the degree does translate across the border as far as job searches go. It's not any easier than most second-tier American universities, but it's also not any harder, especially in the case of Toronto. In postcolonial / world literature in English, Toronto is considered one of the higher tier schools, even here, which is why I'm interested in applying to these two schools in the first place.

[TakeruK]

I just want to clarify that when I said second-tier, I didn't mean that it's not worth going to for grad school. But I know in my fields, often the big schools like UBC, Toronto, McGill are clearly in a lower league compared to MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc. But obviously these top schools are not the only place that produces good work

[literary_tourist]

It may depend on which province and which university you may apply for. Concordia so far has been very generous in providing international students fellowships. I applied to their Communications dept though. Not sure about English. I know Quebec has some scholarships for international students, so you may have to ask around. 

 

The admissions process is a little different too because one is expected to contact POIs first before applying.

 

My advice is, if you really want to study in Canada, contact your POI. Ask if s/he is interested in your research. Ask about funding for international students. They are usually very accommodating.

 

Aside from McGill, UBC and Toronto, Alberta has a great rep too.

 

I hope that helps.

Edited May 26, 2014 by literary_tourist

[poliscar]

I just want to clarify that when I said second-tier, I didn't mean that it's not worth going to for grad school. But I know in my fields, often the big schools like UBC, Toronto, McGill are clearly in a lower league compared to MIT, Harvard, Yale, etc. But obviously these top schools are not the only place that produces good work

To add to this, there is an even larger gap in the humanities when you factor in the role prestige plays in the humanities. Doing graduate work somewhere like TRIUMF at UBC (or any other significant lab/working group) will place you in a specific scientific context that isn't as contingent on "prestige." In the humanities, however, you're more dependent on school name and your advisor's status in the field—i.e. you're not going to have your name listed as a co-author on a paper, like you might in the sciences. More or less, you don't have the legs to stand on that a science student might, since the humanities are so fickle. 

Like I said before, Canadian departments are producing really great work, but there are so many problems with the job market. Toronto has a decent placement record, but it's no better than equivalent American schools, and you'll likely be working with less funding. UBC is—in all honesty—even more of a gamble. I won't tell you not to apply, but I would apply to top-tier American schools alongside UBC and Toronto. Don't get fixated on Canada, because at the moment it really isn't the greatest place to do graduate work in the humanities. I'll also say once again that I'm coming here from an insider position, so I do have a fair idea of what I'm talking about. 

 

[Roquentin]

There's no harm in applying to Canadian departments that are strong in your field. I'd recommend that you check out the University of Alberta (you would have the opportunity to work with the incomparable Stephen Slemon...). Other matters might be a little premature at this point, but should you choose to apply, be fortunate enough to be accepted into a good program, flourish during your degree, and enter the job market in a competitive fashion, I'd offer that the border is rather more permeable than has been suggested. I've known a few Canadian PhDs who chose to work in the U.S. If you're good enough, you can be a strong candidate in either country. This comes with a caveat, though. In my experience, American academics have a poor knowledge of Canadian universities and departments. If you do pursue a PhD in Canada, you should be prepared to describe/sell your department with gusto when required (though that's not a bad skill to develop regardless of where you go). Working with a supervisor who has international connections and landing a postdoc in the U.S. can make things easier too. As well, these matters can appear skewed by the fact that some Canadian PhDs, for valid reasons, limit their searches to Canadian positions (though this point is rather anecdotal).

 

As for funding, I've heard the reverse of poliscar's point. That is, I've heard that funding is better in Canada (SSHRC or no SSHRC). Tuition is also far less expensive.

[poliscar]

There's no harm in applying to Canadian departments that are strong in your field. I'd recommend that you check out the University of Alberta (you would have the opportunity to work with the incomparable Stephen Slemon...). Other matters might be a little premature at this point, but should you choose to apply, be fortunate enough to be accepted into a good program, flourish during your degree, and enter the job market in a competitive fashion, I'd offer that the border is rather more permeable than has been suggested. I've known a few Canadian PhDs who chose to work in the U.S. If you're good enough, you can be a strong candidate in either country. This comes with a caveat, though. In my experience, American academics have a poor knowledge of Canadian universities and departments. If you do pursue a PhD in Canada, you should be prepared to describe/sell your department with gusto when required (though that's not a bad skill to develop regardless of where you go). Working with a supervisor who has international connections and landing a postdoc in the U.S. can make things easier too. As well, these matters can appear skewed by the fact that some Canadian PhDs, for valid reasons, limit their searches to Canadian positions (though this point is rather anecdotal).

 

As for funding, I've heard the reverse of poliscar's point. That is, I've heard that funding is better in Canada (SSHRC or no SSHRC). Tuition is also far less expensive.

Any PhD program worth going to will give you a tuition waiver... really, who on earth would pay tuition for a doctorate; it's a total moot-point to bring it up. Moreover, no, funding is not better—most Canadian programs do not offer funding comparable to the better American programs, and yes, most Canadian doctoral students rely on SSHRC funding (or another comparable Canadian grant). You're also looking at higher teaching loads in some cases, which isn't ideal in the 5th or 6th year, when you should be writing. 

In terms of employment, there isn't really much to say that I haven't said already. You'll likely be shut out of Canadian jobs if you're not a citizen or landed immigrant, and you'll be a harder sell in the US, especially coming out of a department like Alberta or UBC. I'm not making this up—you can find former doctoral students on ProQuest/other databases, and very, very few of them have TT positions (though I can find one who is a yoga teacher now). The whole "if you're good enough" spiel belies the fact that academic hiring processes aren't fully based on merit. You can be a stellar candidate and scholar and still be passed over for reasons of prestige/networking/brand. The market is so swamped with qualified candidates right now that no one needs to look at all of the job applications, at least not carefully. It is really shitty, but a PhD from UBC or Alberta (Toronto is a mixed bag—they tend to do well with Early Modern/Medieval hires) is essentially a handicap. Roquentin mentions the idea of "selling your department," but really, in most cases you're not going to have an interview in the first place, so where are you supposed to sell the department? You're not going to utilize an application cover letter trying to compensate for your department, and really, you shouldn't have to "sell" it in the first place.

Obviously I am coming off as negative, but like I said, I don't intend to dissuade you from applying to Canadian schools—that's your decision. That being said, think very carefully about the decision. I am in a Canadian department right now, and whenever a TT job position opens it is filled by a candidate with an American PhD (Can-lit is different, but with 1-2 TT jobs a year it might as well be irrelevant anyhow). At the same time, you can look the lists of sessional faculty and find countless Canadian PhDs. It's brutally depressing, but it's the truth. Though it sucks to have to be the naysayer here, I'd rather people find this all out now, rather than finding it out after they have a PhD and they're stuck adjuncting somewhere for peanuts. 

[Roquentin]

(shrugs)

 

It’s the old prestige/merit argument. Obviously students should shoot for both, but the reality is that most new PhDs enter the job market without much/enough of either. Canada and the U.S. share the problem of having too many minor programs and too many students. The answer to the question “Should I go for a PhD in literature,” regardless of locale, is usually no. Stories that I have of Canadian PhDs finding work in the U.S. are anecdotal and, of course, the exception, as are stories that I have of Canadian PhDs finding work in Canada. It should go without saying that trying to make it on merit alone is perilous. That’s just the nature of the beast.

 

I raised the issue of tuition because it seems to me, a casual observer, that many U.S. programs offer tuition waivers as a major part of their support; other funding can be competitive and limited. I received comparatively generous offers from Canadian universities (more anecdotal evidence!). Regardless, no one in either country makes much more than a living wage.

 

(my apologies for going off topic, OP)