Experiences with these Comp/Rhetoric Programs?

[Ambermoon24]

Hello,

I'm finishing up my English undergrad at Oklahoma State University and I'll be applying for MA programs in Composition and Rhetoric in the spring. I'd like to stay in the Southwest, but I'm also willing to look at schools outside the region. I've developed a list of schools, and I'm interested in their academic environments and funding opportunities. If this would be helpful, here's a link to my current student profile on this site.  Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks! 

 

Regional List: 

University of Tulsa

Oklahoma State University

University of Oklahoma

Northeastern State University

University of Arkansas

University of Kansas

Texas Christian University 

Baylor University

Texas Tech University

Texas Woman's University

 

National List:

University of Pittsburgh

Findley University

University of Maryland, College Park

Hofstra University 

Carnegie Mellon University 

Edited June 9, 2014 by Litgirl23

[ProfLorax]

Hi LitGirl! I'm studying rhet/comp at the University of Maryland, College Park. Do you have any specific questions about the program? I'm happy to answer them!

[Ambermoon24]

Hi Proflorax,

Thanks for responding! Yes, I have a few questions. Do you feel the program is a balanced mix between academic writing and practical application (such as teaching in a writing center or providing opportunities for grad students to teach comp classes?) One aspect I really like about Oklahoma State is that if you are awarded an assistantship, I believe you start teaching your second year. It's really important me to have both researching and teaching opportunities early on. How do you feel about professors' involvement in your research? I'm looking for a program that emphasizes interdisciplinary approaches to research and one that recognizes the challenges of urban education since I'm interested in potentially working at an urban community college. And are students permitted some literature courses in addition to rhetoric classes? I'm not ready to totally give up literature courses, but I feel like a degree in comp and rhetoric would be far more marketable than a degree in literature. From what I can tell at OSU, there's not much overlap between general English and composition classes. I will be taking a more composition focused class in the fall from one of OSU's comp/rhetoric instructors, so I'm hoping that will give me a taste of what's to come. Last fall I took an advanced composition that was pedagogy oriented, and I really enjoyed it. Also, do you know Maryland's placement rates? 

Edited June 10, 2014 by Litgirl23

[ProfLorax]

Great questions! I'll answer them, but know that I do so from the perspective of a PhD student; I don't know as much about the MA program. 

 

• Do you feel the program is a balanced mix between academic writing and practical application (such as teaching in a writing center or providing opportunities for grad students to teach comp classes?)

 

Yes! We all (PhD students) teach starting year two. We have the opportunity to teach a handful of classes (101, intro to rhetorical theory, professional writing courses, digital writing, etc); plus, we can work and have administrative roles in the Academic Writing Program and Writing Center office. Pretty much all rhet/comp PhD students file through the AWP office as Assistant Director at some time.

 

• How do you feel about professors' involvement in your research?

I'm not sure what you mean by this question. They don't get too involved, in that we have pretty much control over what topics and questions we want to pursue (with guidance, of course), but that's the same as with most humanities programs. However, professors are all incredibly supportive. I workshopped a seminar paper from my first semester with the professor over the course of several months and submitted it for publication soon after. I'm still waiting to hear back, but that's an example of how from the beginning, professors support our growth as scholar-teachers through feedback, mentorship, and cheerleading. My main advisor has also sent me a deleted chapter from her book; she wants to know if I want to collaborate to digitize her research. More evidence about prof support: I am the only student studying disability studies, and even though no one (in any department!) does, my professors forward me anything DS-related and some even read DS texts alongside with me. 

• And are students permitted some literature courses in addition to rhetoric classes?

Definitely. Coming in with an MA, I had to take nine courses; only two courses were mandated, and I could take any other course I want for the remaining seven. The only downside of Maryland's program, actually, is the lack of rhet/comp coursework. I've only taken rhet/comp courses, but to do so required much creativity and persistence. Most rhet/comp grad students take a handful of lit courses, and the professors are supportive of students writing rhet-based seminar papers for those classes.

• Also, do you know Maryland's placement rates? 

I'll just copy and paste Jane's response via email when I asked the same question after accepted: "3. The job placement rate is nearly 100% for our Rhet/Comp students. We have placement in the last 10 years at Carnegie Mellon, Hunter College, Ohio State, Loyola in Baltimore, and Rutgers at Camden." The only recent grad I know who didn't have a job right away chose to take herself off the job market in the Fall after she found out she was pregnant (the first trimester makes doing most things super challenging!); she'll be back on the market this Fall, and I am very confident she'll perform well. 

[danieleWrites]

University of Arkansas has a rhet/comp program and a tech writing program.

If you are not offered an assistanceship, do not accept the offer. Rhet comp isn't just research, it's teaching!

I would suggest that you look at the rhet-comp faculty in the schools of interest, log onto JSTOR, and read their publications for the past few years. I would also suggest that you get in contact with these programs, if the information isn't in the graduate school catalog, and look at what the program requires and offers in terms of classes.

[bhr]

Here's what I know/my opinion:

 

Tech is the best of the bunch on your regional schools. Hugh Burns is at Texas Woman's, but that's about it for that program. The rest of this list is mid tier at best?

 

For the national list, Findlay has invested quite a bit recently, but doesn't have the rep you are looking for if you want to get into an elite PhD program. CMU used to be the big swinger, but they've dropped off. Maryland is good, but, as Proflorax sort of explained, they are an English program offering R/C.

[Ambermoon24]

Hi danieleWrites,

Thanks for your input, especially about the assistantship. I'm really looking for a program that emphasizes teaching, and your suggestion about utilizing JSTOR will be very helpful. I'm under a tight financial strain, so I won't be going to a program that doesn't offer me one. My situation isn't because of debt (I will graduate without owing money for my bachelor's degree), but I know the reality of job offerings after schooling, and I refuse to take on massive amounts of debt. 

 

Hi bhr, 

Thank you for responding. The reason I haven't included UT-Austin is that judging on my practice scores on the GRE, I don't think it's realistic to apply there. Unless I'm wrong, I thought I'd read the department typically admits students who score above the 90th percentile. I have major test anxiety and I've always been somewhat of an under performer on standardized tests. The rest of my application is strong, but I see the GRE holding me back. Also, it appears UT-Austin only offers a PhD, which because of finances and time, is not a viable option for me. It would be amazing to be accepted though.  

 

Finally, I did have a question for you both if you don't mind answering. I'm wanting to teach at a small state school or a community college, and I was wondering if any of these programs I've mentioned above emphasize pedagogy specifically for these types of institutions. There are marked differences between two year and four schools that I'm aware of since I've been a student in both, so I was wondering if these programs address them.  

[bhr]

Well, I honestly don't know. I'm just starting my MA myself, and while my end goal is a small teaching school rather than an R1, I didn't really spend too much time checking the difference. My own small state school has been on a hiring frenzy in recent years, with hires out of the PhD programs at Wayne State, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Indiana. The local CC meanwhile has a lot of M.Eds rather than PhD/MA hires. I would suggest, if you have a specific type of school in mind, going on their website and seeing where they are hiring from. The top handful of CCs in Maryland, for example, seem to show a lot of hires out of Maryland, Penn State, and WVU.

[ProfLorax]

Finally, I did have a question for you both if you don't mind answering. I'm wanting to teach at a small state school or a community college, and I was wondering if any of these programs I've mentioned above emphasize pedagogy specifically for these types of institutions. There are marked differences between two year and four schools that I'm aware of since I've been a student in both, so I was wondering if these programs address them.  

I find that many, if not all, rhet/comp programs emphasize pedagogy. I mean, that's a huge part of our field's ethos, right? We are all invested in teaching and teaching writing, and this directs much of our research, even if we aren't explicitly studying the classroom. I do think that any PhD program will push you to pursue research above teaching, and that's because the PhD is research degree.* Still, each and every rhet/comp program I've looked into (and that's a lot!) very much values teaching, and especially sub-fields like basic writing, language diversity, and student diversity, all topics that would prepare you for job search at a small state school and/or community college. 

 

*I just wanted to add that while, yes, PhD programs will emphasize research over teaching, the great thing about rhet/comp is that your research can be about teaching, and therefore, not be entirely separated from one other. We are a field teacher-scholars, and I love that. 

Edited June 11, 2014 by proflorax

[rhetoricus aesalon]

When I was looking into MA programs, I was in a very similar situation--I wanted to get teaching experience. Even though there is still absolutely a national-level bias toward fellowships that fund students without the "burden" of teaching, I think you're in good company in rhet/comp in valuing the kind of learning that can only happen when you're teaching in a classroom.

 

With that said, a number of years ago I was very close to going into TCU's MA program. Maybe things have changed since then, but it was made clear to me that it isn't legal for students who only hold a BA to teach at the college level in Texas--instead they are mostly funded with work in writing centers. This is fantastic experience, but if you are mainly looking for funding through a TAship, I would suggest looking more on the national level.

 

It's a small program (no PhD), but I highly recommend the institution where I got my MA in rhet/comp: Oregon State. From looking over your professional interests, I think it's worth looking into. They tend to admit no more than 6 rhet/comp students a year and only 3 of those are funded with a TAship (the others are funded with scholarships). Most students graduate from the program and teach at community colleges in the area, but there are also grads who go on to the biggest rhet/comp PhD programs in the country (Penn, Wisconsin, Purdue, Ohio, among others). Because the program is small and yet situated at an R1, there's huge potential to get what you want from the program.

 

I'm just graduating from the program ... oh, in 3 days!! ... so it's very fresh in my mind. If it might interest you, I'm happy to answer your questions or chat more. Good luck with the search!

Edited June 11, 2014 by Chadillac

[ProfLorax]

Thanks, Chad, for your response. I keep missing the "MA" part, and I agree, finding TAships in an MA program can be more challenging. You may want to check out the Funded MA thread here:  Though that thread is a mix of lit and rhet/comp programs, it may be a good place to start because these programs will primarily fund students through teaching opportunities. In addition to Oregon State, on the top of my head, Purdue and Miami of Ohio also tend to fund a handful of MA students through TAships. You may also want to consider applying to programs like Penn State and University of Illinois at UC, which offer funded MA's, but as feeder programs to their PhD programs. 

[bhr]

Thanks, Chad, for your response. I keep missing the "MA" part, and I agree, finding TAships in an MA program can be more challenging. You may want to check out the Funded MA thread here:  Though that thread is a mix of lit and rhet/comp programs, it may be a good place to start because these programs will primarily fund students through teaching opportunities. In addition to Oregon State, on the top of my head, Purdue and Miami of Ohio also tend to fund a handful of MA students through TAships. You may also want to consider applying to programs like Penn State and University of Illinois at UC, which offer funded MA's, but as feeder programs to their PhD programs. 

 

As a just-entering MA, I can definitely understand the funding search side of things. I will say that all of my acceptances eventually came with funding (mostly full), but I had to wait it out for the PhD money to shake loose. Programs I know that have funding, via TA/RA/GA slots:

 

 

Purdue (guaranteed funding with acceptance)

Ohio State

Michigan State

Michigan

Penn State

Michigan Tech

Minnesota

ECU (Full funding only includes in-state tuition, no waiver for out of state)

Washington State (Proflorax and I were just there, it's a pretty area and an exciting program)

West Virginia

Arizona State

University of Washington

Syracuse

Clemson

NC State

IUPUI

Iowa State

 

I can't vouch for the amount of funding at each school, but they all offer some funded MA slots. The bigger the university, the better your chance of getting funding, from my experience, as there is an increased need for TAs.

[bhr]

*Forgot Florida State

** Ohio State is an MA/PhD

[ComeBackZinc]

Second the Oregon State rec.

[ProfLorax]

bhr, that's a wonderful list! We'll have to remember it's here for future rhet/comp MA applicants with similar questions. 

 

To everyone else: bhr and I met this weekend at Computers and Writing. We hugged. It was magical. 

 

Back to the OP: Okay, now that I have my thinking cap on, I have to agree that UMD is not a great fit for you. I actually like that it's in the English Department, but in general, our MA program tends to be unfunded and specifically geared for people who want to prepare for a PhD program, which means lots of research and absolutely no teaching. The PhD program, however, is great, if you decide to pursue another degree when you're done! I imagine Pitt and Carnegie Mellon are the same, especially since both websites do not mention funding in the form of TA'ships. Typically, no funding means no teaching. Also note that the MA in Rhetoric at Hofstra is in the Communication Studies department. From my experience teaching at a CC, it's MUCH easier to get a job teaching writing with an MA in English; hiring committees tend to favor the ease of applicants who don't have to go through the equivalency process. However, if you want to teach public speaking, then an MA in Communications could open up those doors. 

 

Another program to add to the list: George Mason University has only recently starting offering an MA and PhD in Writing/Rhetoric; they mention GTA'ships, but they don't specify if they are intended for all grad students or just PhD students. If you are interested in the DMV area, you may want to check out more specifically how they fund MA students! 

[bhr]

bhr, that's a wonderful list! We'll have to remember it's here for future rhet/comp MA applicants with similar questions. 

 

To everyone else: bhr and I met this weekend at Computers and Writing. We hugged. It was magical. 

 

Back to the OP: Okay, now that I have my thinking cap on, I have to agree that UMD is not a great fit for you. I actually like that it's in the English Department, but in general, our MA program tends to be unfunded and specifically geared for people who want to prepare for a PhD program, which means lots of research and absolutely no teaching. The PhD program, however, is great, if you decide to pursue another degree when you're done! I imagine Pitt and Carnegie Mellon are the same, especially since both websites do not mention funding in the form of TA'ships. Typically, no funding means no teaching. Also note that the MA in Rhetoric at Hofstra is in the Communication Studies department. From my experience teaching at a CC, it's MUCH easier to get a job teaching writing with an MA in English; hiring committees tend to favor the ease of applicants who don't have to go through the equivalency process. However, if you want to teach public speaking, then an MA in Communications could open up those doors. 

 

Another program to add to the list: George Mason University has only recently starting offering an MA and PhD in Writing/Rhetoric; they mention GTA'ships, but they don't specify if they are intended for all grad students or just PhD students. If you are interested in the DMV area, you may want to check out more specifically how they fund MA students! 

 

I'm a little ashamed that I forgot George Mason, as I spent a lot of time with a couple of their profs this week. They have MA funding, I believe, but I was led to believe that it is on the low side, stipend-wise, and that's an expensive area.

[Ambermoon24]

Thank you for all of your responses! I've been doing a lot of thinking lately, and I'm leaning toward only applying to schools in state. Most of the professors teaching at two year colleges and also those at small state universities received their MAs and PhDs in state. I'm also worried about out of state tuition since I'm under very tight financial limits. I haven't totally eliminated out of state schools, and I'll have to give it more thought, but I'm not sure trying for a highly competitive program is well suited to my long-term goals of teaching at a small state institution focusing on composition instruction. Thoughts? 

[bhr]

One of the reason that top programs are top programs is that they place such a high percentage of their graduates in tenure track jobs. Those jobs aren't always at R1s, however, as those graduates still are left to the vagaries of the job market, but they also get more choice in where they wind up. My small state school where I did my BS, for example, has made four Comp/Rhet hires in recent years. They came from Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Wright State, but all chose our school over other options.

 

Don't get me wrong, you've got a decent program in-state at OSU, and it would be wise to apply there as well, but limiting yourself to state schools doesn't make you a better candidate for in-state jobs. Now, I will say that your concern about in-state tuition is slightly valid. I had one program that offered me "full funding" but not in-state tuition, as that was the best they could do for their MA. That isn't usually the case, however, as, if you get funded, you usually get the in-state waiver as well.

 

One thing to consider, especially if you are looking to work at a 2-year school, is to get your MA from the best program you can get into, they see about finding a teaching job while working on your PhD remotely at UT-A or ODU.

[rhetoricus aesalon]

All schools will have different interpretations of what it means to be "fully funded," but in general you will not pay much for a graduate degree if you are funded in any program. Of course, funding is usually better for PhD students over MA students, but there are many funded programs out there for MA students.

 

Proflorax offered a good resource to start your search, and another might be the Rhetoric Review Survey of Doctoral Programs in Rhetoric and Composition, linked here: http://rhetoricreviewsurvey.wikia.com/wiki/Rhetoric_Review_Survey_of_Doctoral_Programs_in_Rhetoric_and_Composition_Wiki . The wiki is new (at least it is to me--I've only seen the journal's published version online), but it does at least give you the opportunity to sense the type of funding programs will have--though, keep in mind the listed information and stipends are for PhD students. It's quite a bit faster than looking at each school's individual website, but that's going to be your best bet for up-to-date and specific information on funding.

[lcampb]

Don't get me wrong, you've got a decent program in-state at OSU, and it would be wise to apply there as well, but limiting yourself to state schools doesn't make you a better candidate for in-state jobs...

 

One thing to consider, especially if you are looking to work at a 2-year school, is to get your MA from the best program you can get into, they see about finding a teaching job while working on your PhD remotely at UT-A or ODU.

While I agree with bhr that if your end goal is to teach at a four-year institution, you might want to expand your search beyond in-state schools, I don't think the argument that the highest ranking institution is the best option necessarily holds true for community college jobs. I know in my state at least (at it sounds like you're finding this to be the case as well), there is something to be said for the networking that happens between in-state MA programs and community colleges. Many community colleges hire graduates from Western Washington's MA program, for example, and so I could see advantages to being in a program that's well-known locally over a more highly ranked institution, depending on your goals.

[ProfLorax]

I agree with lcampb as well. In California, community colleges in particular prefer candidates from local institutions. Why? Because they are more likely to have experience teaching a similar student demographic. I think it's fine to stick with in-state programs, but see if you can find ones that offer teaching experience. The other thing to realize that is with CC teaching, you WILL adjunct for some years before finding a full-time gig. So while the degree is important, at least in my experience teaching at the CC-level, having teaching and service experience will be even more important for securing a full-time position. 

[Ambermoon24]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your responses! It's been very helpful to read different perspectives. I have wondered myself if branching out to a more prestigious program might make me overqualified for the institutions I want to be employed at, so it's reassuring to see that others feel a local program might suit my career goals better. One thing that's been kind of strange about my current program is there seems to be a lack of understanding of a community college environment and the reasons why a student might want to eventually teach there. As a student who transferred from a cc, it's kind of surprising to me. But maybe this is typical of most research institutions? There seems to be a stronger emphasis at OSU on encouraging students to apply to higher ranked grad schools and later teach at large four year schools, so I feel like I'm in the minority essentially wanting to "return to my roots." 

 

So now, it looks like I'm back at reviewing my in-state list, and I'm thinking of a school that's not even ranked like OSU, OU, and TU. The reason I'm thinking about it as an option is that one of my cc professors went to school there and really respected the program for "teaching you to actually teach."  Other professors earned their masters' degrees there, and it hasn't seemed to have hurt them. But I'm still unsure since Northeastern State University is not research focused like OSU and appears to have a smaller program. They also don't offer a seperate degree in Composition and Rhetoric, only a concentration of courses. NSU is well respected in the state for its education programs, so maybe there's some overlap with the English department and that would explain the high number of NSU grads teaching at this particular cc. 

Edited July 2, 2014 by Litgirl23

[bhr]

Part of the reason that I, and I think many others, recommend big national programs is that they 1) have funding available for MAs (unlike a lot of schools) and 2) They give you the pick of programs when you are applying for jobs. I find it hard to believe that an MA from a top 10 program will somehow leave you "overqualified" for a job.

[ComeBackZinc]

Indeed, I don't think there's such a thing as overqualified in the academic job market anymore. People with Ivy League lit degrees find work as 4/4 instructors with no tenure track. It happens all the time.

[rhetoricus aesalon]

I agree. I don't feel like other programs will make you overqualified. Though, it might be easier (i.e. more cost efficient) for networking with these schools to stay in Oklahoma--especially as you attend local conferences in the area. Another thing you might look into is what you need in order to be qualified to start teaching in the area. In Oregon, I was offered the opportunity to teach at a local CC after my first year of grad school--without a degree in hand--because I had completed a certain amount of graduate coursework in the area I'd teach, so this might be another reason you decide to stay in the area.

 

But my strongest recommendation is to find a program that will fund you. For me, this would be the first priority--even over location of the program. Funded programs will often offer you funds to travel to attend conferences, so you can still network in the area even if you're not living there. Plus, you will not be tens of thousands of dollars in debt for a job that may or may not pan out in the end.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Chadillac