Credentials of Competitive Applicants

[someth1ng]

Hey guys,

 

I'm pretty keen on going to graduate school after my degree (BScAdv) in Australia (University of Sydney) - currently in second year (three year degree+full year honours by research). I was wondering what would make my application competitive at top tier universities in the US.

 

Currently, I have about a semester of research but it wasn't in chemistry (physics education research) - better than nothing, I guess. Right now, I'm trying to get a position in a lab as a volunteer at my school (hopefully, I can fit in 3 semesters of research) and also applying for study abroad, year in industry (where you work for a lab for a whole year - the degree effectively pauses), and summer research scholarships (6 weeks only though but I might be able to volunteer after the 6 weeks).

 

Based on WES conversions, my GPA (converted to US) would be about 3.48 overall but my chemistry GPA would be 4.0 (all A+ equivalent, apparently).

 

Do you think I will be competitive if I got a couple of years of research experience?

[loginofpscl]

I suggest you find one lab you really like and stick with it-- this is also the most likely way you'll get published. Adcoms value consistency and commitment in undergrad applicants. Continue making a 4.0 in Chemistry and you'll be well position to apply to a top tier school!

[someth1ng]

I suggest you find one lab you really like and stick with it-- this is also the most likely way you'll get published. Adcoms value consistency and commitment in undergrad applicants. Continue making a 4.0 in Chemistry and you'll be well position to apply to a top tier school!

Thanks for your suggestions, I might have two professors willing to take me on: one in physical organic chemistry (chirality, organic solar cells) and one in organic synthesis (catalysis, organic synthesis) except the latter is on a research sabbatical until next year.

 

I guess the best thing to do is take on the physical organic chemistry and see if I like it? I am interested in it and I do consider it a potential pathway, perhaps I might even like it. Currently, I do have a preference for organic synthesis so I will definitely contact the second professor if I don't like physical organic chemistry so much.

 

Something I'd like to ask is, how long should I stay in a lab to determine whether it is something I like?

[loginofpscl]

If you feel unmotivated to get up in the morning to jump into the lab to actually work on your project, then that's a sign you should be looking for other opportunities. If you do choose to leave that lab, it would be nice if you could wrap your results thus far up somehow (poster, presentation, or even paper), and talk to your PI early about doing so. While it may be advantageous for you as a student, I'm sure it's a mixed bag for PIs and he'd appreciate notice well in advance. This way you don't burn any bridges and can secure a decent letter of recommendation.

 

It sounds like you'll be working with the POChemist for at least a year, since you don't really have much of a choice. Eight months from now, reconsider whether you'd like to stay and take it from there.

[someth1ng]

Yeah, I think you're right - I'll probably be there for some time. It really can't be that bad - there hasn't really been anything in chemistry that I haven't enjoyed, yet - probably why it's hard for me to determine what I like.

I've always wondered, when people say they have given a talk/presentation, what makes it count as a "talk"? Is it at some conference or can it just be a talk given to several academics?

Edited July 7, 2014 by someth1ng

[loginofpscl]

Usually it's organized by a larger society, or the university itself. I don't think group meetings or senior presentations count for much, but if you present at a University-level 'Undergraduate Symposium', or any meeting of Sigma Xi, the ACS, the MRS, the ECS, ASME, etc... that would count.

[someth1ng]

Hmmm, not sure what mine counts as - it wasn't a class thing, it was a research program for "high achievers" and my talk was a part of 20 or so others from mine and other years. It was university level though.

Edited July 7, 2014 by someth1ng

[Vene]

Hmmm, not sure what mine counts as - it wasn't a class thing, it was a research program for "high achievers" and my talk was a part of 20 or so others from mine and other years.

Sounds like something you could mention in a sentence or two in a SOP.

[someth1ng]

Which is more important, overall GPA or major GPA?

[Vene]

I kind of assume both matter to some degree, but if you overall is a little low and your major is high it's probably better than the reverse. But I wouldn't worry because your overall looks fine.

[someth1ng]

I kind of assume both matter to some degree, but if you overall is a little low and your major is high it's probably better than the reverse. But I wouldn't worry because your overall looks fine.

Hmm...I would imagine so. The only reason I ask is that my overall GPA went down a bit, for this semester, I did poorly in one subject ("History of Science", C, 58%), got A+ in two chemistry units (86%, 87%), and a B in a geoscience unit. There's no grade inflation at this university - so those are basically raw marks.

[geographyrocks]

Hmm...I would imagine so. The only reason I ask is that my overall GPA went down a bit, for this semester, I did poorly in one subject ("History of Science", C, 58%), got A+ in two chemistry units (86%, 87%), and a B in a geoscience unit. There's no grade inflation at this university - so those are basically raw marks.

It's interesting to see how different grading policies are in different countries. For instance, a 58% would be a failing grade here.

Generally, your major gpa is considered more important.

[someth1ng]

It's interesting to see how different grading policies are in different countries. For instance, a 58% would be a failing grade here.

Generally, your major gpa is considered more important.

Yeah, that's interesting. Out of curiosity, where is this? The thing about Australia and that essays are marked pretty hard - average is typically around 65%. In fact, that average is what it is for every subject (or at least, what it's supposed to be). Basically, in Australia, you get High Distinction (Best), Distinction, Credit, and Pass (worst excluding Fail) and only ~3% get HD, ~15% get D, 35% get C and the rest get P or F so it's pretty competitive.

[geographyrocks]

By here, I mean the US. I have no idea how international grades translate to the US scale. I doubt a lower grade in a history class will really affect how they view your application.

[someth1ng]

By here, I mean the US. I have no idea how international grades translate to the US scale. I doubt a lower grade in a history class will really affect how they view your application.

Ah of course lol.

 

Yeah, Australia has a pretty different system. In particular, we have absolutely no grade inflation so at most universities, the mark you get in the exam and assessments (weighted) is your final mark - no adjustments made. The low marks I got were from courses called "Introduction to History of Science: The Birth of Modern Science" (58) and "Earth, Environment and Society" (64). Quite irrelevant to my major, lol. But yeah, hopefully those marks won't adversely affect my applications, I'd be quite disappointed if they did.

[MarcusPhcerius]

Ah of course lol.

 

Yeah, Australia has a pretty different system. In particular, we have absolutely no grade inflation so at most universities, the mark you get in the exam and assessments (weighted) is your final mark - no adjustments made. The low marks I got were from courses called "Introduction to History of Science: The Birth of Modern Science" (58) and "Earth, Environment and Society" (64). Quite irrelevant to my major, lol. But yeah, hopefully those marks won't adversely affect my applications, I'd be quite disappointed if they did.

I would assume that the letter grade you got for these courses in your system would be the grades that would be shown on your transcript (i.e. you said you got a C+ and a B, so these would be a 2.3 and 3.0)...the reason I say this is that the marks from my university were such that an 85 in a course was a 4.0, or an A...any A, or A+ (90+) were still considered 4.0 when applying to the US. The 3.48 overall GPA is not super high, but the 4.0 chem GPA is ideal, and you may want to ask any of your professors if you should bother mentioning the discrepancy in your statement of purpose/intent. If they say yes, describe your absolute dedication and motivation to chemistry and the desire to understand the material prior to conducting research, but if they say that it is not important, I would not draw attention to your overall GPA. This of course is a minor caveat, and shouldn't make or break your application. What schools are you interested in applying to/what type of chemistry are you mainly interested in pursuing?

[someth1ng]

I would assume that the letter grade you got for these courses in your system would be the grades that would be shown on your transcript (i.e. you said you got a C+ and a B, so these would be a 2.3 and 3.0)...the reason I say this is that the marks from my university were such that an 85 in a course was a 4.0, or an A...any A, or A+ (90+) were still considered 4.0 when applying to the US. The 3.48 overall GPA is not super high, but the 4.0 chem GPA is ideal, and you may want to ask any of your professors if you should bother mentioning the discrepancy in your statement of purpose/intent. If they say yes, describe your absolute dedication and motivation to chemistry and the desire to understand the material prior to conducting research, but if they say that it is not important, I would not draw attention to your overall GPA. This of course is a minor caveat, and shouldn't make or break your application. What schools are you interested in applying to/what type of chemistry are you mainly interested in pursuing?

Well, Australian universities don't use the same letter grades (not A/B/C/D/F), we use High Distinction, Distinction, Credit, Pass and Fail.

 

My conversions were based on this: http://www.wes.org/gradeconversionguide/index.asp (Australia, of course!)

 

I think when applying, I just include the Australian transcript - the universities should know how they rate compared to their own degrees (hopefully). But yeah, when I start getting the applications together, I'll get that done. I still have 2.5 years of undergrad left to go so I have a fair bit of time but it's always good to prepare. Cheers for the advice

[someth1ng]

I did one of the GRE chemistry practice exams to try it out and I can see why grad schools don't put much weight into it...lol...lots of questions seem very random. Got 96/130 correct (no preparation) - there was quite a lot of stuff that I havent covered at uni but I think I'm still on track.

 

Though, based on that exam, I should take a course in quantum chemistry lol.

Edited July 20, 2014 by someth1ng

[loginofpscl]

If that's the case, just keep reviewing as you take your quantum courses and you'll be fine. Schools will pay closer attention to your c/GREs and GPA because you're international!

[someth1ng]

If that's the case, just keep reviewing as you take your quantum courses and you'll be fine. Schools will pay closer attention to your c/GREs and GPA because you're international!

Yeah, considering I have at least another two and a half years to go (one of those years is full time research for honours and is effectively compulsory), I should have a decent amount of experience when I graduate (I might also take a year off to work in industry), and there's still a lot to learn (almost half of the units in my degree are chemistry units). How high should my GRE be if I'm aiming for a top program? Stanford is the dream but I understand that it is quite a stretch - I'm also considering Princeton, UChicago, and Duke (that is, if I can find a couple of professors at these universities which I will do later - they could change anyway).

[geographyrocks]

If you really want those top tier programs, you generally need >160 on both verbal and quantitative.  It's not that the GRE even means that much, but the top programs tend to have higher cutoffs mostly because so many top candidates apply.  I would advise you to look for professors whose research matches your own interests over the reputation of the school.  If you have to stretch to make their research fit with yours, it's unlikely you will get an acceptance.  I've reached this conclusion from the many (too many) hours I've spent on gradcafe. 

[someth1ng]

Yes, that's what I meant by looking at professors - if I cannot find a suitable professor, I won't apply to those schools. They are just the current preference and will change accordingly. I will also be applying to some Australian universities (ANU/UniMelb). Personally, I'd like to find reputable universities as well as a suitable professor to make going over there worth it.

[someth1ng]

So I'm starting research soon but need some literature review but I find it pretty hard to understand the papers that I'm reading. Any advice? It's in chiral pi-conjugated polymers.