Should I change adviser (PI)?

[Marvin_Renteria]

HI,

 

I'm starting my third year of Ph.D in Chemistry. I have been in a very productive group and published 4 papers and still have some unpublished material. Right now, I'm preparing for my oral examinations. However, my adviser run out of money, we were moved to a smaller lab, and I am the last person working in his lab (before there were around 12 people). Fortunately, I have a great fellowship , so I do not have to worry about teaching. My adviser is actively searching for other jobs and I know he is going to an interview to another university next week. Also the relationship student-adviser is bad, although he is happy with my advance sometimes he is abusive (review the submitted articles he is supposed to review, do all kinds of administrative work, does not want me to go to conferences, internships,etc) and I tend to do not say anything about it. He was used to disappear form the lab for several weeks from the lab and not doing anything (no submitted grants,etc). 

 

Recently I  told him all that and we yell me and we both were very angry. At then end we did not get to any agreement, he just simply refused to see all his errors, and take responsibility for the reduction in people and space of the lab. Also for personal reasons (family) I am not willing to move to another university if he gets a job some where else.

 

I do not know what to do, if search for another adviser after obtaining Ph.D candidacy? or wait until he leaves if he gets another job? Because If I change adviser, I may need to change other people from my committee since two of them are their friends.  

 

Thanks in advance for your time and advice

[fuzzylogician]

I don't know what the process in your school is like, exactly, but it seems to me that it is both very unlikely and inadvisable for your to finish your PhD in your advisor's lab. He ran out of money, is actively looking for another job, and has a small and diminishing group, which I assume will also reflect on his publication rate and perhaps on the quality of any reference letter you could get from him. If he is not tenured, I am sure that this difficult time will cause him great problems. Unless things change radically, he is unlikely to get tenure. It sounds like he is (rightfully, from his perspective) concentrating on salvaging his own career, and less on his students. You probably didn't need to have that conversation that you describe--I can't imagine reacting well to my student kicking me while I'm down, pointing out all the problems I am having and criticizing my decisions, since it's really not their place. However, the problem is bigger than this conversation. Your leaving will hurt him, but you need to take care of your own interests, and that includes being in a active and productive lab that will still be there a few years from now, and having an advisor who is doing well and has a good reputation.

 

For all of these reasons, I think you need to change advisors at some point. Whether it's better to do it now or later is harder to tell. My instinct is to say you should do it as early as possible, to allow yourself the most time to settle into a new lab and get started with new projects, but I understand that for technical reasons changing now may not be ideal. I suggest you talk about this with someone at your school. You can probably find out about the technical aspects of switching labs from the administrative assistant in your department or from the Director of Graduate Studies. You could also ask the other students who left your lab how they went about doing that. It's also going to matter what your new advisor thinks, so if there is someone whose lab you want to switch into, I suggest you talk to them about it and get their help figuring out how and when to switch. 

[Marvin_Renteria]

Thanks for your response fuzzylogician. I really appreciate your advice. He is already a full professor, in the past he was able to bring an enormous amount of money and publish several publications in a short amount of time. 

 

I though the conversation was going to help. Right now, he seems motivated and willing to write grants and all that. However, I am not sure how long this motivation will last. Furthermore, since I am the only member I basically have to do lots of experiments, since he is very hands off in this aspect and never does any experiment. 

 

I have not talk with anyone from my department yet because I am sure in the first moment I say something, he will know it immediately. My plan was to pass my orals, publish the work that needs to be written and re-evaluate and decide. However, I am not sure how long I am willing to pass through all this problems.

 

Thanks!

[St Andrews Lynx]

The first thing to think about is which research group you will change into. Are there PIs at your current school whose research areas are close to yours - perhaps other members of your committee? And is their funding situation better? Would changing your PI affect your fellowship (i.e., do you have to work with this PI on a particular project?). Think about the options that are available to you.

 

It might be better to wait until after your quals when you become a PhD candidate, since the knowledge that you want to leave is unlikely to make your PI supportive of your candidacy. Or the alternative is to change groups now, and perhaps delay your quals by 6 months to get results in the new group. A new PI would have to approve your Quals research proposal, wouldn't they? 

 

It sounds like a rough situation, and I'm not sure if there's a way out that isn't going to be painful or difficult or lead to hurt feelings. 

[Marvin_Renteria]

I have other three PI options, their funding is better for all of them. None of them is full professor though. Changing PI would not change anything about my fellowship, other than paper work. 

 

I guess I will wait until my qualifiers, that are in about two months. After that I do not know what to do, if to burn the bridge and change PI. Or wait until I publish everything and he leaves, this way the bad of the story would be him and not me. What do you think? 

 

Thanks for your help and response

[fuzzylogician]

I have other three PI options, their funding is better for all of them. None of them is full professor though. Changing PI would not change anything about my fellowship, other than paper work. 

Not full professors, but tenured associate professors or untenuerd assistant professors? That would make a big difference.

 

 

I guess I will wait until my qualifiers, that are in about two months. After that I do not know what to do, if to burn the bridge and change PI. Or wait until I publish everything and he leaves, this way the bad of the story would be him and not me. What do you think? 

If it's two months away you could do your quals and then look into changing advisors, but I don't know if it makes sense to wait for your PI to leave. I'd say you could take this semester to deal with quals and writing up publications, but by the second half of your third year you should be starting to seriously think about your dissertation project. Suppose it takes your advisor another year to find another job and leave--that would put you in the beginning of fourth year scrambling to find a new advisor and thesis topic. Suppose he doesn't find a new place this year but only next year--then you'll already be in your fifth year! The more advanced you are in the program, the more difficult it will be for someone to take over as your advisor and for you to finish a dissertation project on time. 

 

I worry that there is more to this story than you're telling us (or than you know). Full professors don't just lose their entire research group and funding out of the blue for no reason, and they don't get re-motivated to write grants for no reason. I'd suspect serious life or health problems that have led to this situation. Is there no way for you to discreetly talk to some of the former students from your lab and find out what they think is going on? Talking to other students is not something that should alarm your PI. 

[Marvin_Renteria]

Thanks fuzzylogician, yes all my options are in tenure track, weather or not they will get tenure I am not sure (I hope they do).

 

It is hard to recognize it for me, but your totally right it is just a matter of time until he leaves. I will do that, finish all this semester. 

 

I am not sure how does this helps, but he is single and  around 50 years old. I believe he suffers some form of depression but is under medication. There is too much hidden that I do not even know. The thing is he hides all this from me, and he always tells me we are fine and we still have money and funding. But of course we do not, otherwise our group would be bigger, or we would have a better lab space.

 

Thanks for reading and always helping me, I need to get away from him before is too late