Americans in Sweden

[Lev Bronstein]

I've been looking at a Masters program at Lund University in Sweden. They have a young scholar doing some awesome work in my discipline. How does Lund compare to some US universities? Is it a Swedish Berkeley or UNC? Or is it more like Indiana or Iowa? I'm wondering if its totally out of my league.

[efagerho]

I can tell you that admissions to Scandinavian universities aren't even near the level of difficulty compared to their US counterparts. I would assume that if you have OK grades, you're pretty much guaranteed a spot. For e.g. Ph.D. positions there are no admissions committees or anything like that, you just find someone who wants to be your adviser (by for example e-mailing and asking, but this is the only tricky part) and the professor pretty much just submits a request to the department secretary to register you as a student.

I haven't really looked at the Master's programs, because they are relatively new (i.e. don't know if there is any tuition to pay), but as people in Scandinavia automatically apply to a Master's right out of high school (you get the Bachelor's on the way), they are seen as undergraduate degrees by the government. What this means is that you can probably apply for government funding. At least in Finland any university student whether foreign or not, gets paid about 500 euros a month for the privilege of studying. I would assume Sweden has a pretty similar practice as they are the real social democratic haven and usually have "better" government benefits.

What you'll also see is that most student don't work nearly as hard as in the best schools in the US. This has to do with the fact that a small population means you'll see a much greater gap between the quality of the students. In the US, the best students go to the best schools, but here they still go to the same schools as pretty much everyone else, because the strong students just don't fill even nearly all the slots. This means that courses are often easier, so as a motivated student, it's usually a good idea to ask the professors for extra readings beyond the requirements. Most are eager to help and this is also the best way to start a Ph.D.

Hope this helps.

[BlueSwedeShoes]

I'm sorry to quote and bring up a post that is a few months old, but, with all due respect, most of it is wrong and misleading.

I can tell you that admissions to Scandinavian universities aren't even near the level of difficulty compared to their US counterparts. I would assume that if you have OK grades, you're pretty much guaranteed a spot. For e.g. Ph.D. positions there are no admissions committees or anything like that, you just find someone who wants to be your adviser (by for example e-mailing and asking, but this is the only tricky part) and the professor pretty much just submits a request to the department secretary to register you as a student.

No, you're not guaranteed a spot with ok grades. For undergrad level it varies a lot depending on program, school and other factors such as the current economic downturn which has increased the number of applicants significantly. Since we're talking grad schools here; no, there's no admissions committee, no GRE's or anything like that. It's like a job. You contact a business you want to work with (i.e. a school and professor you would like to work with) and if they have funding (to spare), time and no other interested applicants that look better than you in their resume/CV you might get lucky and get an interview!

While simpler, not necessarily easier. And guaranteed spot? Forget it. Many, many Swedish students try every year to get a PhD position but fail. Why would an American then be guaranteed a spot?

I haven't really looked at the Master's programs, because they are relatively new (i.e. don't know if there is any tuition to pay), but as people in Scandinavia automatically apply to a Master's right out of high school (you get the Bachelor's on the way), they are seen as undergraduate degrees by the government. What this means is that you can probably apply for government funding. At least in Finland any university student whether foreign or not, gets paid about 500 euros a month for the privilege of studying. I would assume Sweden has a pretty similar practice as they are the real social democratic haven and usually have "better" government benefits.

All in the above post is wrong. While it was true about 3 years ago that Swedish students generally applied to a 4-year master program right out of high school, the so called Bologna-process has changed all that. The Bologna model is supposed to make all European (rather, EU) educations comparable, and has brought with it a lot of changes to Sweden. You now typically apply for a 3 year bachelors program first, and then you can apply to a 2 year (terminal) Masters program after that. PhD, again, is a separate process and more like an employment than an educational program.

State funding? No, sorry. While Sweden has no tuition fees at any level, they don't give a dime or nickel to foreign students. In fact, due to the last election resulting in a more right-leaning government, they are now contemplating making all foreign students pay a tuition fee as well. While I personally believe it will hurt Sweden more than help it, that's how it is.

For a PhD-position however, you're normally paid a normal salary, since it is, as I've previously mentioned, more like a job position than a position in a educational program.

What you'll also see is that most student don't work nearly as hard as in the best schools in the US. This has to do with the fact that a small population means you'll see a much greater gap between the quality of the students. In the US, the best students go to the best schools, but here they still go to the same schools as pretty much everyone else, because the strong students just don't fill even nearly all the slots. This means that courses are often easier, so as a motivated student, it's usually a good idea to ask the professors for extra readings beyond the requirements. Most are eager to help and this is also the best way to start a Ph.D.

Right, we're just chilling here not doing much work because, hey, we got a dumb general public who we stupidly offer free higher education rather than weed out the top 5% and therefor dumb down everything in a "No University Level Student Left Behind"-policy....right...

Ok, seriously though. It used to be that 1 Swedish academic "credit" was equal to a workload of 1 week of 40 hours of work. Due to Bologna, it's now 1.5 credits to 1 week a 40 hours of work, don't ask me why. With this come the two 20 week terms. So at a normal university you have two 20 week terms with each week being 40 hours (8 hours a day) worth of work, as you're expected to take 20 credits per term (now 30 credits per term). I can't speak much for a PhD level, but apart from grad classes, TA'ing and conducting research, you're employed like a normal employee at the university, so don't expect less than 40 hours a week. Which, of course, might be what efagerho meant with "don't work nearly as hard as in the best schools in the US".

Courses are easier? I can only speak from my experience, but my year at an American college was like revisiting high school. I breezed through with 21 credit hours per semester (= 21 hours per week for 15 weeks, which was "overload" by 2 credits at the college but still far less than what was required of me in Sweden), while working 15 hours per week extra just to fill some time and earn some money. 4.0 GPA. Classes ranging from 100 to 400-level, and my major was Psychology/Neuroscience. Also had the time to be involved in a number of extra-curricular activities, fraternities and organizations as well as do some independent research with one of the professors for a work that ended up being a poster presentation at a major science conference.

In short; Sweden is easier, lazier and less time? Bullcrap.

To be objective though, depending on what you study there is more or less scheduled time. Technical areas are likely to have far more scheduled time (often ca 8 hours per day), while the humanities may have just a few lectures per week. The independent reading you're supposed to do, along with assignments and reports, however, will most likely fill your time just fine.

Also, I understand that "the best" American schools (I'm guessing those "top-ten" ranked ones) often require you to do insane amounts of work and I frequently hear people complain about spending 60 hours per week working. Well, if that's your benchmark and what you're used to, good for you. You'll probably find Sweden easy then.

If anyone else has questions about Sweden or the Swedish educational system, just ask away. I'm from Sweden, I study at a Masters-level program, I have studied in the States and my American fianc