Advice for Prospective PhD Student

[fin56]

Greetings!

I am seeking advice as I venture into the world of further education. I am applying next fall and have a few ideas I would love to run by this forum. Please excuse the blunt nature in which I present this information, but I have no persons currently whom I can casually run these ideas by who are "in the know."

 

The application:

- I have a BA (top tier) 3.67 in English, M.Div (middle-tier) 3.65. I have excellent letters of recommendation from notable professors and an interesting/well-rounded resume, no publishing yet and no GRE score. I am also ordained.

- Long-term, I see myself as a poet-pastor-scholar, serving in one or multiple of the following options: congregation, theological/seminary education, professor track, writer. I hope to publish regularly for academic and community audiences. I have a strong SOP.

- Language-wise, I have Latin, Koine Greek, Spanish, and can minimally read French. I will be taking intro German next year before beginning a program.

- Strong writing sample edited by professors.

- My area of interest is the intersection of poetry and theology in the 19th and 20th century in the US and UK, with particular emphasis on a few poet-priests. While I am considering still a few programs in English, the religion departments are more suitable for the questions, teaching, and community I seek. 

 

I am thinking of applying to the following PhD programs:

 

Definitely:

Duke (religion and modernity)

Cambridge (potential supervisor)

St. Andrew's (potential supervisor)

 

As well as perhaps (though I know less about these programs):

UNC-CH

Stanford

Union

Cornell

Brown

Columbia

Emory

Oxford

Harvard

Princeton

UChicago

UVA

Vanderbilt

Notre Dame

 

I am also seriously considering going to Yale Div for an STM and getting a solid PhD application together there while I am actually in school. Does anyone in the ether have any basic feedback for me? How might I best BEGIN the process of moving toward graduate school? I am beginning to find supervisor contacts at these schools, but must admit I am greatly intimidated by the whole process. Nevertheless, I venture forward!

 

Warm regards and many thanks.

 

-Fin56

 

[theophany]

Your application seems pretty sound from how you describe it. Obviously, for many of the programs you've listed GRE is going to be an important hoop, but really they only care about the verbal, and given your background I'd say that's not going to be a huge issue.

 

Given your interests, I'd say your list of "definitely" sounds right, with one question. At Duke would you be applying to the ThD or the PhD? Your project sounds more in line with the ThD there than with the PhD, and Duke is known for being concerned with the distinction between projects that belong in the divinity school versus ones that belong in the graduate department of religion. As far as Cambridge and St. Andrew's go, if you're an American, it's going to be a bit harder of a case to go to the UK for a PhD/DPhil and to come back and teach; UK schools have the reputation for admitting American students as cash cows, and their PhDs are less rigorous and holistic than is an American PhD—writing a dissertation vs. coursework, exams, teaching, and dissertation. I might suggest for any UK schools you're considering to apply to an MPhil and then move into the PhD/DPhil—that will make a degree that more closely resembles what American doctoral programs look like.

 

From what I know about the "maybes," some seem like less of a fit, especially with your career goals to combine your practice of religion with scholarship. In particular, UNC, Columbia, and Stanford seem more of a question mark for me, as those programs are known for being quite secular in perspective. Union, Emory, Vanderbilt, UVa, and Notre Dame seem like better fits overall. The rest strike me as a "Hmm, maybe..." Two years ago, I would have said Harvard sounds like a reasonable idea, but with the ending of the ThD program Harvard's trajectory on more faith-integrative projects is less certain. Princeton is also somewhat tricky—it depends on whether you mean the University or the Seminary. I think I would also check out Yale's program—because of the divinity school there having several literature people (Peter Hawkins, Christian Wiman, Maggi Dawn, David Mahan) and at least a couple theologians who are interested in non-traditional theological loci.

 

Ultimately, though, none of these programs see themselves at the doctoral level as training people for the congregation. There are people that serve in churches, sure, but doctoral programs are for training researchers (and secondarily, teachers). I would advise making sure your priority as a researcher is what comes across strongest in your application, especially for schools that do not have divinity schools.

 

The only reason I would suggest doing an STM at Yale would be if you didn't have a clear sense of your project, a strong SOP, recommendations, or GRE score. That doesn't sound like the boat you're in, so I wouldn't prolong the process by another year.

Edited January 10, 2015 by theophany

[marXian]

Theophany is a little more optimistic than I am, but I think is largely right, especially about these programs not training people in any way for ministry. Where I differ I think from theophany is that it's not clear to me that your project fits immediately in any of these programs. I think one of the most important things you need to work out in the next few months is your research interests. The reason I say I'm having trouble seeing how your project would fit into a top tier program (or any "secular" academic program) is that it's not clear to me that you're actually interested in theology, or poetry, or the role these figures play in faith communities, etc. You're interested in people who are/were "poet-priests." At this point, are you able to say more about your interest in these people? I.e., Who are they? Is there a specific tradition in which they circulate? Are you interested in their theology qua "systematic" theology? or their poetry as a kind of theological expression? You're going to need to pin down something a little more specific than what you've given us here.

 

The other thing (echoing theophany) is that your ultimate career goal of being a kind of poet-pastor/priest is not going to be all that attractive to top tier programs (generally) nor any strictly academic institution (i.e. non-seminary.) Those programs are interested in producing scholars who are going to teach, research, and write at the highest level. If you're planning on incorporating you're own poetry into your dissertation or something... you're going to want to plan on not doing that. No program worth its salt is going to allow that. Regarding the ministry part, people definitely enter those programs with the intention of keeping the door open for ministry (myself included), but while you're in the program, you really have to focus on developing the academic side of things. There isn't much time in most programs to maintain a professional ministry career and be as successful as possible on the academic side. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. But don't expect an adcom to be really thrilled about someone who not only already knows he/she wants to do academic work part time once done but also wants to split his/her time three ways between ministry, scholarship, and poetry.

 

This is a different story if you were considering seminaries. My alma mater (Fuller Seminary) admits people into the theology and culture program who do more creative stuff like you describe. And, of course, many PhD students there are doing coursework part time while they work in ministry. The problem is that you'll likely have to fork out some of your own money or work really hard to win some outside scholarships and fellowships--something that people at the US programs you listed don't have to do.

 

I think it's still possible to ultimately do what you want to do professionally--but anything ministry/poetry related while you're in school is going to be on the side and not officially a part of your PhD program. In some ways that's really good. It's great to have a creative outlet, to volunteer somewhere, etc. so you can get outside your graduate work for a bit. 

 

It's hard to say whether any of the specific schools you mention are going to be good fits without a more specific direction regarding your interests. Every school could be a real stretch or some of them (especially ones that have "theology and culture" tracks) could be potential fits depending on how your frame your proposed project.

[fin56]

Thank you so much for writing back @theophany! This is immensely helpful. I have a few follow up ideas/questions:

 

- Duke's religion program (Grad) is super hard to get into - I am pretty skeptical about my admission there. I love the idea of the ThD program, but was told by a prof that it didn't measure up to doing a PhD, even if I went to England. Is this true? What is the Duke ThD reputation?

 

- I have thought about the MPhil issue in going to the UK. That's why I thought the YDS idea would be good. I think I could maybe go there through ISM, then go on to the UK  PhD.

 

- Do you know anything about the ITIA reputation at St Andrews?

 

@Mocha, thanks to you as well. I am writing on this forum for exactly that kind of straight talk.

 

- I am interested specifically in doing work on the theological implications of naturalism and Anglicanism in R.S. Thomas' poetry, based in the influence of Coleridge and his idea of primary imagination. However, I am willing to research other poets and interests if a professor were willing to work with me. I still feel very open.

 

- I have no interest in pursuing my other interests (writing and professional ministry) while doing a PhD. I will probably serve on a monthly basis at a congregation nearby, and at the divinity school (if I go to a school with one attached). I just meant long term writing/serving is where I might end up... I don't know what God has in store! I take the point well though that research is the priority. I am on board with that in applications and while a student (and beyond, too!). Obviously I agree that personal poetry in a PhD project is riduclous! I was simply trying to share a larger image of who I am.

 

Any further thoughts? Much obliged.

Fin56

[marXian]

Thanks for the clarifications. Those things weren't clear in the initial post, so I hope you weren't offended! You're new to the forum, but we definitely get posts from time to time from people who really have no clue what PhD work entails (which is fine--that's what this forum is for!) I've found it's always best to be blunt with people upfront.   The admissions process is really just the beginning, the prelude even, to a long and arduous journey involving heavy doses of painful reality (i.e. rejection and questions of self-worth, intelligence, etc.) which needs to be faced sooner rather later. It sounds like you already have a basic sense of that though! That negativity isn't to say that a Ph.D program is a pit of never-ending misery--but it can be if you're not prepared for it!

 

Anyway, based on your comments, you're going to need to find places that are either friendly to theology or you need to cast your interest in a more philosophy of religion sort of light. For example, Stanford, Brown, Columbia, UNC, and probably Harvard (since the ThD is no more) are not, generally speaking, going to be interested in a theological project, even hostile toward one. There are faculty at these places who are exceptions (e.g. Brent Sockness at Stanford, Thomas Lewis at Brown, Mark Taylor at Columbia) but I'm not sure those people would be the right fit for your project idea (Lewis is maybe the closest.) Even at a program like UVA, which I think would be a good fit because they have a theology and culture track (Theology, Ethics, & Culture) as well as some faculty who do religion and literature, you'd have to make sure your SOP didn't have any explicitly confessional interest in it. At any rate, I think any program that has a religion and literature, theology and culture, or some similar track is going to be a good fit for you.

 

Also be on the look out for schools that have certificate programs, official interdisciplinary groups, etc. that could foster your interdisciplinary interests. For example, I attend Northwestern which has something called the interdisciplinary cluster initiative. As a part of the critical theory cluster, I did most of my coursework outside the religious studies department with the philosophy, German, and political science departments. Even though my home department doesn't do a lot of work explicitly in critical theory (outside a couple profs), I was able to foster that interest and incorporate it into my work within the department including coursework, my third qualifying exam this spring, and my dissertation. Other schools, I'm sure, have similar interdisciplinary programs that encourage students to get outside of their home field. If you found a prof who was interested in Anglican theology--or at least willing to work with someone who was--plus an institutional atmosphere which strongly fostered interdisciplinary work, you could make your project (or some version of it) happen. 

 

The fact that you feel very open is really good. I've altered the focus of my research twice since being admitted, a story I'd share via PM if you're interested in hearing how that works. Most people when they're applying (myself included) are usually under the impression that you are largely stuck doing whatever your propose to do with maybe some slight variations. I haven't found that to be the case though. Lots of people change their dissertation topics once they're in and sometimes drastically so. Of course, it certainly doesn't have to. But your openness right now is going to help you write a successful SOP when the time comes and have a really fruitful experience during your coursework once you're in.

[Lux Lex Pax]

Check out the programs in English and/or Literature at Duke. They have a few people you might be interested in working with or who would at least be open to your kind of project. I'm thinking of David Aers, Thomas Pfau, and Ken Surrin.

[gidadu]

This might seem like a weird question, but -- how likely is it that you will be accepted to a tier 1 PhD program in Theology with a B on your transcript? I have four A- right now and all the rest are As (and am currently in my third year of full-time seminary), but I have one exegesis class that is killing me and I'm starting to think I might get a B in the class. Would it be better to withdraw and have a W on my transcript, or is it better to have the B? Again I realize it's a weird question, but I've heard that it's nearly impossible to get into a PhD program if you don't have straight As, and I'm wondering if there's truth to that. Thanks...

[gidadu]

Just realized I probably should have posted this in the bigger thread so I'm moving it on over there too. Oops!

[LauraR]

Have you thought at all about MFAs?

[LauraR]

Gidadu--I have a B+ on my transcript and a handfull of A minuses. I'm doing well this application season. Stick it out.

[LauraR]

I was told by my profs that grades are not a huge deal-- if you're in the 3.7/3.8 range, you are squarely in the "good enough" camp. Focus on your GREs, your writing sample, and your statement of purpose.