Grad School - Can it make up for low undergrad GPA?

[ajayghale]

Hey everyone! I joined this site to feed my obsessional tendencies, so here goes my question:

 

I have a 3.056 undergrad GPA. This is because I started off doing something I really shouldn't have (Biology) and turfed out hard. I added a language major and made nothing but As and Bs (second major GPA is around 3.7) I currently am working on two MAs (took comps for one last semester, so technically now it's just one) and my GPA is 3.9. I'm aware of grade inflation for grad programs, etc.

 

Does the undergrad GPA have such an impact on admissions committees that even a decent grad GPA can't make up for it? GRE scores are 164V/158Q, if that helps any.

 

Many thanks!

 

(I looked around on Faculty Perspectives, but couldn't find anything that spoke specifically to this issue, so I apologize if this has been answered.)

[snyegurachka]

One of the reasons I decided to get an MA is because I had a 3.37 undergrad GPA. I have yet to see if this will help me. Even if it does not "make up" for a low undergrad GPA, it does improve your profile as a candidate because your work/ideas are more developed, your letter writers probably know you better, etc. Most programs only require that you do not have below a 3.0 GPA from your degree-granting undergraduate institution.

[AmericanQuant]

A good story and good recommendation letters are very helpful in explaining away a bad GPA.  It sounds like you've got a good explanation.  You should also explain it to your rec writers so that they can emphasize what a good polisci student you are, despite any past trouble you had in bio.

[Hopeful21]

Darn I just posted this question in some length on the faculty perspectives page! Oops!

[zephyri]

I had a similar undergraduate GPA as the OP, but worked 3 years after college in a policy-related job.  I think this helped make up for my low undergrad GPA.  The good news is that once your foot is in the door in a grad program, you can really push your GPA up.  I have a 3.96 now, (in grad school) which I never thought I'd have based on my undergrad GPA!  Once you boost your GPA in grad school, it looks better on fellowship/grant applications.  My low undergrad GPA is not hindering me in grad school.  I think to some extent, programs that accept you understand that what you see on the transcript is not the sum whole of the student.  After all, college is the time for trying out new interests!

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

My undergrad was not good and I have 2 phd acceptances right now, waiting on a third.  I worked three years, went for a master degree, focused on research opportunities and networking with faculty for strong LORs, decent GRE scores, and selected programs based on adviser fit and productivity. I am matched with the faculty I identified and reached out to prior to applying. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by WhatAmIDoingNow

[ajayghale]

I think I have a lot of stuff working against me. Low undergrad GPA, research topic that holds little if any interest in poli sci (popular culture/international relations, and I know about Nexon, but the rest of the schools were a reach in terms of fit) and I didn't reach out to anyone in advance because I got too much conflicting advice about doing so prior to applying.

*sigh*

So I guess we'll see if I get lucky.

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

I think I have a lot of stuff working against me. Low undergrad GPA, research topic that holds little if any interest in poli sci (popular culture/international relations, and I know about Nexon, but the rest of the schools were a reach in terms of fit) and I didn't reach out to anyone in advance because I got too much conflicting advice about doing so prior to applying.

*sigh*

So I guess we'll see if I get lucky.

Who told you not to reach out before applying? That it the absolute worst advice ever. I want to stare down that person who gave you that misinformation and slowly shake my head in disagreement with them. How are you going to know if you fit the program and it is a way for someone in the program to distinguish you from the next applicant? And applications are expensive, monetarily and time wise. 

 

After the rant.  Hopefully you get into a program in which you have a good fit.  If you end up entering into the Fall 2016 application round, you have all your material.  Contacting faculty and researching who is doing what you are interested in would be your task.  Your research interest sounds like sociology with an IR focus.  

Edited February 11, 2015 by WhatAmIDoingNow

[victorydance]

It's incredibly easy to find how to fit into a program by looking at CVs. There is conflicting advice about reaching out, enough to suggest that doing/not doing it isn't a wrong choice by any means. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by victorydance

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

When I reached out I found out that some faculty were not going to be working in my area of interest, as the projects on their CV ended and they were moving onto other areas.  Other faculty were leaving the program or taking a new role with less focus on research.  A couple actually shared that they weren't working on what their CV looked like they were working on, but gave me much better contacts for what I want to do.  Everyone I emailed and spoke with were more than willing to help, or were assertive that they were not interested.  If the person of interest is not interested in helping me, that is a great red flag to not try to work with them.

 

What are the arguments against reaching out?

Edited February 11, 2015 by WhatAmIDoingNow

[ajayghale]

It's incredibly easy to find how to fit into a program by looking at CVs. There is conflicting advice about reaching out, enough to suggest that doing/not doing it isn't a wrong choice by any means.

Yeah, I looked through CVs. I tried to spread my selections out geographically and within the top 30 or so and pick the person or people with the closest interests, which is essentially anyone working on Russia, be it IR or Comparative.

[zephyri]

I reached out to faculty at every PhD program I applied to, but I don't think it's a decisive factor in any way in terms of determining admission.  If you are an attractive candidate (GPA, research record, individual initiative) committees are more likely to accept you.  I think we're mistaking faculty contact for the right "fit" in the program- if you have researched the grad program and can argue why it's a good fit in your essay, that will speak volumes more than a once-off e-mail exchange saying "yes I'll work with this person if she's admitted."

 

When I got to grad school I ended up working with a different set of advisors entirely!  Don't put too much stock into reaching out to faculty beforehand- it helps, but it's not a dealbreaker.

[victorydance]

When I reached out I found out that some faculty were not going to be working in my area of interest, as the projects on their CV ended and they were moving onto other areas.  Other faculty were leaving the program or taking a new role with less focus on research.  A couple actually shared that they weren't working on what their CV looked like they were working on, but gave me much better contacts for what I want to do.  Everyone I emailed and spoke with were more than willing to help, or were assertive that they were not interested.  If the person of interest is not interested in helping me, that is a great red flag to not try to work with them.

 

What are the arguments against reaching out?

 

1) It's not necessary for your adviser to be working on something exactly what you want for him or her to be a good adviser, although it is preferable. All that matters is they have some expertise in whatever intended research you want to do.

 

2) If a professor isn't on the grad committee, he or she has virtually no say in whether you get accepted or not.

 

3) Most professors won't give you any real information you couldn't have found out on your own.

 

I see a point in certain circumstances...like say if a POI is up there in age and you want to see if they are still advising grad students and what their deal is (I did this with two professors), or emailing a prof you might have met or got data off before somewhere down the line (I also did this). 

 

However, for the most part it's a waste of time. There is an argument to be made that it doesn't hurt you therefore it's not a bad thing to do, but it's definitely not a mistake to not mass email a bunch of POIs by any means. 

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

How do you find out who is on the grad committee and what they are looking for in applicants? The POIs could be the admissions committee or have more sway than you know. Emails are much easier than completing applications.  Plus, it is not a mass email event.  I emailed 5 people I was most interested in working with and then received a lot of rich information on their perspectives on the field, the programs, fit, and each program's applications processes and expectations. Helped me whittle my applications down to a few schools and tailor my applications to the programs. 

 

The field I am in could be different for other fields, though. I have never heard faculty nor my mentors state that it isn't important to reach out. Outreach was recommend across the board, and it was pivotal to my acceptances and making my decision on where to attend. The PhD is such a huge commitment to not get insider information. 

[Hopeful21]

How do you find out who is on the grad committee and what they are looking for in applicants? The POIs could be the admissions committee or have more sway than you know. Emails are much easier than completing applications.  Plus, it is not a mass email event.  I emailed 5 people I was most interested in working with and then received a lot of rich information on their perspectives on the field, the programs, fit, and each program's applications processes and expectations. Helped me whittle my applications down to a few schools and tailor my applications to the programs. 

 

The field I am in could be different for other fields, though. I have never heard faculty nor my mentors state that it isn't important to reach out. Outreach was recommend across the board, and it was pivotal to my acceptances and making my decision on where to attend. The PhD is such a huge commitment to not get insider information. 

 

When I reached out I found out that some faculty were not going to be working in my area of interest, as the projects on their CV ended and they were moving onto other areas.  Other faculty were leaving the program or taking a new role with less focus on research.  A couple actually shared that they weren't working on what their CV looked like they were working on, but gave me much better contacts for what I want to do.  Everyone I emailed and spoke with were more than willing to help, or were assertive that they were not interested.  If the person of interest is not interested in helping me, that is a great red flag to not try to work with them.

 

What are the arguments against reaching out?

 

Ok just from my experience, because I was in a similar position to ajayghale, my undergrad GPA was actually lower than yours! So I did an MA and was awarded Salutatorian. I did this specifically to atone for the weakness of my undergrad degree. 

 

So in terms of the arguments for and against reaching out, I think it depends on the department and what individual professors prefer. For me, I wanted to make sure that I would find a faculty member or members in a department that were willing to communicate with students. And decided I wouldn't apply to programs that I received no response from faculty in. 

 

I researched extensively which departments in the US were the best for my research interests. In this process, I disregarded rank, and focused only on the kinds of research the department was engaged in. And then I put together an informal statement of purposes more like a cover letter type email that was rather detailed, and I emailed professors that I believe that I could work with, where my interests intersected. I also attached a copy of my MA thesis, a research paper I had prepared and asked them to review and advise if I would be a fit for the program.

 

I hit the jackpot, because one of the actual POIs I emailed and advised me that I was a great fit in their department actually was on the admissions committee and as soon as the committee made the decision, he emailed me and told me I was admitted with funding.

 

I guess, I don't wish to articulate an argument either way, I just wanted to share my experience.

 

Despite having such a poor undergrad GPA and weak quant GRE, I have received 3 offers so far. I think reaching out in my case was really important in helping to overcome the shortcomings in other parts of my application.

[ajayghale]

Ok just from my experience, because I was in a similar position to ajayghale, my undergrad GPA was actually lower than yours! So I did an MA and was awarded Salutatorian. I did this specifically to atone for the weakness of my undergrad degree.

So in terms of the arguments for and against reaching out, I think it depends on the department and what individual professors prefer. For me, I wanted to make sure that I would find a faculty member or members in a department that were willing to communicate with students. And decided I wouldn't apply to programs that I received no response from faculty in.

I researched extensively which departments in the US were the best for my research interests. In this process, I disregarded rank, and focused only on the kinds of research the department was engaged in. And then I put together an informal statement of purposes more like a cover letter type email that was rather detailed, and I emailed professors that I believe that I could work with, where my interests intersected. I also attached a copy of my MA thesis, a research paper I had prepared and asked them to review and advise if I would be a fit for the program.

I hit the jackpot, because one of the actual POIs I emailed and advised me that I was a great fit in their department actually was on the admissions committee and as soon as the committee made the decision, he emailed me and told me I was admitted with funding.

I guess, I don't wish to articulate an argument either way, I just wanted to share my experience.

Despite having such a poor undergrad GPA and weak quant GRE, I have received 3 offers so far. I think reaching out in my case was really important in helping to overcome the shortcomings in other parts of my application.

Looks like that's what I should have done.

[WhatAmIDoingNow]

Ok just from my experience, because I was in a similar position to ajayghale, my undergrad GPA was actually lower than yours! So I did an MA and was awarded Salutatorian. I did this specifically to atone for the weakness of my undergrad degree. 

 

So in terms of the arguments for and against reaching out, I think it depends on the department and what individual professors prefer. For me, I wanted to make sure that I would find a faculty member or members in a department that were willing to communicate with students. And decided I wouldn't apply to programs that I received no response from faculty in. 

 

I researched extensively which departments in the US were the best for my research interests. In this process, I disregarded rank, and focused only on the kinds of research the department was engaged in. And then I put together an informal statement of purposes more like a cover letter type email that was rather detailed, and I emailed professors that I believe that I could work with, where my interests intersected. I also attached a copy of my MA thesis, a research paper I had prepared and asked them to review and advise if I would be a fit for the program.

 

I hit the jackpot, because one of the actual POIs I emailed and advised me that I was a great fit in their department actually was on the admissions committee and as soon as the committee made the decision, he emailed me and told me I was admitted with funding.

 

I guess, I don't wish to articulate an argument either way, I just wanted to share my experience.

 

Despite having such a poor undergrad GPA and weak quant GRE, I have received 3 offers so far. I think reaching out in my case was really important in helping to overcome the shortcomings in other parts of my application.

 

That is pretty close to what I did too.  The two schools I have been admitted to, the faculty I spoke to are matched as my advisers now.  Still waiting on a school that doesn't send notifications out until mid March.