Program Specific Thread - Princeton U

[SunnygirlDiana]

Hey guys! As far as I'm concerned, application season is over for me now (thankfully!), and at this point, I think its very likely that I will accept Princeton's offer, and i am curious if anyone else on this forum is seriously considering Princeton. So like the other program specific threads, I am curious about your thoughts/plans on any of the following questions:

1. Are you going to visit Princeton, and if so, which weekend?

2. Is Princeton one of your top choices?

3. What do you see as the pros and cons of the program and the surrounding NJ area?

4. What do you think about Princeton's general qualifiers setup and how does it compare to other programs? (For those who didnt read the handbook, there will be a qualifying exam for all subfields of chem the second year, after which you are first awarded a masters, and in later years, there will be one In-Field Research Proposal and two Out-of-Field research proposals. I thought this was somewhat rigorous compared to a lot of programs!)

5. Which PIs do you think are most famous/well-regarded OR which PIs would you be interested in working for?

Please feel free to share any additional thoughts or questions!

[ghostar]

I didn't apply to Princeton, but I just wanted to ask: what makes you lean towards Princeton among all your accepted programs? Which programs have you visited? 

 

5. Which PIs do you think are most famous/well-regarded OR which PIs would you be interested in working for?

 

This depends on what your research interests are for grad school. For organic synthesis/catalysis, names that jump right off are Abi Doyle and David MacMillan -- they are both well-respected for organocatalysis, and Abi Doyle is a rising female star. There is also Erik Sorensen if you're looking for natural-products total synthesis. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by ghostar

[SunnygirlDiana]

I didn't apply to Princeton, but I just wanted to ask: what makes you lean towards Princeton among all your accepted programs? Which programs have you visited? 

 

 

Hi ghostar. Yeah, I've heard on this forum and elsewhere that a lot of people don't end up going to Princeton even if they are offered admission for whatever reason...and I'm a little surprised at how few responses ie little interest in Princeton's program there seems to be on this forum then...

 

The biggest reasons I want to go to Princeton are:

 

1. I have received some very positive and encouraging e-mails from Professor MacMillan since my acceptance and he is my top choice in terms of PI out of any university I have applied to. He is a giant in organocatalysis as you probably know, I am really fantastically interested research, and his students have great placement. There are many other reasons why I want to work for him too in terms of the culture of his group but I won't go into them. Hopefully I can get into his group, but if not, there are other choices for me there too!

 

2. I want to live and work in NJ and settle down here when I grow older. I really love NJ and greater new york city area, and my family is here too. If this is the plan, sometimes it is better to go to a good university inside that state of interest, rather than a better, maybe higher ranked program that is farther away.

 

3. Princeton's program is on the rise in the past ten years especially after Professor MacMillan went over and became chair. They are intertwined with the surrounding industry (lots of companies here go to recruit at Princeton, and really seek out the Princeton grads), especially pharma. For example, Merck donated a bunch of money to build the Merck Catalysis Center over there for high throughput screening and reaction development etc. Also, Princeton has a BEAUTIFUL NEW CHEMISTRY BUILDING now (i think it was built within the past two years) which is really sweet because then you really get state-of-the-art equipment and facilities and its just a great place overall to do chemistry then (this should really be a dealmaker to a lot of people!! New facilities are the best!!!)

 

4. Places like Princeton and Harvard don't usually have problems with funding....it is really a relief to know this after my experiences at my undergraduate institution......for example, I didn't like my advisor telling me we "couldnt' afford to" order new parts for our high vacuums, and then having to deal with crappy pumps that only pulled to ~2 Torr for four years....or not being able to afford slightly expensive chemicals...

 

5. I like smaller programs and class size. I like the school and the campus and environment (for grad school, but maybe I wouldn't have preferred this for undergrad). I like that they kinda pamper their students and aren't as intense and rigorous as somewhere like MIT (I work hard but i'm not THAT intense either. I like my breaks every so often lol). Overall, the environment is a good fit for me. Also, I like that Princeton's department has more young, active faculty, rather than just old emeritus previous Nobel Prize winning professors that don't take students anymore.

 

 

 

 

This depends on what your research interests are for grad school. For organic synthesis/catalysis, names that jump right off are Abi Doyle and David MacMillan -- they are both well-respected for organocatalysis, and Abi Doyle is a rising female star. There is also Erik Sorensen if you're looking for natural-products total synthesis. 

 

Hahah, yes for the PIs question, I was mainly targeting this to people who are not planning on doing organic chemistry. I am generally familiar with the big names in my field, but not necessarily in P chem or Inorganic etc...So i was curious who at princeton is really well regarded in those other fields.

 

I am going to visit Caltech, Columbia and Northwestern before finalizing my decision but I really have my mind set on Princeton now overall. I think of all the programs I applied to, Caltech is very excellent in organic methodology/catalysis particularly, and in terms of research, it may be the best fit for me, but I just don't prefer California overall and would rather stay east, I have visited UC Berkeley and Stanford before and don't like the overall experience as much...I feel the best way I can make up for turning down such a great program would be to work with Professor MacMillan at Princeton! haha.

 

Sorry for the huge rant but hope I sufficiently answered your questions

Edited February 1, 2015 by SunnygirlDiana

[16777216]

Unless I get in somewhere else (pretty unlikely at this point, I'm also considering app season basically over) or I really end up hating it when I visit, I'm almost certainly going to Princeton. I'm planning on doing organic as well, I really like Macmillian and Doyle. I like pretty much everything about the program, actually.

The only real con is the location. It's not totally in the middle of nowhere but it's pretty bad. I'm living in Boston right now and it's not comparable. My Dad actually lived there for quite a while before I was born. I asked him what he thought of it and he basically said: it's beautiful but cost of living is high (I think it's about the same as Boston, but with none of the perks) and there's not much going on. If you wanted to see a concert you'd probably have to take the train into New York.

I'm visiting on the weekend of February 27th! If anyone's visiting on the same date say hi.

[SunnygirlDiana]

Cool!!! glad to know someone else on this forum is interested in princeton! maybe we can meet in the fall then -- unfortunately I'm visiting on the 6th instead.

 

The only real con is the location. It's not totally in the middle of nowhere but it's pretty bad. I'm living in Boston right now and it's not comparable. My Dad actually lived there for quite a while before I was born. I asked him what he thought of it and he basically said: it's beautiful but cost of living is high (I think it's about the same as Boston, but with none of the perks) and there's not much going on. If you wanted to see a concert you'd probably have to take the train into New York.

 

Haha the biggest perk in terms of location is just that its close enough to NY and you can easily take a train there!! I'm biased but I think NYC is the best city in the world (but this is only after going to most major american cities, chinese cities, and west european cities so I'm still missing a lot of 'em ahhaha) so I love this!! But i guess if you were used to living IN a city it will be very different and boring for sure. Princeton is not an exciting town by any means.

 

HOWEVER, i don't think the cost of living is actually too bad ... it is definitely more expensive in Princeton but depending on how long you're willing to commute to school, you can find lots of cheaper nearby NJ neighborhoods to princeton. For example, I live about 25 minutes away from Princeton now and am only paying $340 per month for rent....but I would say the average rent in lots of Jersey neighborhoods, if you split with roommates, is a little above $500-600, so not too bad. If it is the case that you end up deciding to go to Princeton and want recommendations for cheaper neighborhoods to live in, you can message me and we can discuss it (i am around this area now and have some inside info on this then)

[fretting]

wow looks like i have competition for macmillan and doyle   

 

anyway, application season is probably over for me as well and since Princeton was my first choice (solely based on faculty) before application season started, I am indeed leaning towards Princeton. I will be visiting on the 6th as well! I will also be visiting UW Madison, and lately, UW Madison is looking more and more attractive to me so I think the visits will really help me decide!

 

in terms of pros, i agree that the organic department has been growing in stature in recent years, and if i miss out on macmillan and doyle, i still have other options that I am interested in. Another thing is that it seems like they are fairly committed to getting you through grad school in 5 years, unlike at some other programs where it might drag on. 

 

in terms of cons, it would be location. while this is nullified somewhat by being an hour away from nyc, i still get the feeling that the Princeton area doesnt seem like a place where you can meet people outside of the university. i will be spending the back half of my twenties getting a phd, and I hope to be further along in terms of my personal life by the time I am done! hopefully the visit assuages this and it turns out I really like the place! 

 

Also, I have been reading up on Princeton online, and it seems like they take particular pride in stating that their focus is on undergraduate education, so this made me wonder about the treatment graduate students would get in terms of funding and stuff. hopefully it's nothing, but this is the one thing that raised a mini red flag in my head.

 

anyway, that's just my two cents! psyched for the visit! hopefully i will see you guys there!

[SunnygirlDiana]

wow looks like i have competition for macmillan and doyle 

 

in terms of cons, it would be location. while this is nullified somewhat by being an hour away from nyc, i still get the feeling that the Princeton area doesnt seem like a place where you can meet people outside of the university. i will be spending the back half of my twenties getting a phd, and I hope to be further along in terms of my personal life by the time I am done! hopefully the visit assuages this and it turns out I really like the place! 

 

 

I think MacMillan usually has high capacities...it just depends if he likes the student whether or not he'll take you (i saw one year he took 5!!) so hopefully we don't have to compete too much! ;P

 

Yes, that is true of a lot of chemistry graduate programs in general and especially with places in NJ or random college towns like UIUC's i bet....if you are speaking in terms of finding a relationship, many of my friends who come to grad school single and are interested in dating kind of struggle to meet and find new people throughout grad school....a lot of them resort to online dating, i'm not sure, maybe this is also because they are introverted but i would be cautious is how you proceed with this because it can really be a serious distraction from research from what i've seen (although if you're successful, the payoff is great!) But yeah, chances are you won't find romantic partners within the department LOL. If you are speaking just in terms of meeting friends outside the department, I think most areas are easy to do this, and even in Princeton, and in NYC nearby, there are alot of bars or social events you can frequent to do so. 

 

 

 

Also, I have been reading up on Princeton online, and it seems like they take particular pride in stating that their focus is on undergraduate education, so this made me wonder about the treatment graduate students would get in terms of funding and stuff. hopefully it's nothing, but this is the one thing that raised a mini red flag in my head.

 

 

Haha, I doubt this will be a problem because as I said, Princeton is a pretty rich school and they are known for "pampering their students" compared to the other IV Leagues too...my dentist whose son went to Princeton for grad school told me that they treat undergraduates very well, but if thats so, the graduate students are like "royalty" there. Not sure why he thought that, but I don't think they will be too stingy or mean to us overall then!! haha!

[16777216]

wow looks like i have competition for macmillan and doyle 

 

anyway, application season is probably over for me as well and since Princeton was my first choice (solely based on faculty) before application season started, I am indeed leaning towards Princeton. I will be visiting on the 6th as well! I will also be visiting UW Madison, and lately, UW Madison is looking more and more attractive to me so I think the visits will really help me decide!

 

in terms of pros, i agree that the organic department has been growing in stature in recent years, and if i miss out on macmillan and doyle, i still have other options that I am interested in. Another thing is that it seems like they are fairly committed to getting you through grad school in 5 years, unlike at some other programs where it might drag on. 

 

in terms of cons, it would be location. while this is nullified somewhat by being an hour away from nyc, i still get the feeling that the Princeton area doesnt seem like a place where you can meet people outside of the university. i will be spending the back half of my twenties getting a phd, and I hope to be further along in terms of my personal life by the time I am done! hopefully the visit assuages this and it turns out I really like the place! 

 

Also, I have been reading up on Princeton online, and it seems like they take particular pride in stating that their focus is on undergraduate education, so this made me wonder about the treatment graduate students would get in terms of funding and stuff. hopefully it's nothing, but this is the one thing that raised a mini red flag in my head.

 

anyway, that's just my two cents! psyched for the visit! hopefully i will see you guys there!

Are we twins? I'm also thinking really hard about UW Madison, they're probably my second choice and visits could definitely sway me. When are you visiting UW Madison?

 

Cool!!! glad to know someone else on this forum is interested in princeton! maybe we can meet in the fall then -- unfortunately I'm visiting on the 6th instead.

 

 

Haha the biggest perk in terms of location is just that its close enough to NY and you can easily take a train there!! I'm biased but I think NYC is the best city in the world (but this is only after going to most major american cities, chinese cities, and west european cities so I'm still missing a lot of 'em ahhaha) so I love this!! But i guess if you were used to living IN a city it will be very different and boring for sure. Princeton is not an exciting town by any means.

 

HOWEVER, i don't think the cost of living is actually too bad ... it is definitely more expensive in Princeton but depending on how long you're willing to commute to school, you can find lots of cheaper nearby NJ neighborhoods to princeton. For example, I live about 25 minutes away from Princeton now and am only paying $340 per month for rent....but I would say the average rent in lots of Jersey neighborhoods, if you split with roommates, is a little above $500-600, so not too bad. If it is the case that you end up deciding to go to Princeton and want recommendations for cheaper neighborhoods to live in, you can message me and we can discuss it (i am around this area now and have some inside info on this then)

Ah this is awesome information re: cost of living! Yeah I'm just going off the internet and my Dad, and since he owned a house & stuff it's totally different. $340 for rent is almost literally impossible in Boston as you can imagine. The only real wrinkle here is that I can't drive, so I can't live too far away (although I might learn over the summer).

[SunnygirlDiana]

 

Ah this is awesome information re: cost of living! Yeah I'm just going off the internet and my Dad, and since he owned a house & stuff it's totally different. $340 for rent is almost literally impossible in Boston as you can imagine. The only real wrinkle here is that I can't drive, so I can't live too far away (although I might learn over the summer).

 

Yes that is one option I am going to switch to soon as well. I think if I am going to settle down around Princeton or NJ area for at least five years, it can be a good investment to buy a small apartment instead of renting some place out for the whole time and putting my money in a "black hole"....maybe you can talk to your dad and consider this as well (because in that case, even if rent is somewhat expensive, you can at least sell your apartment after that 5 years and get some of the money back)!

 

And i see...in that case, maybe it is best that you live on campus or within walking distance...parking is pretty competitive at Princeton I heard. In this case, your cost of living may be somewhat high unless you want to learn to drive later then relocate. In any case, it won't be a problem because the stipend will comfortably cover your living costs especially if you don't have to pay for auto insurance and gas too...there is a small downtown area next to the and some things within walking distance. however, aside from that, it might be incredibly boring in princeton area/ hard to get groceries and do some daily things without a car......

Edited February 2, 2015 by SunnygirlDiana

[16777216]

Yes that is one option I am going to switch to soon as well. I think if I am going to settle down around Princeton or NJ area for at least five years, it can be a good investment to buy a small apartment instead of renting some place out for the whole time and putting my money in a "black hole"....maybe you can talk to your dad and consider this as well (because in that case, even if rent is somewhat expensive, you can at least sell your apartment after that 5 years and get some of the money back)!

 

And i see...in that case, maybe it is best that you live on campus or within walking distance...parking is pretty competitive at Princeton I heard. In this case, your cost of living may be somewhat high unless you want to learn to drive later then relocate. In any case, it won't be a problem because the stipend will comfortably cover your living costs especially if you don't have to pay for auto insurance and gas too...there is a small downtown area next to the and some things within walking distance. however, aside from that, it might be incredibly boring in princeton area/ hard to get groceries and do some daily things without a car......

Yeah ): I'm really strongly considering learning to drive at this point.

[fretting]

Are we twins? I'm also thinking really hard about UW Madison, they're probably my second choice and visits could definitely sway me. When are you visiting UW Madison?

 

Ah this is awesome information re: cost of living! Yeah I'm just going off the internet and my Dad, and since he owned a house & stuff it's totally different. $340 for rent is almost literally impossible in Boston as you can imagine. The only real wrinkle here is that I can't drive, so I can't live too far away (although I might learn over the summer).

 

I will be visiting UW-Madison on the weekend of 27th Feb!

 

Anyway, I think the department at Princeton is getting current graduate students to make contact with prospective students like us! I corresponded with a 4th year student in the Bocarsly lab over the weekend and he has been an absolute wealth of information. Think you guys should have received an email from someone or will be receiving one soon! if you are interested, I can just paste his responses on this thread.

[SunnygirlDiana]

Yeah ): I'm really strongly considering learning to drive at this point.

Haha you definitely should!! Dont worry, almost everyone drives -- so it cant be that difficult or scary! But not everyone can get admitted to top chem programs like UWMad or Princeton so you should have confidence!

Anyway, I think the department at Princeton is getting current graduate students to make contact with prospective students like us! I corresponded with a 4th year student in the Bocarsly lab over the weekend and he has been an absolute wealth of information. Think you guys should have received an email from someone or will be receiving one soon! if you are interested, I can just paste his responses on this thread.

Please do paste his responses here! Im curious to learn more about the department. I will also meet with a few princeton grad students next week because im closeby the area and i'll let you guys know what i find out!

[fretting]

Please do paste his responses here! Im curious to learn more about the department. I will also meet with a few princeton grad students next week because im closeby the area and i'll let you guys know what i find out!

 

Here!

 

1. Being a fourth year is interesting. At some level, it feels like I just got to Princeton, and at another, it feels like I've been here forever. As a fourth year, you don't have to take classes, teach, take an ethics course, do generals, or give a departmental seminar (all of which are departmental requirements in the first three years). You get to focus solely on research, and it's nice. On the other hand, being a grad student is stressful, and that's never going to go away! My friends and I all have our good days and bad days.

 

2. The generals exam is very stressful, but, with the right preparation, you'll likely do well. Unlike some other departments, chemistry doesn't fail many students. As I said, the exam is exceedingly stressful, but you'll have the support of your advisor and others who have gone through it before, so you'll have all of the resources you need to do well. The independent proposal was the most stressful part of my exam. Nonetheless, at that point, you would have read enough literature that coming up with a viable original proposal isn't impossible. 

 

3. The department is extremely close. They have plenty of money to throw large yearly parties (Frickmas, Fricknic, etc.), and we have a departmental social every Friday at 5 PM. The GSO (Graduate Student Organization, of which I am a member) also hosts movie showings, apple cider/doughnut parties in autumn, ice cream socials, etc. We have seminars most weeks, so you'll never be bored of that. This isn't to say that it isn't stressful--most of the time, my friends and I are stressed beyond belief, but this will be true at any graduate school. It definitely helps, though, that the department is as close as it is. 

 

4. The graduate students like to pretend that the university doesn't recognize us as people, but it's totally overblown, and you shouldn't get the wrong idea. The university treats graduate students extremely well. Our health insurance is fantastic, our graduate coordinator (Meghan) is incredibly helpful, our salaries are very reasonable, our housing arrangements are fair (for the most part), the maintenance staff is quick to respond to issues in our apartments, and the shuttle system makes it easy to get around campus. We still get access to the gym and health center, and as far as most people are concerned, we're just students. In reality, the graduate students are just bitter because our work is significantly harder than the undergraduate's. That's really all it comes down to. Princeton is not a PUI (primarily undergraduate institution), and the ratio of undergrads to graduate students is 2:1. The university isn't going to forget about 1/3 of its student population.

 

5. I'd describe Princeton as a beautiful and relaxing town. It certainly doesn't compare to NYC/Philly in terms of nightlife, but personally, I'd rather drink beer at a friend's apartment while playing poker anyway =) I'm very lucky because I have a strong group of friends that are all my year. In an average weekend, we'll probably go to a movie, play some board games, go to a bar or two, play cards while drinking beer, etc. We don't often go to either Philly or NYC, but the option is always there. There are some bars in Princeton (including the graduate school's own bar, the DBar), but most tend to be on the expensive side. People put a lot of emphasis on nightlife when choosing graduate schools, but in reality, you likely won't have too much time as a graduate student.

 

6. I narrowed my decision down to Princeton, Yale, and the University of Washington. I'll be honest--the research at Washington attracted me more, but I wanted to balance being close to my family (they live in MA), the research, and the department. Princeton made me feel very comfortable, and I love the quiet town feel. It's hard to put into words, but at the end of the day, I thought I'd be happier at Princeton.

[SunnygirlDiana]

Wow this guy is a little crazy! He sounds super stressed out! This isn't exactly the norm for the graduate students at my school (don't get me wrong, they definitely have their good and bad days as well and are a little stressed overall but I don't think they would describe anything as EXCEEDINGLY stressful!) but this may partly be because the general qualifiers at our school are less intense. If you're not the kind to get stressed out as easily, or if you weren't too stressed overall during your undergrad years, I wouldn't be too intimidated ("tendency to get stressed" is the kind of thing that's just determined by our genes more than our environment )....however, it really does sound like a lot to have on your plate during that second year to possibly balance classes, qualifying exam AND research! geez! But a lot of people at my school will usually take about one month just doing parttime in lab to write their proposals so that should be fine overall...

 

My impression was that most schools either had a qualifiers test OR an in field/out of field research proposal pair as the general qualifier....hence why I asked this question in the original post. I thought it was surprising that princeton had a qualifying test and THREE proposals! wow! However, I do feel bad for the princeton students because he says the FOURTH year is the first year year without any kind of qualifier?? That is a little unfortunate then, as students at my school are done with their qualifiers at the end of the second year. I'm not sure if my school is out of the norm, or if Princeton is, but I was just curious as to when/what year other programs wrap up their qualifiers....

 

 

 

 

3. The department is extremely close. They have plenty of money to throw large yearly parties (Frickmas, Fricknic, etc.), and we have a departmental social every Friday at 5 PM. The GSO (Graduate Student Organization, of which I am a member) also hosts movie showings, apple cider/doughnut parties in autumn, ice cream socials, etc. We have seminars most weeks, so you'll never be bored of that. This isn't to say that it isn't stressful--most of the time, my friends and I are stressed beyond belief, but this will be true at any graduate school. It definitely helps, though, that the department is as close as it is. 

 

5. I'd describe Princeton as a beautiful and relaxing town. It certainly doesn't compare to NYC/Philly in terms of nightlife, but personally, I'd rather drink beer at a friend's apartment while playing poker anyway =) I'm very lucky because I have a strong group of friends that are all my year. In an average weekend, we'll probably go to a movie, play some board games, go to a bar or two, play cards while drinking beer, etc. We don't often go to either Philly or NYC, but the option is always there. There are some bars in Princeton (including the graduate school's own bar, the DBar), but most tend to be on the expensive side. 

 

On a happier note, I think the "graduate student life" and the social atmosphere of this program is very good compared to a lot of grad schools I've been to or heard of (maybe because princeton has such good funding for things in general too ). The GSO sounds quite busy then if it is hosting all of these events -- it must be tough to be a board member then! -- but I think its really nice that they have a departmental social every Friday so that you have a good chance to network with people in the department that you don't usually see (not as many opportunities for something like this at my undergrad institution). I'm happy that despite this student's tendency to get stressed, him and others in the program seem to have a good social support network to lean on And honestly, I'm shocked but relieved to hear that these people are actually HANGING OUT and HAVING FUN every weekend instead of working in lab....what?! ;P

 

Overall, I'm really glad to hear this! I view being close to others in the department and having a close network as extremely important and a really positive point, especially because i'm quite extroverted and talk too much ;P

[16777216]

Haha you definitely should!! Dont worry, almost everyone drives -- so it cant be that difficult or scary! But not everyone can get admitted to top chem programs like UWMad or Princeton so you should have confidence!

Please do paste his responses here! Im curious to learn more about the department. I will also meet with a few princeton grad students next week because im closeby the area and i'll let you guys know what i find out!

Thanks, haha.

And thanks for posting his responses, fretting! I just asked the graduate student who contacted me about the benefits/downsides to starting in the summer (vs. an industry internship) and how much it affects which PI you can work with. So I'll post his responses to that here, I'm sure someone else is making some similar decisions.

[16777216]

I will be visiting UW-Madison on the weekend of 27th Feb!

 

Anyway, I think the department at Princeton is getting current graduate students to make contact with prospective students like us! I corresponded with a 4th year student in the Bocarsly lab over the weekend and he has been an absolute wealth of information. Think you guys should have received an email from someone or will be receiving one soon! if you are interested, I can just paste his responses on this thread.

Oh, I'm visiting on the 27th of March. Bummer.

[SunnygirlDiana]

Hi again guys!

 

So I asked a graduate student about the schedule of "rotations" or when we can start researching and how and when we will have to commit to an advisor and decide which lab we wanna work in. There is also some additional information he gave about places to hang out and things to do around princeton that I asked about (restaurants, malls, bars, hangouts etc)::

 

"Hi Diana,

 

Let me see if I can address each of your questions:

 

While we don't have formal research rotations in the chemistry department here, you are afforded the opportunity to try working in multiple labs before the November deadline for choosing an adviser, so that you find a group that's a good fit. Most incoming students seem to have a pretty good idea of who they want to work for and tend to stick with the professor they start out with, but being undecided at first is fine also. (When I got here in September 2012, I worked for two different professors before choosing a group, so it's no problem).

 

The department is always happy to have students come early over the summer and will help you arrange university housing as well as providing financial support. This is something that will be explained in more detail during the visiting weekends. You can come as early as July and possibly even in June depending on who you would like to work for. You will also have the opportunity to see the university housing options when you visit.

 

Being a university town, Princeton has plenty of restaurants and a handful of bars. The best burger place in town is probably 30 Burger

http://30burgers.com/

Hoagie Haven is also pretty popular

http://www.hoagiehaven.com/menu-sandwich.html

Popular hangouts include Small World Coffee which is indigenous to Princeton, and an assortment of tea rooms, ice cream places, etc.

 

There are a few Chinese places downtown, with varying degrees of authenticity. The most authentic Chinese restaurant that I know if is Szechuan House which is ~10 miles away in Trenton. Dr. Yang took our research group there about a year ago (he knows the owner). By all accounts, we were served food that we could expect to be served if we were in China. For other Chinese restaurant recommendations, I would ask some of the international students on your visit.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/szechuan-house-hamilton

 

Bars include: Winberie's, the Nassau Inn taproom, The Alchemist and Barrister (decent, student - friendly bars), a few really classy bars like in Agricola and The Witherspoon Grill, and Princeton's premier dive bar, The Ivy. In addition, the Grad College is home to The Debasement Bar (we just call it the D-Bar) which is run and bar-tended by grad students: the drinks are cheap but good. You'll get to visit the D-bar during the visiting weekend. 

 

Finally, there are two malls nearby Princeton: Market Fair Mall which is a 5-8 minute drive from the middle of town and the Quaker Bridge Mall which is ~ 10 minutes drive south on Route 1. Quaker Bridge is larger and has more department stores. It also has a Cheesecake Factory =-) . 

 

Hopefully that answered your questions. Let me know if anything else comes up!"

[fretting]

I just asked the graduate student who contacted me about the benefits/downsides to starting in the summer (vs. an industry internship) and how much it affects which PI you can work with. So I'll post his responses to that here, I'm sure someone else is making some similar decisions.

 

thanks! that would be good to know because I probably can't start in the summer!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Being a university town, Princeton has plenty of restaurants and a handful of bars. The best burger place in town is probably 30 Burger

http://30burgers.com/

Hoagie Haven is also pretty popular

http://www.hoagiehaven.com/menu-sandwich.html

Popular hangouts include Small World Coffee which is indigenous to Princeton, and an assortment of tea rooms, ice cream places, etc.

 

There are a few Chinese places downtown, with varying degrees of authenticity. The most authentic Chinese restaurant that I know if is Szechuan House which is ~10 miles away in Trenton. Dr. Yang took our research group there about a year ago (he knows the owner). By all accounts, we were served food that we could expect to be served if we were in China. For other Chinese restaurant recommendations, I would ask some of the international students on your visit.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/szechuan-house-hamilton

 

Bars include: Winberie's, the Nassau Inn taproom, The Alchemist and Barrister (decent, student - friendly bars), a few really classy bars like in Agricola and The Witherspoon Grill, and Princeton's premier dive bar, The Ivy. In addition, the Grad College is home to The Debasement Bar (we just call it the D-Bar) which is run and bar-tended by grad students: the drinks are cheap but good. You'll get to visit the D-bar during the visiting weekend. 

 

Finally, there are two malls nearby Princeton: Market Fair Mall which is a 5-8 minute drive from the middle of town and the Quaker Bridge Mall which is ~ 10 minutes drive south on Route 1. Quaker Bridge is larger and has more department stores. It also has a Cheesecake Factory =-) . 

 

Hopefully that answered your questions. Let me know if anything else comes up!"

 

 

Actually, this does makes Princeton sound like a nice town! The visit cannot come quickly enough, I can't wait to see the place for myself. Thanks for sharing!

[16777216]

Okay, so, here's what he said:

"Starting over the summer is definitely a plus.  I'd estimate that among the organic students, 50% begin in July, 25% begin in August, and 25% begin in September ("on time").  It is definitely possible to start in September and work for whichever PI you want, but you certainly want to clear it with them within a couple of months after you visit (i.e. I would not expect to show up in Sept. not having talked to a popular PI and get into their lab).  

 

PI's definitely prefer for their students to start over the summer.  It gives you an opportunity to get the hang of lab work before classes start to drain your time in September.  My fellow third-year in the Doyle lab and myself both started in July and I'm really glad I did.  I got to hit the ground running with research and get the feel for the lab.  I would highly recommend starting early if possible.

 

The process is not nearly as harrowing as it likely sounds in this email.  The bottom line is you want to contact your PI of choice once you've finished your visiting weekends.  You won't be at much of a competitive disadvantage (if at all) by starting late, you just want to contact the professors before others do."

What are you guys going to do? I'm so worried about this, because I honestly think it would be better for me to get some more internship experience, but on the other hand, my top priority is getting into the lab(s) I want to get into. I wish I could talk to the professors at the visit and then make this decision but I'm fairly sure that news about internships will come back before my visit. What do you guys think?

Like it's great to get settled in the lab beforehand and stuff but that's not worth missing a chance to puff up my industry contacts. Sigh.

[SunnygirlDiana]

What are you guys going to do? I'm so worried about this, because I honestly think it would be better for me to get some more internship experience, but on the other hand, my top priority is getting into the lab(s) I want to get into. I wish I could talk to the professors at the visit and then make this decision but I'm fairly sure that news about internships will come back before my visit. What do you guys think?

Like it's great to get settled in the lab beforehand and stuff but that's not worth missing a chance to puff up my industry contacts. Sigh.

 

 

Hi 16. This is just me...but I'm definitely going to start researching in July. This is mainly because I heard that Professor MacMillan's lab is very competitive and that most students who are successful in joining his lab start researching over the summer (and I would really love to work for him!)

 

I was a little conflicted like you as well because I was considering doing some summer research fellowship in China at Jilin university (I love research abroad and new living abroad experiences!) but I think I will have to give that up because I am looking at the next five years of my life vs one good summer...because in my case it's not necessarily about getting settled in the lab beforehand or not, but it will probably be about being successful in joining the group vs having to join a different group =\

 

In terms of your case, it really depends what you want. If you are doing the internship in order to get more job experience specifically, i dont' think it's worth it because generally undergraduate interns are given easier and less serious work to do, and this work will not be a good reflection of the job opportunities and responsibilities you will have for the work you get after you have a PhD. However, if you are doing it in order to get more industry contacts, then it may be worth it to do so...however, your professor in grad school could also have some industry contacts and help you get a job (though i agree it helps to know some people in the company already too). Personally, I think if the people you will meet are not directly repsonsible for or at least associated with hiring, then it won't help, because a lot of associate and senior scientists are separate from that process. Usually people in HR and the hiring managers will be responsible for that. In any case, it is also possible to get internships later in graduate school with your advisors permission (depends on your advisor), and I have known quite some people who have done this as well, and maybe you would be given more advanced work as well. Just realize that if you take this internship now, it may slightly lower your chances of getting into certain advisors' labs if their labs are really competitive.

 

Overall, I am just trying to say that you should carefully consider the slight risk of taking the internship now, and how it may silghtly lower your chances of getting into your top choice PI's lab, but I do agree that you could still gain valueable industry contacts from it (just not as valuable job experience). If I were you, I would just contact your top choice PI ahead of time and ask them if they prefer that students start work over the summer, or if they are receptive to you doing an internship first, and then act accordingly. You should also ask the graduate students in their lab what they observed their years in terms of what students were accepted into the group because maybe the PI's answer wont' be 100% accurate either. You can reach out to those PI's now via e-mail and let them know you're interested in their research and then ask them their thoughts maybe, as I have talked a bit to Professor MacMillan already as well. This way you won't have to wait until the visit to hear some of their opinions.

 

And as the graduate student mentioned in his e-mail, dont' worry too too much about the "risk" either if you end up taking the internship....he did mention "the process is not as harrowing as it likely sounds in this e-mail"...and that it may not really be a problem at all with some PIs. Just reach out to them and see.

Edited February 4, 2015 by SunnygirlDiana

[16777216]

Hi 16. This is just me...but I'm definitely going to start researching in July. This is mainly because I heard that Professor MacMillan's lab is very competitive and that most students who are successful in joining his lab start researching over the summer (and I would really love to work for him!)

 

I was a little conflicted like you as well because I was considering doing some summer research fellowship in China at Jilin university (I love research abroad and new living abroad experiences!) but I think I will have to give that up because I am looking at the next five years of my life vs one good summer...because in my case it's not necessarily about getting settled in the lab beforehand or not, but it will probably be about being successful in joining the group vs having to join a different group =\

 

In terms of your case, it really depends what you want. If you are doing the internship in order to get more job experience specifically, i dont' think it's worth it because generally undergraduate interns are given easier and less serious work to do, and this work will not be a good reflection of the job opportunities and responsibilities you will have for the work you get after you have a PhD. However, if you are doing it in order to get more industry contacts, then it may be worth it to do so...however, your professor in grad school could also have some industry contacts and help you get a job (though i agree it helps to know some people in the company already too). Personally, I think if the people you will meet are not directly repsonsible for or at least associated with hiring, then it won't help, because a lot of associate and senior scientists are separate from that process. Usually people in HR and the hiring managers will be responsible for that. In any case, it is also possible to get internships later in graduate school with your advisors permission (depends on your advisor), and I have known quite some people who have done this as well, and maybe you would be given more advanced work as well. Just realize that if you take this internship now, it may slightly lower your chances of getting into certain advisors' labs if their labs are really competitive.

 

Overall, I am just trying to say that you should carefully consider the slight risk of taking the internship now, and how it may silghtly lower your chances of getting into your top choice PI's lab, but I do agree that you could still gain valueable industry contacts from it (just not as valuable job experience). If I were you, I would just contact your top choice PI ahead of time and ask them if they prefer that students start work over the summer, or if they are receptive to you doing an internship first, and then act accordingly. You should also ask the graduate students in their lab what they observed their years in terms of what students were accepted into the group because maybe the PI's answer wont' be 100% accurate either. You can reach out to those PI's now via e-mail and let them know you're interested in their research and then ask them their thoughts maybe, as I have talked a bit to Professor MacMillan already as well. This way you won't have to wait until the visit to hear some of their opinions.

 

And as the graduate student mentioned in his e-mail, dont' worry too too much about the "risk" either if you end up taking the internship....he did mention "the process is not as harrowing as it likely sounds in this e-mail"...and that it may not really be a problem at all with some PIs. Just reach out to them and see.

Thanks for your advice, it's solid. It just sucks knowing that pretty much the only reason to start early is because it benefits my PI and not me, and yet, I'm still probably going to do it. This whole process is just so grim, you know.

Oh, also, industry contacts can absolutely help you get a job, even if your contacts are scientists. A lot of companies have a way that scientists can recommend people they know, and that can be the only way your resume even gets looked at, or at least this is what my manager at my last internship told me. It's pretty much irrelevant anyway--which PI you work with is obviously more important--but never underestimate the importance of networking!

Also, my name's Chloe! Although if you wanted to keep calling me 16 I wouldn't be overly opposed, haha.

[SunnygirlDiana]

Hi Chloe! it's nice to talk to you on the forum here and sort of get to know you...my name's Diana (as you might have been able to guess). Im excited to meet you in the fall especially because we'll be organic synthetic buddies and prob taking classes together too

 

Yes, I did agree with you that it is worth it get industry contacts still especially for referrals. But all I meant is that a lot of them don't actually have full power to really get you a job, but it definitely helps to be one of those primarily considered still.

 

Don't think the process is grim!!! You're going to Princeton or UW Madison!! They are both top programs in the country and you are really talented and lucky to be able to get in so you should be happy overall I think everything will turn out fine for you, as your applications seem to have

[fretting]

Thanks for your advice, it's solid. It just sucks knowing that pretty much the only reason to start early is because it benefits my PI and not me, and yet, I'm still probably going to do it. This whole process is just so grim, you know.

Oh, also, industry contacts can absolutely help you get a job, even if your contacts are scientists. A lot of companies have a way that scientists can recommend people they know, and that can be the only way your resume even gets looked at, or at least this is what my manager at my last internship told me. It's pretty much irrelevant anyway--which PI you work with is obviously more important--but never underestimate the importance of networking!

Also, my name's Chloe! Although if you wanted to keep calling me 16 I wouldn't be overly opposed, haha.

 

Ah shucks. Thanks for sharing guys! And anyway, I agree that getting the PI that you want is way more important than getting an internship in! For my case, I'm currently working and I am under contract till early august so i don't think there's any way i can start in the summer. I guess this is something I will have to discuss with the PIs during the visit.

 

anyway, my name is Yong Yao (i know it's not easy to remember so just my initals YY is fine too!) and I think i should be seeing Diana at the visit! As for Chloe, we can probably compare notes about UW Madison and Princeton after our visits!

 

In any case, just wanted to say that in the past few days, Princeton has vaulted firmly into pole position for me, particularly thanks to the information shared in this thread!! 

[Alchemist921]

Hey guys! Princeton is GREAT! That's it. Haha. See you guys in the visit weekends! Any questions, just ask. 

 

-- First Year in Prof. Doyle's lab. 

[SunnygirlDiana]

Hey guys! Princeton is GREAT! That's it. Haha. See you guys in the visit weekends! Any questions, just ask. 

 

-- First Year in Prof. Doyle's lab. 

 

Hi Alchemist!! Thank you sooo much for reaching out to us! You guys really have a great culture in terms of helping out prospective graduate students at Princeton! I was impressed by how many grad students at Princeton have been offering to answer my many questions recently hahaha!

 

Maybe you should start by answering Chloe's (16777216's) question above about whether it would be disadvantageous for her to do an internship this summer instead of coming to work in the lab starting in July...in terms of successfully getting into, for example, Prof. Doyle's lab....

 

As for my questions, I will start with a couple logistical/living questions: 

 

1. I did have a question in terms of parking. I have heard from a few people that parking at princeton can be very competitive and that some of my friends end up just living extremely close to campus and that walking in. Is that true? If so, when do you recommend me to come by and apply for a permit?

 

2. Are you living on campus or off campus now? If you are living off campus, I am curious as to if you think there are any good/cheaper neighborhoods within 10-15 minutes drive of Princeton that I could rent out. I would prefer a one bedroom apartment if possible. Also, what is the average monthly rent in Princeton like for the case where:

 

A. You are sharing a house with four roommates (estimate rent per person please!)

B. Monthly rent for a one bedroom apartment in or near Princeton.

 

And now I have a couple department related questions:

 

1. I want to know a little bit about Princeton's second year qualifying exam, because at my university we only had research proposals in field and out of field. What kind of material/subfields is covered on the test and how thorough or difficult is the material (undergraduate or graduate level?)? Did you study for it a lot/ how long did you study? And did you find the qualifiers in general (proposals and exam) to be stressful or difficult?

 

2. I also have another question in terms of the use of equipment around the department. In particular, do you guys have NMR technicians or are students allowed to take their own NMRs and use the instruments themselves? And what is the availability and the system of using (technicians vs independent use) things like GC-MS, esi-MS, IR?

 

Please let me know whenever you get time!! Thanks in advance for your time and consideration!