Latin Proficiency Requirement for Lit. PhD

[Guest Jessie]

Hi all,

I was accepted into a Lit. PhD program that requires me to demonstrate proficiency in a language other than the one required for my specialty (French Lit.) as well as in Latin. This requirement does not have to be met until I acceed to the M.Phil level, which in my case is about a year or so away, and even then I still have until the completion of the M.Phil to meet it. I have proficiency in Spanish already (a language they will accept) but I am not sure when to begin acquiring some Latin skills.

Here is my dilemma: Should I take on Latin coursework during my first year (I would be taking 4 courses per semester), or should I wait until my third summer (which might be best utilized to do some research) since my second summer is to be devoted to researching and writing a first draft on my Master's thesis. I basically wonder about the most efficient (yet sane) path to take. If anyone has first-hand experience or simply an insight or two, I would appreciate it! Thanks.

[DespSeekPhd]

I have to learn Latin for my MA in medieval history. I'm going the independent learning route, though - at least for now. Wheelock's is great for self-teaching, and the advantage is that you can fit it in where you want. The entire book is supposed to be equivalent to a year of college Latin, so I figure that I'll learn it, test myslef, and if I still need help, I'll take a class (which at that point will be review and hence less stress). I have the book and workbook, but I didn't get the guide, which some say is helpful, but I haven't needed it yet.

Just as another option...

[Guest Jessie]

Thanks Depseeking... I think that is the best path to take after all. I now feel as though I had a momentary lapse into panic (thinking about all that there is to do, learn etc.) and forgot that there is actually more time than I think, and that just like everything else it's just a matter of getting down to doing it...

I will look into your suggested materials, thanks again and best of luck to you!

[Minnesotan]

Something I found extremely helpful when I was first starting to translate is the little "Disce Latinum: Latin Grammar" book by R.O. Marshall. It's 46 pages of nothing but tables, charts, and exempla, so that you don't have to flip through your gigantic copy of Wheelock's (or whatever tome you're using) to remind yourself that what you're looking at is a fourth declension accusative ending.

It was five pound at Blackwells in Oxford, so you can probably find it for $9 in the states.

[Romlit]

I've never really understood how one can learn a language by themselves, enough to be proficient enough to read or even speak. Are you really able to read and understand texts after teaching yourself a language. I've studied French formally for 7 years and it's still a challenge to go through Sarte, Camus, Balzac... and write my essays in French!

[DespSeekPhd]

Well, most people used to learn languages by themselves, until the 20th century. We as a society have gotten used to people "teaching" us and seem to have forgotten how to "teach" ourselves.

That having been said, some people just struggle with languages and need extra help. I'm generally pretty good at teaching myself as long as I keep up with it. But again, if I'm struggling with it, I can always take a class as a refresher. Plus, French is notoriously difficult to learn on one's own, because the pronunciation is so difficult to master. Most languages (at least the European ones I'm familiar with) are far easier.

[Minnesotan]

If you are able to self-motivate and keep at it, Classical Latin is very easy to learn on your own. You've gotta love the Romans and all their wonderfully strict rules!

[philosophia]

Also, there is a big difference between learning to read with a dictionary for basic understanding or to clarify the use of specific terms and being able to use it (whether writing or speaking). Which is not to say that it is easy to learn to read languages, but it is a type of skill that is much easier to pick up on your own than, say, carrying on a conversation or writing. The expectation is very different than in an undergraduate or high school course where these aspects are more important.

And I second the Wheelock's suggestion. I've done some latin but never got it to the point I wanted it at so I'm working through it over the summer since I've got some time. It's easy enough to do, and you can suppliment it the other books and websites designed to be used with it. Then when (if) you take a course it will be pretty simple.

[cheryl]

I just wrote a long post explaining why I think you should take a class as opposed to studying on your own, but I accidentally closed it before I submitted it. I'll abridge. No bones about it: Latin is tough, and real Latin (as in, Cicero, Horace, Tacitus - your basic primary authors that will probably appear on a language exam) bears only a slight resemblence to the exercises and sentences you'll find in a grammar book. They're clever; they play with words and structure. You have to recognize the nuances. Latin grammar seems very straightforward, even overly specific, at first glance, but each case can be used in many different ways and each word can have many different, sometimes even contradictory meanings. And you don't get any prepositions, regular word order, or long marks to help you along the way. I took Latin every semester for four years with excellent professors, and it still takes me a good 30 minutes to an hour to translate a page of Latin, depending on its difficulty. Dead languages are not something to be undertaken lightly. To acquire real proficiency, I think that coursework is necessary. UNLESS, however, you can somehow take a medieval Latin exam rather than classical. With a good medieval glossary and a standard Latin grammar book, I think you'll be able to get by since it's much closer to modern Romance languages in word order and usage (they actually overuse prepositions!), and also you won't be put off or befuddled by the changes in grammar and such from classical Latin.

So that's my two cents, but probably the best person to ask will be one of your profs. They'll know the level of difficulty of the texts on your school's language exam, and thus how much preparation you'll need.

[Isidore]

If you have a summer to spare, check out CUNY's summer Latin program. It was STRONGLY recommended by all the medievalists at the University I attended. (I was accepted this past summer, but couldn't get funding.) While this might not seem like the "sanest" path, 10 straight weeks of immersion would surely do the trick.