PHD in UK-Please contribute

[Francophile1]

Hello All,

 

I would like to get some advice on UK phd's at a top school such as Oxford or Cambridge. I know there are many controversies about getting a PhD abroad but I wanted to get specific information about the top rated programs with already an MA from US.

I have teaching experience as part of my MA in the US and I am wondering if this, and the fact that I would attend such a high ranking program as Oxford or Cambridge would help me in the job market.

 

Also what if I will get some teaching experience in the UK after my PHD, would that help as well if applying for the job market i the US later?

 

Finally,

Let's say I only get in a mid ranking Phd program in the US and a top school in the UK, which one would you choose for best possibilities for the future?

[wetheplants]

I don't have any input from you, but I'm interested in knowing the same. I'm applying to Masters at the moment, but with the intention of boosting my name pedigree upwards with each step, and eventually going for a PhD. I'm also very interested in Oxford and Cambridge, partially because the PhDs are so much shorter!

[TakeruK]

When applying to PhD programs (I was finishing up a MSc), I talked to several North American professors about getting a PhD in the UK if I want to work in North America. It turns out that (at least in my field) there are three main disadvantages to a UK PhD for those looking to work in North America. But there is a "remedy" for each.

 

1. PhD programs are shorter, which can be good and bad. The good is obvious! The bad is that with only 3 years, it's tough to get a lot of papers out. I've experienced this first hand too -- It took me 2.5 years in my current PhD program to get my first paper out but with that foundation, I expect to get 2 more papers this calendar year. If I were to leave for a postdoc after 3 years, the transition would greatly delay paper production. So, a UK PhD graduate usually cannot compete as strongly against North American PhD graduates for prestigious postdoctoral fellowships because your paper count matters and due to the "startup time", you can be way more productive in 5 years than 3 years.

 

It's also not just paper count--someone with 5 years has more time to gain exposure via conference talks, networking etc. So, North American profs tell me that usually if you go to the UK or Europe for a PhD (with the intent of returning), you usually end up doing a 3 year PhD + 2-3 year postdoc before you are able to compete against North American PhDs. Luckily, most prize postdocs allow PhDs from the last 3 years to apply, not just new graduates, but this would mean you might miss out on a few postdoc opportunities.

 

2. Schools abroad may not have as much of a reputation in North American research circles. However, this is definitely not a concern when you are talking about schools like Oxford and Cambridge!!

 

3. Being on another continent means it's hard to network with North American colleagues. Conferences in North America are going to cost a lot more. Also, in my field, many PhD students in their final year do talk circuits where they try to give as many department symposia as possible prior to or during the postdoc application cycle. This is harder to arrange from another continent. However, with work, one can overcome it, and if you have family in North America, you might combine a personal and business visit.

[Francophile1]

I don't have any input from you, but I'm interested in knowing the same. I'm applying to Masters at the moment, but with the intention of boosting my name pedigree upwards with each step, and eventually going for a PhD. I'm also very interested in Oxford and Cambridge, partially because the PhDs are so much shorter!

Yes while it is very good that PhD's there are shorter I think there are many pro's and con's that need to be considered. As far as Master's go, I actually just contacted Oxford and they said that one would have to tale a MSC or basically a 1 or 2 yr master's if you do not have a thesis style paper (10,000 words or more) becaus etheir PhD requires you to submit a PhD style proposal, so for  us this is what we do in a regular US Phd in year 3, 4. 

[Francophile1]

When applying to PhD programs (I was finishing up a MSc), I talked to several North American professors about getting a PhD in the UK if I want to work in North America. It turns out that (at least in my field) there are three main disadvantages to a UK PhD for those looking to work in North America. But there is a "remedy" for each.

 

1. PhD programs are shorter, which can be good and bad. The good is obvious! The bad is that with only 3 years, it's tough to get a lot of papers out. I've experienced this first hand too -- It took me 2.5 years in my current PhD program to get my first paper out but with that foundation, I expect to get 2 more papers this calendar year. If I were to leave for a postdoc after 3 years, the transition would greatly delay paper production. So, a UK PhD graduate usually cannot compete as strongly against North American PhD graduates for prestigious postdoctoral fellowships because your paper count matters and due to the "startup time", you can be way more productive in 5 years than 3 years.

 

It's also not just paper count--someone with 5 years has more time to gain exposure via conference talks, networking etc. So, North American profs tell me that usually if you go to the UK or Europe for a PhD (with the intent of returning), you usually end up doing a 3 year PhD + 2-3 year postdoc before you are able to compete against North American PhDs. Luckily, most prize postdocs allow PhDs from the last 3 years to apply, not just new graduates, but this would mean you might miss out on a few postdoc opportunities.

 

2. Schools abroad may not have as much of a reputation in North American research circles. However, this is definitely not a concern when you are talking about schools like Oxford and Cambridge!!

 

3. Being on another continent means it's hard to network with North American colleagues. Conferences in North America are going to cost a lot more. Also, in my field, many PhD students in their final year do talk circuits where they try to give as many department symposia as possible prior to or during the postdoc application cycle. This is harder to arrange from another continent. However, with work, one can overcome it, and if you have family in North America, you might combine a personal and business visit.

Thanks very much. Yes I am aware of all these problems and thanks for the extra info, however i was also wondering about the following scenario.

Let's say I apply to one of the top ivies in my field as well as the "ivies" in the Uk like Oxford or Cambridge. If I am not accepted by US ivies would it be beneficial to go to the UK ivies or would you choose the middle tier universiy over Uk Ivies?

[TakeruK]

Thanks very much. Yes I am aware of all these problems and thanks for the extra info, however i was also wondering about the following scenario.

Let's say I apply to one of the top ivies in my field as well as the "ivies" in the Uk like Oxford or Cambridge. If I am not accepted by US ivies would it be beneficial to go to the UK ivies or would you choose the middle tier universiy over Uk Ivies?

 

I don't think there is a straight answer to that. Just treat the UK schools like US schools as long as you keep the above considerations in mind. After considering for the distance, do you still feel that the UK schools give you a better opportunity at your goals?

[wetheplants]

Thanks very much. Yes I am aware of all these problems and thanks for the extra info, however i was also wondering about the following scenario.

Let's say I apply to one of the top ivies in my field as well as the "ivies" in the Uk like Oxford or Cambridge. If I am not accepted by US ivies would it be beneficial to go to the UK ivies or would you choose the middle tier universiy over Uk Ivies?

I'm wondering the same thing. I think it also depends on your field - I'm interested in medieval/early modern drama, so I know that the departments tend to be a bit stronger in England - not everywhere in the US has a sizable medieval faculty, let alone a really good one. 

[happy little pill]

I know that this thread has been dormant for a few weeks, but I just wanted to jump in and say think that the poster above is right. My area of studies (Fashion Studies) is extremely limited as it's an emerging field and I can probably list all the relevant key scholars on one hand and they're all located in the UK except for one professor who is in Canada. So for me, even though I'd eventually like to work in the US in a Museum Studies/Art History/Cultural Studies department, it doesn't make sense to do my PhD in a US institution because I'd be reaching out to people in the UK all the time anyways. Because most of the young scholars are also studying in UK institutions as well, the journals in my field tend to go with the flow of those programs and you don't have to wait as far into your degree to start publishing articles with them as you might in a more established, competitive discipline. So it really all depends. I would say go for what feels right for your work. If you're at the wrong institution, you're going to have one hell of a time for the entire five years that you're there.