benefits of JD/PhD?

[kameldinho]

I'm an economics BA/MA student who will be applying this fall and my interests are public law and (American) political economy, specifically judicial decision making and the interaction between federal courts and the legislative/executive branches. I've noticed quite a bit of JD/PhD programs and I am wondering, given my interests in law, would it be worth applying to these programs? What are the benefits over simply having just a PhD? I'd assume that it would make it easier to place into a law schools (and get a higher salary), but are there any other benefits? I really don't see myself as a law student, but there are a few law classes that I think would be beneficial to my research. Could I achieve the same outcome by just simply enrolling as a PhD student and taking the odd law class? Thanks!

[Doorkeeper]

You definitely need to get the JD if you want to have a realistic chance of placing into a law school as an Assistant Professor.  Although there are some law faculty with only a PhD in a cognate discipline, they normally lateral over when they're already senior and well-established in their respective discipline. Basically the JD/PhD gives you access to two different job markets (Political Science and Law) when you're young, as opposed to only one market.

 

Law teaching has a number of benefits over teaching in a Political Science department, including: i) at least double the pay, ii) less course load during the year, iii) easier tenure standards, and iv) increased research support.

 

This being said, the JD adds another 2 years to your timeline if you did a joint JD/PhD, so I would think carefully as to whether you actually want to get a full legal education, as opposed to simply cross registering for a few classes.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Doorkeeper

[law2phd]

Law schools are also currently in the middle of a death spiral, with the lowest number of people seeking admission in more than 40 years.  There are no longer enough applicants to fill top schools with people capable of tying their shoes and chewing gum at the same time, and lower schools can't fill their seats, period.  I think that for the foreseeable future, the focus is going to be on cutting budgets without being able to get rid of tenured faculty, not hiring new people.

 

I really wouldn't recommend a JD for anything these days.

 

Edit: Also note that some top schools provide fellowships to do work at the law school, if it's really necessary for your interests.  See: http://gsas.nyu.edu/object/grad.lawfellows

Edited March 12, 2015 by law2phd

[bob123]

 

I really wouldn't recommend a JD for anything these days.

 

 

 

This is bad advice. Still worth it to do a JD at HYS or at least half funded (if not full) at CCN. Below that, maybe not worth it. 

 

For academia? Going to be tough, but stick with HYS or full funding at CCN (Rubenstein at Chi, Hamilton at Columbia, Furman at NYU) and hope for a high level CoA or Supreme Court Clerkship. 

 

For poli sci faculty academia? Honestly just try to get a JD-PhD at H, Y, S, or maybe like NYU/Columbia-Princeton. Otherwise don't bother really.

Edited March 13, 2015 by bob123

[law2phd]

This is bad advice.

 

As someone who has actually done exactly what you suggested at one of the schools you suggested, I thought that my experience in doing so (and the fact that it did absolutely nothing for my career in polisci) might provide some basis for offering an opinion on the matter.  But, hey, thanks for the downvote 

Edited March 13, 2015 by law2phd

[bob123]

As someone who has actually done exactly what you suggested at one of the schools you suggested, I thought that my experience in doing so (and the fact that it did absolutely nothing for my career in polisci) might provide some basis for offering an opinion on the matter.  But, hey, thanks for the downvote 

 

Not recommending at JD for anything is an extreme position. I excised the rest of your post from that quote because I agreed with it. Would you not recommend a JD for someone who is considering legal academia but who thinks he/she might be happy practicing if that potential path falls through? Do you think that practicing law is a terrible safety net relative to the available safety nets for poli sci PhD students? What if OP or some other person wants to teach in a law faculty instead of a poli sci faculty? I'm not sure your chances of placing into a TT law faculty job out of HYS Law are significantly worse than your chances of placing into a TT poli sci job out of CHYMPS.  

 

But yes, I agree that doing a JD just to "take a few classes in law" is moronic. Also OP should note that you can usually just audit/sit in on law classes as a university grad student with no problem. So there's that.

Edited March 13, 2015 by bob123

[law2phd]

Edit: Removed.  OP doesn't need a multipage rant on how awful the law/teaching market is now 

Edited March 13, 2015 by law2phd

[kameldinho]

Thanks for the response. The advice I got from PSR is similar to what law2phd is saying: laws schools are on the decline at the moment and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I'm not interested in practicing law at all; my only goal is to become an academic who does research on law and political economy. From what I've been told, a lot of people got tenured in law schools with big salaries during the height of the law school bubble but now that enrollment rates are falling hiring has slowed down dramatically. I think I'll focus on the PhD exclusively.