Offered admission to NYU Wagner EMPA instead of MPA

[DavidWDC]

I have been a practicing lawyer for some time and came to a decision to change careers and work in health policy.

I applied to NYU Wagner, my top choice, and was rejected for the MPA in Health Policy and Management. Instead they admitted me into an EMPA program.

How are EMPAs viewed, versus MPAs, especially by potential employers? Is it a waste of time? Is it a consolation prize of less academic and professional value and rigor, or is it merely more applicable to someone who has been working for a long time? (By the way -- I am leaving law practice, so there is no full-time job I would be going to, and no company sponsoring me.) Is this merely a degree, as I suspect, that makes money for Wagner and serves to burnish credentials for persons who are already on a track in their chosen career, as opposed to changing direction, as I am?

I'm at a loss here as to what to do. Any feedback on a so-called "Executive" MPA (EMPA), how it is perceived and valued, would be appreciated.

[Admin445]

I have been a practicing lawyer for some time and came to a decision to change careers and work in health policy.

I applied to NYU Wagner, my top choice, and was rejected for the MPA in Health Policy and Management. Instead they admitted me into an EMPA program.

How are EMPAs viewed, versus MPAs, especially by potential employers? Is it a waste of time? Is it a consolation prize of less academic and professional value and rigor, or is it merely more applicable to someone who has been working for a long time? (By the way -- I am leaving law practice, so there is no full-time job I would be going to, and no company sponsoring me.) Is this merely a degree, as I suspect, that makes money for Wagner and serves to burnish credentials for persons who are already on a track in their chosen career, as opposed to changing direction, as I am?

I'm at a loss here as to what to do. Any feedback on a so-called "Executive" MPA (EMPA), how it is perceived and valued, would be appreciated.

The EMPA program at Wagner is awesome for people that are already have "work experience." You can select classes from all of the schools including the law school: therefore, your time at Wagner is what you make it. Gaby And David are awesome and Dean Schall is available as well- the networking is unbelievable and the professors are second to none! The class discussions are mind blowing; in my classes there have been doctors, lawyers, educators, hospital administrators, police executives, fire, military, you name it! I love Wagner!

[Octavia]

The EMPA program at Wagner is awesome for people that are already have "work experience." You can select classes from all of the schools including the law school: therefore, your time at Wagner is what you make it. Gaby And David are awesome and Dean Schall is available as well- the networking is unbelievable and the professors are second to none! The class discussions are mind blowing; in my classes there have been doctors, lawyers, educators, hospital administrators, police executives, fire, military, you name it! I love Wagner!

First of all, I've heard really bad things about Wagner (regular MPA). One of my colleagues actually dropped out of the program. She had 5 years of work experience at the UN and felt she was in class with kids, who simply had no clue what they wanted to do and vague dreams about working for the UN. I've taken a few classes there myself and shall never do it again.

Second, another friend had a similar situation to yours except it happened at Columbia. She was rejected by the regular MPA at SIPA and admitted to the EMPA there. Meaning, she was asked to pay full tutition for a program that isn't even nearly as good as the regular MPA. Regular MPA offers fundind, albeit modest and usually to second year student. EMPA give you big fat $0. To be brief, she said it was a huge waste of time and told me to never even consieder Executive Program. She said that the quality of student body and classes just wasn't what it should be. Compared to regular MPA students, she received no guidance or coaching and was left with enormous debt.

Since you are asking about potential employers' view, I cannot answer in general but I can tell you that at my Division (of the UN Peace Operations), the management would never consider anybody with an executive MBA or MPA. In fact, the guidelines specifically mention that a successful candidate would need an MBA and/or MPA in Finance (a 2-year full time programs).

[Admin445]

First of all, I've heard really bad things about Wagner (regular MPA). One of my colleagues actually dropped out of the program. She had 5 years of work experience at the UN and felt she was in class with kids, who simply had no clue what they wanted to do and vague dreams about working for the UN. I've taken a few classes there myself and shall never do it again.

Second, another friend had a similar situation to yours except it happened at Columbia. She was rejected by the regular MPA at SIPA and admitted to the EMPA there. Meaning, she was asked to pay full tutition for a program that isn't even nearly as good as the regular MPA. Regular MPA offers fundind, albeit modest and usually to second year student. EMPA give you big fat $0. To be brief, she said it was a huge waste of time and told me to never even consieder Executive Program. She said that the quality of student body and classes just wasn't what it should be. Compared to regular MPA students, she received no guidance or coaching and was left with enormous debt.

Since you are asking about potential employers' view, I cannot answer in general but I can tell you that at my Division (of the UN Peace Operations), the management would never consider anybody with an executive MBA or MPA. In fact, the guidelines specifically mention that a successful candidate would need an MBA and/or MPA in Finance (a 2-year full time programs).

That's odd that you have heard bad things about Wagner- most people including most "rankings" indicate Wagner is a pretty good program. Additionally, I've noticed that the MPA crowd tends to be much younger than the EMPA crowd. As I previously stated, most people are already professionals with a wealth of work experience. They are not looking for their first employer; moreover, EMPA students are allowed to take the same classes as MPA/MPP students-your experience is what you make it. The comment about no guidance or coaching leads me to believe you don't even know where Wagner is. What classes did you take? What was lacking? There is probably too much "guidance and coaching." The experience is what you make it.

[Octavia]

That's odd that you have heard bad things about Wagner- most people including most "rankings" indicate Wagner is a pretty good program. Additionally, I've noticed that the MPA crowd tends to be much younger than the EMPA crowd. As I previously stated, most people are already professionals with a wealth of work experience. They are not looking for their first employer; moreover, EMPA students are allowed to take the same classes as MPA/MPP students-your experience is what you make it. The comment about no guidance or coaching leads me to believe you don't even know where Wagner is. What classes did you take? What was lacking? There is probably too much "guidance and coaching." The experience is what you make it.

Well, I live & work in NYC. Opinions spread quickly. You are right that the MPA crowd tends to be much younger. For what you are describing you wish to accomplish, perhaps a mid-career MPP at Princeton or MPA at Harvard sound like a better idea. To be very honest, the opinion I hear over and over again about the difference between MPA and EMPA is that if you don't get into regular MPA, you go for an EMPA (people tend to be less impressive, with lower GREs, GPAs and, of course, there is no financial aid). I have no idea if that is in fact true.

The two examples I described above were about two very experienced individuals with goals similar to yours who went for executive MPAs at Wagner and Columbia and felt it was a waste of time due to quality of classes and student body. In fact, the one that went to Columbia felt that the folks from regular MPA actually had more impressive exprience and resumes despite being, on average, younger. The comment about guidance and coaching was about Columbia's EMPA specifically. I took classes at Wagner after work, with no expectation of coaching or guidance. The majority of classes were in finance/budget etc because my employer pays for courses taken within the scope of our work.

You are absolutely right, your exprience is what you make of it. Then go ahead and enroll at Wagner. I just hope you don't regret the money and effort put into it. It might turn out that your law degree is actually more valuable than the EMPA.

[steiner-5]

I am not sure I'd do an EMPA for a career change. In my experience, EMPAs/EMBAs are usually sponsored by companies for their management to, as you say, burnish their credentials.

I suspect your law degree will be much more valuable than an EMPA OR an MPA, regardless of what field you're transitioning to. I just perceive it as a money maker for the university, and it is, since most students are in fact sponsored.

This is not to say it's a waste of time. You may very well gain valuable exposure in the field and make good contacts with similarly situated students. Whether it's worth that kind of tuition, on the other hand, is up to you.

I have to wonder why they are offering admission to the EMPA if they rejected you from the MPA if the curricula are equally rigorous. It can't be just age. I am also a mid-career changer, and I was not encouraged to look into any executive programs at all.

I suspect your instincts are correct about the program, though, again, programs are often what you make it. I would just consider the opportunity costs of enrolling here versus another program.

Good Luck!

[refinedsmarts]

I had a similar thing happen to me with Wagner. I’m wondering how common this is? I have a background in Data Analytics. I’ve been working in the field for 3 years. I earned my Bachelor of Science in Computer Information Systems with an Analytics concentration. I decided I wanted to work on a public policy so I applied to the Master of Science in Public Policy Analysis (MSPP) program beginning Fall 2021. I was denied admission to the MSPP program but offered an alternative admission to the Master of Public Administration in Private and Nonprofit Management and Policy (MPA-PNP) program. I didn’t even know schools could do this. I don’t want to work in the non-profit world. Occasional community service is fine and maybe a fellowship to help the organization solve a problem but my career is in public policy in the public and private sector, not non-profit. I want to be a lobbyist or senior congressional staffer or government contractor with top clearance.
 

To add insult to injury, the letter invited me to have a conversation about the decision. When I had a Zoom conference the Admissions Officer with whom I spoke was rude, condescending and kept mentioning GRE scores that the university waived and wouldn’t even accept due to the COVID-19 pandemic. She also said I didn’t have enough statistics course work in college which wasn’t true. And last I checked their admissions a pages says the use a holistic model that looks at education, GPA, career  and volunteer experience. It just doesn’t make sense to me that a data analyst can’t get into a policy analysis program that’s based on “analytics”. I call bull crap. 

I think it’s a money gimmick like someone else said in this thread. The MSPP program is 1 year long and they threw me in a 2-year program to stretch out the money. I’ll probably look into Princeton’s program. If I’m going to be forced to shovel out more money than I planned and take twice as long to get a degree it’s going to be the degree I want. And it never hurts to go Ivy League.