York

[Minnesotan]

Why is nobody else going to York? I feel so alone!

[JTJ]

I'll be at York in September!!!

[Minnesotan]

Woo! What program?

[JTJ]

Humanities PhD. I actually went to York for undergrad, so it should be interesting being there as a grad student. I guess there are pros and cons to that.

What program are you in? And since you started this thread last year, I'm assuming you've been there for about a year already. How do you like it so far?

[Minnesotan]

York is pretty much how everyone described it: good academics and a shitty social scene. I like it, though. I think I am getting a lot more work done than if I would have accepted an offer from a school that's actually in the city they say they're in. ha!

I'm finishing up an MA, so the lameness of North York and the impersonal nature of commuter colleges is no big deal for me. If I was stuck here for seven years, though, I think I would go apeshit.

[JTJ]

I can see what you're saying about York. It's a commuter school. That's why I would never be able to live near there. I've lived in Toronto most of my life, and I can't ever see myself living that far north of bloor! I just hope academically I get a different vibe from the school than I did as an undergrad.

[Minnesotan]

From my experience teaching, the grad scene is absolutely nothing like the undergrad. For undergrads, this is just a degree factory, like any land-grant university in the states. Classes with hundreds of students, almost completely taught by the TAs; undergrads who are just here to party; professors that don't give two shits about the undergrads; etc. As a grad student, people actually care about you and your work. Also, you get to work with the good professors, while all the newbies are stuck teaching undergrad courses.

[JTJ]

Your impression of what it is like for undergrads at York is quite interesting. I've heard that from many people - undergrads at York, visiting students, and professors alike. However, that was not my experience at all as an undergraduate student there. I was in a very small and specialized program though with extremely small classes, independent studies, and amazing profs. I just never felt intellectually stimulated by the other students. It seems though that you enjoy the academics thereas a grad student, so this is quite hopeful!

[Minnesotan]

The only people in my program who can't seem to hold their own have backgrounds in education, or grandfathered their way in with a B.A. from York. The others I've met have been interesting, intelligent people who have traveled extensively; great folks to have a beer with. I think you'll see the same thing in most any grad school, though - there will always be plenty of teachers, and insiders taking advantage of a university's willingness to intellectually inbreed, to lower the average IQ of a room (or, at least, the life experience that greatly contributes to the community's knowledge).

As for the 'degree factory' impression, of course it depends upon the program and student in question. I've taught some exceptionally bright kids who do very well in smaller programs, and some unbelievably shallow and ignorant kids (Paris Hilton look-alikes and those guys who only speak if it's hockey-related) who rightly have no desire to separate themselves from the other 200 students in lecture - as long as they can skate through unnoticed, they're happy with their C.

Anyhoo, it's a bit different in grad school, no matter where you go. As an undergrad, you were separated by class most of the time (freshman composition, senior seminar, etc.), only mixing with people a year above or below you. As a new grad student in the humanities, you're often thown into a seminar with a bunch of third- or fourth-year phd students who have done a helluva lot more reading than you, and who have found their groove, so to speak. It's amazing when I think about the difference in the level of discourse between a class I took at my undergrad (all of us were seniors and history majors) and the one I'm in now, only a year later. It's like two different worlds.

[JTJ]

Thanks for the insight. I'm completing my Master's elsewhere, which I am really enjoying, so I'm very hesitant about returning to York. One of my major worries is about not being exposed to the same level of intellectual stimulation among my peers that I have been so fortunate to have experienced this year both in and out of the classroom. (and elsewhere as a visiting student at other institutions in previous years) In the end though, it makes the most sense for me to return to York out of all the schools to which I was accepted, due to specific faculty members there with whom I will be working. (despite the "academic inbreeding," although I don't think that necessarily "lowers the average IQ of a room"...) If I were to go elsewhere, I would need to change my field. Anyway, thanks for your personal insight into the graduate experience at York. And out of curiousity, why are there 3rd and 4th year phd students still doing course work?

[Minnesotan]

History phds average 6.5 years to complete these days (according to a study I read in a recently published grad prep book; I hear horror stories about people taking 8 years!). That means, despite the investment of time, people are a little more free to, say, take a 2/3 load when teaching, or what have you. Maybe he was part timing it for a year or something, but I had a 4th year phd candidate in the seminar I just finished.

Again, if something looked highly relevant to my dissertation topic and I was in my 3rd or 4th year, I would probably go audit the course.

As for the intellectual inbreeding, I'm sure you're right - the average IQ of the room stays the same. However, the potential for introducing new and varied experiences decreases. The likelihood of introducing a new approach, one not taken at the present school, is reduced. And, pardon me for saying it, people who do their undergrad-ma-phd in the same school are sometimes relying on the kindness of professors to fill in the gaps in their application packages (which some are quite willing to do). Lower quality people are going to get in because a certain professor likes them.

It used to be people were shocked when someone did an ma at one school and a phd at another. To me, it seems a better way to go. New experiences, new people, new pedagogies, new connections to be made with other grad students and professors... invaluable!

Anyway, we're way off topic. I like York just fine, but I plan to leave if I get a good offer next year. If you already realize the situation the college is in (being located in the middle of nowhere), then you'll probably love grad school here.