Advantages of Pursuing the (Funded) MA

[qwer7890]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread: humanities departments across the board (I think) are under pressure to decrease time-to-degree for PhD students. University administrations are incentivising this... and so departments, increasingly, have a vested (and often financial) interest in admitting students whom they suspect will be able to get to and complete a dissertation quickly. I think this, in part, accounts for Wyatt’s Torch anecdotal observation: “I also have the distinct sense that candidates with M.A. degrees in hand were largely favored over B.A. candidates this season. There were many exceptions, of course, but it feels more 70/30 than 50/50.” Which I think is right. The system is set up to favor students with M.A.’s -- increasingly more so.

 

Which is to say, if you didn’t get into your top Ph.D. program and have the option to go for a funded M.A. — by all means do it. But as a general trend (Ph.D. programs, in a sense, outsourcing coursework to M.A. programs, many of which are unfunded), it's perhaps something to worry about.

Edited April 29, 2015 by qwer7890

[ToldAgain]

Which is to say, if you didn’t get into your top Ph.D. program and have the option to go for a funded M.A. — by all means do it. But as a general trend (Ph.D. programs, in a sense, outsourcing coursework to M.A. programs, many of which are unfunded), it's perhaps something to worry about.

 

qwer, I see that trend in Philosophy, which is, according to those folks, the most selective humanities grad program. I can certainly understand the economics of it.

 

-As grad programs become more selective, applicants with an MA will appear to carry less risk.

-As applicants with an MA appear more favorable, applicants with BAs will more and more look to terminal MA programs.

-As terminal MA programs get more applicants, more of these nonfunded MA programs will get people who are willing to pay, because they want to look good for their PhD applications.

 

I read a Philosophy applicant lamenting the fact that almost no MA programs guarantee admission to the PhD upon satisfactory completion of the MA. Also, most MA programs cost something and don't offer stipends.

 

It would be too bad if English went down this path, especially if they eliminate the funded MA/PhD programs. This is what I am doing, and I feel very free to look where else I can go after my MA, but knowing that I have guaranteed admission to a great PhD program as it is. This is a serious gift that some schools give grad students. It would be sad to see it go.

Edited April 29, 2015 by ToldAgain

[SilasWegg]

morristr, could you give me an example of your timeline in this case? I ask because I am looking at the schedule of my MA vs. the schedule of my PhD applications if I don't continue on at my MA institution, and it looks like I would be beginning my application season at the same time I would start to seriously think about the dissertation. That is, in the second year. I personally would want to have all of my SOPs at least mostly fleshed out in the summer before my second year. So, it seems to me that there isn't a lot of time to integrate the dissertation into the application. I may be wrong.

 

I can see how the dissertation provides some great practice for PhD work, but I can't see myself knowing enough about it to talk about it knowledgeably in an SOP or use a chapter as a writing sample. I do see the idea of putting a committee together as being helpful for letters of rec, though.

 

So, again: What was your timeline for your dissertation? When did you come up with your topic? When did you have a good writing sample created? Etc. etc.

 

ToldAgain, I'm a little confused about the question but I can do my best to answer. After the first year of coursework in the MA, I proposed the topic and formed the committee during the summer (before this past application season). Fall 2014, I composed one chapter, which served as the WS (with some tweaks). I circulated the chapter/WS among the committee as an intermediate draft and got some feedback. The committee wrote letters based on this chapter draft as well as previous coursework we had done together. I wrote all the other thesis chapters this semester (ack!). At the program PhD program I will attend in the Fall 2015, dissertation writing doesn't happen until the third or fourth year. So, in theory, the research for the MA thesis can sort of marinate, or I can build on it, or never look at it again. Regardless, the idea is that it prepared to me to devise and execute a larger independent research project before beginning a dissertation.

 

Are you in a direct-admit MA? If so, that process is totally different and I have no idea how it works. My MA was terminal, so I had to transfer out to do the PhD.

[ToldAgain]

Yes, I'm in a direct-admit MA, but I am trying to keep my options open for moving out of the program if I wanted to. Who knows if I would actually take that choice or not.

 

You understood the question perfectly. It's good to know I am at least understandable by osmosis. I was just curious about the timeline for completion of your dissertation. Thanks for the comprehensive reply!

[qwer7890]

qwer, I see that trend in Philosophy, which is, according to those folks, the most selective humanities grad program. I can certainly understand the economics of it.

 

-As grad programs become more selective, applicants with an MA will appear to carry less risk.

-As applicants with an MA appear more favorable, applicants with BAs will more and more look to terminal MA programs.

-As terminal MA programs get more applicants, more of these nonfunded MA programs will get people who are willing to pay, because they want to look good for their PhD applications.

 

[...] It would be too bad if English went down this path, especially if they eliminate the funded MA/PhD programs. This is what I am doing, and I feel very free to look where else I can go after my MA, but knowing that I have guaranteed admission to a great PhD program as it is. This is a serious gift that some schools give grad students. It would be sad to see it go.

 

right! and even more than just too bad and sad... this sort of system puts up huge roadblocks in the paths of first generation, lower income, older, and really, any sort of "non-traditional" students. I'm not saying that individuals can't overcome these roadblocks... certainly they can, but the system isn't on their side. Silencing the perspectives such students and scholars bring into the University is a disservice to us all.

 

Also -- sorry to the thread for (possibly) derailing a very productive conversation about the real, on the ground, benefits of a funded M.A. Anecdotally, I benefitted tremendously from a funded M.A. before applying to Ph.D. programs, and would encourage others to do so too if that option is on the table. To answer the title of this thread "Advantages of Pursuing the (Funded) MA" -- I'd say yes (I know it's not a yes or no question) -- under almost all circumstances it's almost always advantageous to pursue a funded M.A. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by qwer7890

[cjmullis]

Hi all! I'm going to be pursuing a mostly funded (fully funded if they decide to give me an assistanship or fellowship...) MA program beginning this Fall. I had 3 unfunded MA acceptances and only rejections from PhDs, so my choice to attend my program was relatively easy.

My background is at a small, public "party school" in the southeast, so I wasn't even  prepared for the PhD applications when I applied. Perhaps this should have been a hint that I needed not apply, but I didn't pick up on it. I feel like the PhD programs encourage applicants straight out of undergrad to apply, probably just to get the hefty application fees and in order to be able to say that they rejected 500 people. I do not see any possible way that I as an undergrad could compete with someone who has an MA. That being said, I know there are people who go straight to top MA/ PhD programs, but I feel like I was given poor advice when told to apply to those programs.

 

I'm unbelievably excited to finish undergrad and start my MA, and I think it will be the best thing for me. The next two years of my life are going to be dedicated to getting into a top PhD program for fall 2017!

[Metaellipses]

Regarding the increased attractiveness of applicants with MAs: I don't know how this will interact with shrinking cohort sizes. For example, at my university, the cohorts are slightly shrinking from 12-14 to 10-12, but there's pressure from faculty to keep the course selection the same. Of course, this becomes a problem when there are not only fewer students, but also when SAS requires that the department impose a 5 student minimum on all courses. This makes BA students more attractive, because they're not transferring in any credits, and they stay in coursework for longer. If cohort sizes keep shrinking I could see an increased preference for BA students to meet faculty demands. As is, my program only accepts around 3 MA students a semester. So I really think it could really go either way

[ToldAgain]

Metaellipses, that's an interesting take.

 

I have heard an unsubstantiated rumor that a lot of the really top programs prefer BA students. I know that Penn State doesn't accept many applicants with MAs because so many of their own MA students go on to the PhD there. I also hear rumors that Berkeley prefers MA students. And then there are all the MA students that get in to the great state schools like Chapel Hill and Michigan and such.

 

I suppose to make this conversation relevant to the thread: know where you want to go and don't, say, waste your money applying to Penn State with that MA if you know there will only be one or two PhD slots open to external applicants unless it is your absolute top choice.

[thepriorwalter]

As an applicant with an MA, only 2/5 of my acceptances were giving me any credits at all for my MA. You stay in coursework just as long as an applicant wih only a BA but the department has the knowledge that you are capable of completing a degree in a timely fashion.

Anyway, something for MAs to think about: your dream program may not give you advanced standing for your degree.