Dissertation in a Field Not Interested In...

[AtlasShrugs]

I've got my choices narrowed down to two schools for a PhD program in the same field (with full-funding):

 

A. High-tier ranked, but poor research match and there is no faculty member close to the field of my interest

 

B. Mid-tier ranked, best research match for me (mentor and dissertation data have been selected and will be handed to me when I enroll)

 

 

I am leaning towards School A because it is very highly ranked and I'm sure this will open many opportunities for me when I finish the program. But as I mentioned, I am a really bad match for the school. I've identified several professors I can work with based on dissertation ideas I proposed and they're fairly easy/manageable projects I can complete quickly since I've done similar things as an RA. I feel like this is the reason why they accepted me, because I would be extending work that their faculty members already do. However, these fields are no where close to the stuff I want to do in the future. On the other hand, I love the research project in School B, but I also don't really see myself in that school.

 

So I guess my main question is: How important is my dissertation topic in determining my next steps after the PhD program and the work I do in the future? I really don't want to do any work in my proposed field for School A....

Edited April 28, 2015 by AtlasShrugs

[bsharpe269]

How different are the rankings? Is it drastic like school A is top 5 and school B is just top 100? Or something more similar like 10 vs 30?

[AtlasShrugs]

How different are the rankings? Is it drastic like school A is top 5 and school B is just top 100? Or something more similar like 10 vs 30?

 

Yup, in terms of national rankings, School A is top 10 and School B is top 50.

 

For the specific field I am entering though, it's kind of the opposite, but I can guarantee that School A will become more recognized in the field within like 5 years.

[TakeruK]

Agreed with bsharpe that the relative rankings do matter. For the purposes of this post, I am going to assume School A is something like a top 5 school and School B is ranked around 30th.

 

My advice is also dependent on what you want to do with your degree beyond your PhD. For this post, I'm also going to assume that you want to take a "traditional academic career route", which means your post-PhD goal is a postdoctoral research position. I'm not necessarily assuming you want a TT position in the end, just that you want a PhD program that will set you up for a good postdoc.

 

Given those assumptions, my advice is that you should do what you can to maximize your chances of being hired for your skills at the end of the degree. Basically, I think we all need to find a good balance between working on the specific project that we love and working on things that will get us grants and jobs. The way I see it, as a graduate student, we should not be so focussed on finding a specific thesis topic that we love. Instead, we should just find the "subfield" that we're passionate about and then do whatever projects that will provide us with the means to reach our career goals (whether it's developing certain skills, fostering relationships with people that will be your champion, building mentoring relationships and learning from them etc.)

 

To me, it sounds like School A is only a poor research match in terms of what you want to study/work on, not because the research projects do not match your skills and experience. That is, it sounds like you are set up for success in the projects you do at School A. When I think of "research match", I don't think of preference, I think of it as "matching your abilities/experience with what the project requires". It sounds like School A might have everything else you need for success, especially since you say that you "don't really see [your]self in [school B]". 

 

From this, I would consider School B if the type of work in School A and School B are actually in different enough subfields (and you're passionate about subfield at School B but dislike the subfield of School A). From your current wording though, it sounds like the difference is only in the specific research topic/project, not the subfield. To use a personal example, I wanted to go to grad school to use telescopes to investigate planetary systems (whether it's our own Solar System or exoplanetary systems). I didn't care what my specific project would be--whether it's to examine the processes happening on surfaces of asteroids, or looking for multiple star systems, or studying gas giant planet atmospheres. At the "topic" level, the specifics don't matter--go for the best match in resources the school can provide (facilities, money and people support) and the best match in personality with your advisor. I like to say that you can always change your research interests but you can't change some of the biggest factors that affect your success (facilities/resources/people-fit etc.).

 

And to answer your main question--I don't think your dissertation work will completely define you as a scholar and limit any future work you might want to do. At least not in my field. Sure, your first postdoc might be related to your PhD work because you generally propose postdoc research idea while still a PhD student and you know your own work best. But if you are wise about your choices, you can make sure that while you are in grad school, you develop skills in the topics you do want to work in so that you can secure postdocs working on a different topic. I would say most postdocs I know do not work on the same topic as they did in grad school (but maybe something similar). Some people work on completely different topics by choice or because they were forced to (no jobs in their chosen topic). By the time you reach tenure track positions, almost no one is working on the same topic as their thesis (scholars are expected to grow much more by then!)

[AtlasShrugs]

Agreed with bsharpe that the relative rankings do matter. For the purposes of this post, I am going to assume School A is something like a top 5 school and School B is ranked around 30th.

 

My advice is also dependent on what you want to do with your degree beyond your PhD. For this post, I'm also going to assume that you want to take a "traditional academic career route", which means your post-PhD goal is a postdoctoral research position. I'm not necessarily assuming you want a TT position in the end, just that you want a PhD program that will set you up for a good postdoc.

 

Given those assumptions, my advice is that you should do what you can to maximize your chances of being hired for your skills at the end of the degree. Basically, I think we all need to find a good balance between working on the specific project that we love and working on things that will get us grants and jobs. The way I see it, as a graduate student, we should not be so focussed on finding a specific thesis topic that we love. Instead, we should just find the "subfield" that we're passionate about and then do whatever projects that will provide us with the means to reach our career goals (whether it's developing certain skills, fostering relationships with people that will be your champion, building mentoring relationships and learning from them etc.)

 

To me, it sounds like School A is only a poor research match in terms of what you want to study/work on, not because the research projects do not match your skills and experience. That is, it sounds like you are set up for success in the projects you do at School A. When I think of "research match", I don't think of preference, I think of it as "matching your abilities/experience with what the project requires". It sounds like School A might have everything else you need for success, especially since you say that you "don't really see [your]self in [school B]". 

 

From this, I would consider School B if the type of work in School A and School B are actually in different enough subfields (and you're passionate about subfield at School B but dislike the subfield of School A). From your current wording though, it sounds like the difference is only in the specific research topic/project, not the subfield. To use a personal example, I wanted to go to grad school to use telescopes to investigate planetary systems (whether it's our own Solar System or exoplanetary systems). I didn't care what my specific project would be--whether it's to examine the processes happening on surfaces of asteroids, or looking for multiple star systems, or studying gas giant planet atmospheres. At the "topic" level, the specifics don't matter--go for the best match in resources the school can provide (facilities, money and people support) and the best match in personality with your advisor. I like to say that you can always change your research interests but you can't change some of the biggest factors that affect your success (facilities/resources/people-fit etc.).

 

And to answer your main question--I don't think your dissertation work will completely define you as a scholar and limit any future work you might want to do. At least not in my field. Sure, your first postdoc might be related to your PhD work because you generally propose postdoc research idea while still a PhD student and you know your own work best. But if you are wise about your choices, you can make sure that while you are in grad school, you develop skills in the topics you do want to work in so that you can secure postdocs working on a different topic. I would say most postdocs I know do not work on the same topic as they did in grad school (but maybe something similar). Some people work on completely different topics by choice or because they were forced to (no jobs in their chosen topic). By the time you reach tenure track positions, almost no one is working on the same topic as their thesis (scholars are expected to grow much more by then!)

 

Much thanks for the helpful feedback.

 

So, yes, the subfields are very very different in both schools even though it's the same PhD. To give a close analogy, let's say I'm getting a PhD in Psychology. In the future I want to do work on youth, and like you said, it really doesn't matter what research I do, anything is fine as long it is related to youth. School A has no faculty members doing research on youth, but plenty on older adults. I find this interesting, but I will never see myself working on older adult populations in the future. The opposite for School B, it has very intriguing research on children and I was so close to accepting until I got the offer from School A.

 

At this point, I don't know my next steps after PhD, but it'll likely be PostDoc, but I want to work on youth research. I'm in such a dilemma..  

Edited April 28, 2015 by AtlasShrugs

[brown_eyed_girl]

Yup, in terms of national rankings, School A is top 10 and School B is top 50.

 

For the specific field I am entering though, it's kind of the opposite, but I can guarantee that School A will become more recognized in the field within like 5 years.

 

I'm a little confused by what you mean here. For PhDs, the rank of your specific department is what matters, and the reputation of the people in your subfield working within the department. The rank of the universities overall are much less important. How do these programs stack up departmentally, and in terms of adviser recognition?

 

As to your overall question, I'd consider what it is that makes you say that you don't see yourself at School B, given your preference for its research area. If you're married to the idea of a specific research area, I'd also talk with your POI(s) at School A and see if there's any flexibility to pursue those interests. Sometimes professors are willing to guide you even if you're not in their exact wheelhouse. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by brown_eyed_girl

[AtlasShrugs]

I'm a little confused by what you mean here. For PhDs, the rank of your specific department is what matters, and the reputation of the people in your subfield working within the department. The rank of the universities overall are much less important. How do these programs stack up departmentally, and in terms of adviser recognition?

 

As to your overall question, I'd consider what it is that makes you say that you don't see yourself at School B, given your preference for its research area. If you're married to the idea of a specific research area, I'd also talk with your POI(s) at School A and see if there's any flexibility to pursue those interests. Sometimes professors are willing to guide you even if you're not in their exact wheelhouse. 

 

Advisors in both schools have similar reputations/networks (I would say it's slightly higher in School A). Rankings in the particular field is a bit tricky because it's still fairly new. For instance, US News officially ranks only about 30 schools when there are about 80 of these departments in the US. There is a valid reason the 50ish other schools are not ranked, but it really distorts the comparison of schools in this field.

 

But officially, these are the roundabout rankings:

 

School A

National: Top 10

Department: Unranked, but it would be Top 15-20 (when compared to similar institutions)

 

School B

National: Top 50

Department: Top 5/30 (again, these rankings are missing about 50 other schools)

[TakeruK]

With the additional details about the subfields and the rankings, I would say that I think both options can be really good choices for you (I guess that's why it's a dilemma ). But a positive way to look at it is that you have two pretty good options to pick from!

 

I think the difference now is just personal and completely depends on what you want. At School A, you are making a compromise of not working on the subfield that interests you most. At School B, I'm actually not sure what the compromise is, because you just say "I don't see myself" there. Sounds like a fit type of thing? What you're willing to compromise is an entirely personal decision and I don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" answer.

 

Sometimes we seek advice on these types of dilemmas (where we know it's a personal choice that others can't really help with) because we feel bad about making a decision based on some factor or other. If this is the case, I am saying that you don't need to feel bad (not that you need this validation, but just providing it!). People will not think less of you if you chose School A because of a bad fit (personal, research, whatever) with School B. And people will not think less of you if you chose a "lower ranked" (or whatever the reason is) School B because you wanted to follow your passion/interest and work on something you love. Well, some people will judge you no matter what but that's their problem  

 

It might be a tough choice, but given the information here, I don't think you can make a bad one.

[morneel]

I'm actually very interested in this topic and to find out how OP decides...

I think I am in a similar position. One school, more highly ranked, is likely not going to have research in the subfield I applied for, but I still have this indescribable urge pulling me towards it (some irrational feeling that I will be happy there). The other school has a good research fit, but for other external factors I just have this aversion to going there. I also wonder how much of an effect having visited my first school and not my second has had.

 

Keep us updated.

[AtlasShrugs]

I'm actually very interested in this topic and to find out how OP decides...

I think I am in a similar position. One school, more highly ranked, is likely not going to have research in the subfield I applied for, but I still have this indescribable urge pulling me towards it (some irrational feeling that I will be happy there). The other school has a good research fit, but for other external factors I just have this aversion to going there. I also wonder how much of an effect having visited my first school and not my second has had.

 

Keep us updated.

 

I accepted School A yesterday! It's going to be a huge risk since it's a new program and remains unranked, but I'm willing to bet it will make significant progress based on their 2020 impact plan I saw. I feel like the dissertation topic is important, but I spoke to their PhD graduates who are currently doing research in fields different from their dissertation. Perhaps this is much more common than I originally thought?

 

Regardless, I'm very excited. The dean and other faculty members congratulated me yesterday and today for making a wise decision.