Asking a Research Scientist for LoR

[mythologyking]

Hi all,

 

I'm applying to grad schools (biomedical sciences) this Fall, and I'm sure on the 2 profs I'm asking to write my LoR (my current PI and my faculty adviser - who I've taken classes with and TAed for). For my third recommender, I'm thinking of asking a research scientist in a lab (who I worked closely with) I was previously in.

 

Thing is, I'm not sure if this is a good idea. I've read comments about people saying LoR from postdocs might not be best, and optimally, you'd want professors/employers. I'm not sure if a research scientist would still be considered a postdoc, but I just wanted to ask if you guys think this would be okay/will it harm my application in any way? I do think that this third person would be the best candidate, especially cause he's another person I've done research for and I worked much more closely with him than I did with my former PI.

 

Much appreciated!

[TakeruK]

In general, it is pretty tough to find 3 faculty members who you've all done research under and can write you strong LORs. When people say to avoid LORs from postdocs, it really just means that if you can ask the faculty member to write it instead, you should. I would say that the majority of applicants will be in a situation similar to yours, where they can find 2 strong faculty member LORs and the last one will be not "ideal" but that doesn't mean it will hurt you!

 

In your case, I think you should certainly go with the research scientist instead of a random professor that you have not worked with before (i.e. only taught you classes). However, if the research scientist is in a different lab than your current PI, would it be possible for you to talk to the research scientist and your old lab PI about getting a LOR from that lab? Sometimes what might happen is that the research scientist will work with the PI to write a letter and have the PI sign it. But generally, I think it's best for them to suggest this, instead of you asking outright (maybe my experience is not representative though). 

[eeee1923]

I would err on the side of caution and use that person as a 4th LoR and stick with academic positions for your 3 mandatory LoRs. I don't think it would negatively affect you per se but depending on how stiff the competition is for the program - it could lower the priority of your application package. I also used a research scientist as a LoR (as a 4th LoR) but not only for a few programs (I applied to a program where this scientist had been a PI for 8 yrs).

[mythologyking]

Hi @TakeruK,

 

Thanks so much for your input! Yes, he's from a different lab. That was what I was thinking too: like maybe asking the scientist to write for me, and then asking my old PI to co-sign it for me. But I'm not too sure how to bring this up to him. :/

Edited July 21, 2015 by gavinb432

[mythologyking]

Hi @eteshoe,

 

What do you think about asking if the scientist could write a letter and let my old PI cosign it?

[TakeruK]

Hi @TakeruK,

 

Thanks so much for your input! Yes, he's from a different lab. That was what I was thinking too: like maybe asking the scientist to write for me, and then asking my old PI to co-sign it for me. But I'm not too sure how to bring this up to him. :/

 

In one of my old labs**, the PI was on sabbatical the entire time I worked with the lab so I only interacted with her through a Skype call every 2 weeks (in our lab group meetings) and occasional email. Instead, my daily interaction was with the Lab Manager, who held a MSc. The way that worked for me was to email both the Lab Manager and the PI to ask for the letter and the idea for the Lab Manager to write and the PI to sign was something they brought up. I feel that if your old PI has your best interests in mind, they would automatically suggest this if you ask both of them for a LOR from the lab at once. If not, it sounds like you have a good relationship with the research scientist so maybe just asking that person would be enough for them to suggest the PI sign it and they might advocate for you on your behalf. Otherwise if you end up having to ask for it directly, you might have to find a delicate way of asking the research scientist to write the letter but get the PI to sign it, without offending the research scientist (or the PI). But I guess given the choice of research scientist vs. PI for asking that direct question, I'd go with the person I have a better relationship with (the research scientist).

 

(** Caveat: I am not currently in a lab field, but I did work in a real lab group for awhile in undergrad. I used this letter (written by Lab Manager, signed by PI) to successfully get into my MSc program [all grad programs in Canada start at the MSc level] and get a NSF-level award for grad school, but I did not use this letter to get into PhD programs. This was also more than 6 years ago now, so maybe my experience with this is out of date!)

[Jay's Brain]

Hi @TakeruK,

 

Thanks so much for your input! Yes, he's from a different lab. That was what I was thinking too: like maybe asking the scientist to write for me, and then asking my old PI to co-sign it for me. But I'm not too sure how to bring this up to him. :/

 

Hey gavinb432,

 

I actually did just that for my application cycle. I know it may seem a bit out of place to ask for this, but you want two things from your LOR - 1) Someone who knows your work well, and can provide excellent knowledge of your skills; and 2) someone who is established in the field and can give you a nudge in the right direction. Sometimes these two criteria won't be from the same person for multiple reasons (as is your case). I actually think this should be encouraged. When I suggested the idea, I asked both the PI and the postdoc whether they can write something together so that the postdoc can guide the PI with writing about my relevant experiences in their lab. They were both very receptive of this.

I know it may be a case by case basis, but you should be able to judge whether both of them will be able to comply to your request. For me, it worked well!

 

Hope it helps you too!

[GeoDUDE!]

somtimes a postdoc > tenured faculty. Postdoc's know most what it takes to make it through grad school and get a job right after... they just did it!

[Vene]

I think asking the research scientist is fine, you do have two letters from faculty already so it's not like you're avoiding letters from them and it sounds like the scientist can speak towards your abilities. It's a little bit different, but since I had industrial experience I asked my boss to write me a LOR and it seemed to be well received despite her not being an academic (the research scientist is at least an academic scientist).

I think this is a thing that comes down to personal situation. If you're asking a postdoc for a letter instead of your PI, that's a bad thing. If you're asking a postdoc for a letter instead of a faculty member who had you in one class, ask the postdoc, the letter will be stronger. But, I don't think you want any less than two letters from professors.