Are the conventional beliefs re MA programs wrong?

[759]

It seems to me that MA programs are typically recommended to those who would like to eventually pursue a PhD, but feel that they need to strengthen their application/knowledge base first. Since the pool of applicants to MA programs (supposedly) fit this criteria, the conventional belief seems to be that they are easier to get into (relative to the PhD). Or another way of saying this might be that the competition isn't as stiff (people applying to an MA probably don't have perfect numbers (gpa/gre), nuanced research, published work, etc.).

I think of myself as falling somewhere in the middle (good academic record/education re linguistics, but probably not super competitive at the PhD level. During my last round of (all PhD) applications only one school gave me a 'provisional' acceptance, which couldn't be granted due to budget issues), so I've decided to apply to MAs.

However, after looking around a bit, it seems as if there are very few MA students in linguistics (considering only, of course, those schools that offer terminal MA degrees). While the in coming class of PhD students is usually something like 6-10, the MA only takes on like 1 or 2 people. Is the MA actually more competitive...or do radically fewer people pursue the MA? Why is it that some years not a single MA student is admitted? Is it simply a financial issue (many MAs are admitted, but not many accept due to no funding)?

 

Sorry for all of the questions; I'm just a bit confused.    

[fuzzylogician]

MA programs just aren't very common at all in linguistics, especially not funded ones. People who enter PhD programs with MAs almost always come from foreign countries with 3-year BAs and/or a BA-MA-PhD higher education system, where you apply to a MA after the BA because that's what you do. Another reason foreign students often have MAs is that it's hard to compete with US students who have 4-year degrees and often a lot more research experience just because US degrees are built to give you that research experience (through independent studies, the honors thesis, and REU opportunities), which just don't exist often in other places at the BA level. In the US, you'd do an MA for the same reason -- to get more experience or strengthen your application if you think it's not strong enough coming with just the BA. It's not a requirement for admissions, and in fact many schools will grant you an MA in passing while you're in their PhD program if you fulfill certain requirements. 

Because there are so few schools that offer an MA in linguistics, the ones that do become somewhat selective. I'm not sure if it's more or less selective than the PhD because for that we'd have to know not just how many spots there are but also how many people applied. In any event, I agree that it's hard to find a spot in a good program in the US. In case you're interested, I complied a list of funded MA programs outside the US, here: http://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/67453-suggestions-general-linguistics-mas-in-the-us/ . Since you're applying now, if you can add to that list, please do! 

[759]

MA programs just aren't very common at all in linguistics, especially not funded ones. People who enter PhD programs with MAs almost always come from foreign countries with 3-year BAs and/or a BA-MA-PhD higher education system, where you apply to a MA after the BA because that's what you do. Another reason foreign students often have MAs is that it's hard to compete with US students who have 4-year degrees and often a lot more research experience just because US degrees are built to give you that research experience (through independent studies, the honors thesis, and REU opportunities), which just don't exist often in other places at the BA level. In the US, you'd do an MA for the same reason -- to get more experience or strengthen your application if you think it's not strong enough coming with just the BA. It's not a requirement for admissions, and in fact many schools will grant you an MA in passing while you're in their PhD program if you fulfill certain requirements. 

Because there are so few schools that offer an MA in linguistics, the ones that do become somewhat selective. I'm not sure if it's more or less selective than the PhD because for that we'd have to know not just how many spots there are but also how many people applied. In any event, I agree that it's hard to find a spot in a good program in the US. In case you're interested, I complied a list of funded MA programs outside the US, here: http://forum.thegradcafe.com/topic/67453-suggestions-general-linguistics-mas-in-the-us/ . Since you're applying now, if you can add to that list, please do! 

Thanks for all of the information. I already have McGill, Toronto, and Amsterdam (for logic) on my list. I also have ucsc and stony brook for US schools (it was these American schools I was mostly referencing). I guess since the MA is a more unconventional route for american students there isn't much demand for info re ratios of applicants vs offers. Whereas for PhD this sort of information is almost proudly displayed on the departments websites (e.g. We typically choose 6 students out of a pool of 200 applicants). 

But if the MA is just as selective as the PhD, I may be taking an ill-advised route here...

[danica1]

While I did have an MA, I decided to apply to both MA and PhD programs. This was mainly because my MA is from a foreign university, and is not in linguistics. I wasn't sure how I would compare to other applicants so I thought I'd play it safe. I ended up being accepted to a PhD program, so I went with that. But this may be something to consider if you're unsure. 

[TakeruK]

You mention Toronto and McGill, which are Canadian schools. In general, the MA degree in Canada is very different from the MA degree in the US. In Canada, you must do an MA before a PhD, because the path to the PhD is 4-year BA, 1-2 year MA, and then 3-X years PhD (where X depends on the field...maybe the 3 does too). I did a quick check and Toronto will fund the 1-year MA program. 

[Dedi]

You mention Toronto and McGill, which are Canadian schools. In general, the MA degree in Canada is very different from the MA degree in the US. In Canada, you must do an MA before a PhD, because the path to the PhD is 4-year BA, 1-2 year MA, and then 3-X years PhD (where X depends on the field...maybe the 3 does too). I did a quick check and Toronto will fund the 1-year MA program. 

There are also exceptions to that rule regarding Canadian schools. Depending on the program and grades, you can go to direct-entry to a PhD like I did. Again, it's the exception rather than the rule. But yes, Toronto will fund master's programs.

[TakeruK]

There are also exceptions to that rule regarding Canadian schools. Depending on the program and grades, you can go to direct-entry to a PhD like I did. Again, it's the exception rather than the rule. But yes, Toronto will fund master's programs.

Indeed, and actually, U Toronto's astrophysics program is a US-style direct-to-PhD program (although, if you are coming with a Masters from another school, you will enter at advanced standing, unlike most US PhD program). They do allow their graduate students to go for only a Masters too (funded) which could then be used to attend a PhD program elsewhere. So, it's like a hybrid of a Canada-US system! In my field, Toronto is the only school like this.

[759]

I'm not sure if this changes anything, but I'm not Canadian. I went to a four year university in California. Is it strange or problematic to do a MA in Canada if their system is different (especially if I intend to return to the US to do a PhD)? Would a US PhD program see less value in Toronto's program since it is only one year? 

[TakeruK]

I'm not sure if this changes anything, but I'm not Canadian. I went to a four year university in California. Is it strange or problematic to do a MA in Canada if their system is different (especially if I intend to return to the US to do a PhD)? Would a US PhD program see less value in Toronto's program since it is only one year? 

You don't have to Canadian to attend a Canadian MA program and get funding for it. However, a lot of the funding sources either require or prefer Canadian citizenship and schools that promise funding, like most Canadian MA programs, will only accept you if they can fund you, so this means your chances of admission to a Canadian program may be lower than if you were Canadian. This is an issue that affects international students everywhere though.

I am Canadian and did a Canadian MSc program before going to a US school for a PhD. US PhD programs generally do not allow you to count your time/courses in any Masters program (whether it's Canadian, American, or elsewhere) so I don't think it makes a difference in terms of "less value". However, a one-year Masters program is tricky because if you intend to go to a PhD program right afterwards (whether in US or elsewhere), you will have to apply for the PhD program just 3-4 months after you start your Masters program, so you won't really be able to use your Masters program as much leverage since not much will be complete.

There may also be field-specific things though. In my field, astronomy/physics crosses the border well so even the systems are different, schools will care about what students have achieved in each program (in terms of courses completed and research done). In my field, it doesn't matter if it's one or two years, except for the logistical reason above (which you can overcome if you finish your MA first and then apply to PhD, but that might not be ideal either).

[fuzzylogician]

I'm not sure if this changes anything, but I'm not Canadian. I went to a four year university in California. Is it strange or problematic to do a MA in Canada if their system is different (especially if I intend to return to the US to do a PhD)? Would a US PhD program see less value in Toronto's program since it is only one year? 

The programs at the U of T, UBC, and McGill are recognized as strong, and having a MA from there will be a plus for your PhD applications. As TakeruK says, you'll have to apply after just a few months in the program, so you'll probably want to make sure that you spend that time making connections with professors and doing well in class, so you can get good letters of recommendation, and you'll probably also want at least one letter from your undergraduate institution, where I assume there is at least one prof who has known you for longer than 3-4 months and can say good things about you. You'll also want to plan ahead to figure out what you'll submit as a writing sample -- options being working on something from undergrad and getting feedback from your MA professors, or working on something new for your MA courses. This is somewhat premature to worry about, but it's good to plan ahead and know what you'll be up against. 

It's true that there is more funding for domestic students and therefore these Canadian programs have a majority of Canadian students, but they also always accept a few international students each year. I am fairly sure that there are more Canadians applying to these programs than international students, so again it's hard to tell if/how much more selective the programs are for international students. You could go on these schools' websites to read more about funding and admission requirements. 

[Ziggyfinish]

McGill's Linguistics graduate program has a lot of international students in it (at the moment at least), in fact I think they prefer to have a strong mix of international and domestic students. And I believe it is a two year program. (I believe U of T also offers a 1 and 2 year MA).

Also its common in Canada for many of the smaller or less well known schools to offer really good funding options to attract students (everyone here just wants to live in Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal). These schools usually have small programs of very little to no renown, BUT, at the MA level this may not be a problem if you're looking to get some research experience. Because there are few teachers and few students you could expect to get a lot of attention and individual support, and find a tight community of professors, who you'll get to know really fast at the pub. You could also expect to get a lot of teaching opportunities or TA/RAships.