Which program to choose ?

[LesterYoung]

Hi everyone,

I am not sure I am on the right sub forum, I am talking to ask about international security programs, and "government affairs" sounded like the closest category.

I want to find a program about international security, which would provide a study of all issues related to the main subject (like terrorism, non-proliferation...), but with a main focus on armed conflicts/war (between States mostly, but also civil wars). I studied public international law and am currently studying the law of armed conflicts, and I would later like to work in an international organization (UN or NATO mostly), Ministries of Foreign Affairs or Defense, or private military company in a department dealing with armed conflicts and international security issues.

I am currently applying to US programs in this regard, which are :


- Georgetown University - School of Foreign Service (M.A. Security Studies Program)
- George Washington University - Elliott School of International Affairs (M.A. Security Policy Studies)
- American University - School of International Service (M.A. International Affairs : Global Governance, Politics, and Security - Concentration in Global Security)
- Columbia - School of International and Public Affairs (Master of International Affairs - Concentration in International Security Policy - Specialization in International Conflict Resolution)

I have always wanted to study in the US, but I found out there are also some programs offered by London's King's College that seem very relevant with respect to my goals :

- M.A. War Studies
- M.A. International Conflict Studies
- M.A. International Peace and Security (but this program seems to have a pretty important focus on law, but as I have been studying it extensively I'd like to focus on a program which deals entirely with international relations/security/strategic/geopolitics courses if possible)

Here is the thing : I am not quite sure that the US programs deal a lot with war. I am afraid they are too centered on general international security issues (such as terrorism etc) rather than "proper" armed conflicts.

Based on your knowledge about these programs/common sense and keeping in mind my career goals/previous studies/what I want to study, what would be your best advice for me ?

Thank you very much !

[monocle]

I think you're probably right that the programs you mentioned likely focus more on international security in general rather than armed conflict.

To me though, it seems like if you wanted to have expertise and be taken seriously in a specific field like armed conflicts, maybe you could consider a PhD? It's just a hunch, but I think you could probably only gain such expertise through long-term, focused and intensive research or through years of experience working in that field. What is your work background?

I'm also skeptical of the benefit a UK Master's can give to a career. Anecdotally, I have performed the duties of hiring manager (though I myself don't have a Master's yet) for a small NGO that has programs related to human displacement/refugees, and I have never been especially impressed by candidates with MA's from the UK. In my encounters, I have found they lack practical experience (perhaps because UK students go straight to master's and it's more expected to complete a masters?), and the narrow expertise they may have gained (in a one-year program) doesn't apply to any real-world job responsibilities either.

That's not to say I haven't found bright and pleasant people capable of the job, just wanted to point out that in my experience the UK Master's doesn't seem to be a distinguishing factor... although maybe it could be if you want to work as a researcher?

I think the best advice you could find on this forum however, would be to go search LinkedIn for the alumni of the programs you mentioned. Try to get an idea of the jobs they are working and see who have the jobs most aligned with your goals. Try to be more specific in the type of job (or job title) that you think you would want after graduation. You'll probably be okay no matter where you go, if you really know what you want to do and know where to apply for jobs afterwards, you'll probably land somewhere near.

[went_away]

Good advice above. 

You have a great list of programs - particularly Georgetown's MA in Security Studies (far and away the world's best program for those looking to hyper-specialize in security, IMHO). To that list - and above American and GWU Elliot - I would add SAIS with a focus in Strategic Studies and Fletcher with a focus on Security Studies. 

Also, and somewhat tangential to this conversation, if you really want to pursue a career in 'security,' you'll find that veterans have a very, very big leg-up on you in the job search, so you might consider joining the reserve in an appropriate speciality or even active duty for a time if that's potentially of interest. 

[LesterYoung]

monocle : I do not want to pursue a PhD since I am not interested in such exercise (I enjoyed doing my master's thesis, but a PhD thesis would just not be my cup of tea. I like doing some research, but researching for years would most likely annoy me, a lot) and I do not think it would bring me anything really essential, considering what I want to do. I already hold the LL.M. equivalent (French Master 2) in Public International Law, and hopefully by the end of this academic year I'll hold another LL.M. (a "proper" one this time) in International Humanitarian Law (law of armed conflict) and Human Rights. AND if I am admitted to one of these programs and make it through, I would also have a M.A. in International Security. PhDs are usually useful when you want to research more about a topic or become a professor/specialized scholar ; which is not what I want to be.
Regarding searching on LinkedIn I already did that but I could not find many people this way. Maybe I did not search correctly though. I'll give it a shot again.

Thank you very much for your input monocle !

went_away : Regarding the programs : what do you think about Columbia ? I am not sure at all I am going to be admitted there but I have been wondering if it would be good to be in NYC to study international security. D.C. looks like it's the place to be, right ? Plus the program director, when presenting this program, says that they do a trip during the second year in D.C. to see the policy-making etc (obviously if you are already in D.C. you can see that everyday, right ?) and that many of their professors come from D.C. (so I also assume that if they go to Columbia to give some lessons, they probably do the same in D.C. schools ?). So even in the case the Columbia program is slightly better than some other program in D.C., it would still be better to go to D.C., right ? I guess there are many more opportunities to seize there ? (obviously if it happens that the program in Columbia is WAY better than a D.C. program then what I said above is irrelevant)
Regarding your advice about people who have military experience : I think the pathways are different. I may be wrong but I guess that apart from former commissioned officers and people who worked in the "high spheres" of the military, most people with military experience working in security would have a clear and very, very strong advantage in field positions, right ? With my background and what I want to do, I am not too worried, since I guess (I may be wrong, once again), that most people with military experience who want to work in security stuff end up on the field because of their experience, right ? Again, apart from former commissioned officers and the likes who have a more theoretical/management/strategic approach to security than privates and NCOs.

Thanks for your advices !

[went_away]

2 hours ago, LesterYoung said:

monocle : I do not want to pursue a PhD since I am not interested in such exercise (I enjoyed doing my master's thesis, but a PhD thesis would just not be my cup of tea. I like doing some research, but researching for years would most likely annoy me, a lot) and I do not think it would bring me anything really essential, considering what I want to do. I already hold the LL.M. equivalent (French Master 2) in Public International Law, and hopefully by the end of this academic year I'll hold another LL.M. (a "proper" one this time) in International Humanitarian Law (law of armed conflict) and Human Rights. AND if I am admitted to one of these programs and make it through, I would also have a M.A. in International Security. PhDs are usually useful when you want to research more about a topic or become a professor/specialized scholar ; which is not what I want to be.
Regarding searching on LinkedIn I already did that but I could not find many people this way. Maybe I did not search correctly though. I'll give it a shot again.

Thank you very much for your input monocle !

went_away : Regarding the programs : what do you think about Columbia ? I am not sure at all I am going to be admitted there but I have been wondering if it would be good to be in NYC to study international security. D.C. looks like it's the place to be, right ? Plus the program director, when presenting this program, says that they do a trip during the second year in D.C. to see the policy-making etc (obviously if you are already in D.C. you can see that everyday, right ?) and that many of their professors come from D.C. (so I also assume that if they go to Columbia to give some lessons, they probably do the same in D.C. schools ?). So even in the case the Columbia program is slightly better than some other program in D.C., it would still be better to go to D.C., right ? I guess there are many more opportunities to seize there ? (obviously if it happens that the program in Columbia is WAY better than a D.C. program then what I said above is irrelevant)
Regarding your advice about people who have military experience : I think the pathways are different. I may be wrong but I guess that apart from former commissioned officers and people who worked in the "high spheres" of the military, most people with military experience working in security would have a clear and very, very strong advantage in field positions, right ? With my background and what I want to do, I am not too worried, since I guess (I may be wrong, once again), that most people with military experience who want to work in security stuff end up on the field because of their experience, right ? Again, apart from former commissioned officers and the likes who have a more theoretical/management/strategic approach to security than privates and NCOs.

Thanks for your advices !

Veterans will have a leg up whether they were officers or not. All things equal, a former enlisted guy/gal with military experience - especially if it's combat and/or deployed experience - and a master's from SIPA will generally speaking in security related jobs (this includes 'thinking' positions) will have a very big advantage to another applicant with the same master's degree and non-military experience. US organizations love that 'warrior-scholar' dichotomy.  

In reality, I'd say NYC probably has more security related positions than DC, just cause it's so much bigger of a city with UN and so many corporate HQs. Most DC security jobs will be US government related - and there the veteran status advantage will be even more pronounced than elsewhere. Make your choice on the best school and city where'd you rather live. And SIPA is a perfectly good program - right there in line with SAIS and Fletcher. 

Basically, it'd be helpful for you to clarify what you mean by security. Are you looking to work at a think tank as a researcher? At an NGO as a security and crisis manager? In private sector corporate security? A government contracting company? All of these involve very different paths and there is surprisingly little overlap or pollination between them in terms of pros jumping from one to the other. My sense from your posts is that you're interested in the think tank path; in that case, you really need to focus heavily on making contacts and getting an internship - these organizations are all about who knows you and getting your foot in the door. And, yes, if you want to work for a think tank, DC is definitely your best choice. Buyer beware - salaries are laughably low at think tanks - especially relative to the high cost of an MA in International Affairs - and unpaid internships abound.

Edited February 3, 2016 by went_away

[LesterYoung]

Thanks a lot, I see.

What I mean by "international security" : well I guess I refer to all situations threatening the security of States and the international community as a whole, and the different ways to manage/solve them, understand their creation and process, the main issue being armed conflicts. Then all the others, such as terrorism, non-proliferation, etc.

Actually I am not that interested in think tanks. For internships maybe, but not to work there later. Ideally, I would like to work at an international organization (U.N. or - most likely - NATO) ; or in a Ministry of my native country (France) (either Foreign Affairs or - and again, most likely - Defense) ; or in a private military company (or call it however you want). I do not really know about the specific job though. If everything goes well according to my current project, I would have to wait and see depending on the opportunities and what I would like to do when discovering a bit more about this universe.

Thank you so much for your help !

Edited February 3, 2016 by LesterYoung

[monocle]

Hmm.. Given that you have/will have two master's degrees already, maybe you should consider trying to find a job in international security before going back to school again..

To me, it looks like you don't need another Master's degree, but you just aren't sure of what exactly you want to do in international security. You could start with an entry level position at a small NGO and see what kind of jobs are out there first. Then maybe see what specifically you want to do with any further degree.

What I failed to highlight in my previous post was that the reason other candidates with MA's from the US were able to outshine their UK counterparts was because they had work experience before their Master's and it was evident that they had used their education to build on their experience, whether they were changing fields or improving analytic skills or project management ability.

I know it may be tough to swallow, but if you don't have a more specific idea of what type of work you want to be doing, making a $100,000 two-year commitment to get a third master's might not be the right thing to do right now. 

[LesterYoung]

I understand where you are coming from but I do want to pursue an M.A. next year if I can, for several reasons :

1) I want to study everything I want to study before entering the professional world (practical and personal reasons)

2) Even without a lot of professional experience, it would not prevent me from getting internships/jobs I could already have with my current academic background

3) It would give me access to a much wider range of opportunities (when you studied law, although I am sure you can still find an internship or a job which does not deal completely or even not at all with legal stuff, you are basically bound to stay in the legal area)

4) I am "afraid" that if I start looking for an internship or a job right after this academic year, I would feel "stuck" and therefore could not pursue my studies in the near future

5) Regarding your argument, I completely understand but since this would be a completely different area from what I have been studying, I am really not sure that earning some professional experience first would be helpful (since, as I said above, it would probably be a 100% legal thing anyway) ; and although it is common in the U.S. to work a bit and then go back to studies, it is not really the case *at least* in France. And as working in the U.S. is not one of my goals - at least for now ; and not that I wouldn't like the idea - I am pretty confident it would not be an issue if I had to work in France/Europe afterwards.

But I appreciate your concern though, you gave me your honest opinion and I appreciate that. It's just not gonna happen haha, if I am admitted I'm definitely going to the U.S. !