Grad school applicant profile--how can I tell where I have a shot?

[scientific]

I'm taking the GRE tomorrow and I haven't decided where to send my four free to.

I'm very serious about graduate school, but I really have no gauge of where I'm likely to get in, and whether or not I have to do make up classes, or whatever it takes. I'd love some advice based on my qualifications; I'm hoping to go to a higher ranked, top 25 school/grad programs. 

I'm currently trying to build my resume before applying to grad school for the 2019 year and I'm looking for advice to boost my chances for acceptance.  Thus far:

Program: PhD in Physical chemistry or Astrochemistry

Major: Chemistry with applied emphasis in Environmental studies

GPA: 3.22, one D+ in atmospheric science, three late drops (additional math and bio classes I didn't have time for) not major required. I know my academic record looks a bit sketchy, but I did well in my physical chemistry and physics classes (B+ and up). I didn't start calculus off well, but improved over the years. 

Undergrad school: School in California; top 50 school/R1 school; ranked top 40 chemistry programs.

Years since graduating: 2 years

GRE: To be taken; have been getting around 160V/158Q on practice tests, so not ideal.

LoR: I have a handful of people I'm looking to talk to, but haven't decided on any. I am fairly certain will have at least one strong (organic research), two good (inorganic research and physical chemistry class professor), and two additional to consider (astronomy professor I currently work for and graduate student at my analytical research project)

Research Experience: 2.5+ years, five projects, two published papers (third and second, respectively...but in organic chem, not what I'm applying for.) I also have international research experience (Osaka University in Japan), incl. one conference, one poster (third)

Other Experience: Introductory astronomy class teaching assistant for one year; private math and chemistry tutor for one year; currently assisting at local community college observatory as telescope technician/class assistant

Other details: fluent in Mandarin and working level in Japanese; directed fundraisers and social work programs for one year; volunteered in various minority/underprivileged projects throughout. Currently working as property management assistant.

 

I have my two ideal schools (University of Chicago and University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign), but I really have no gauge of whether or not I'll get in. I'd ideally like to apply out of California/West Coast and honestly not in the South (i.e., not Georgia, Texas, Florida). My current school list is all over the place, but any advice/opinions would be great:

(In order of choices)

University of Chicago
University of Illinois-Urbana Champaign
Northwestern University
Cornell University
Ohio State University
Penn State
University of Maryland--College Park

Should I be widening my search criteria; i.e., stay in California? Are most of these schools just way out of reach? If so, what can I do? Like I said, I really can't tell--am I being too hopeful and have no shot?

[Orgo for days]

You've got a pretty good shot at a lot of these schools. Your academic stats are eh, but your research is a lot more impressive than average, which is the most important part of your application. I think you've got a nice range of schools that you're applying to already, only widen your range if you feel like you want to do so.

If you're applying for the 2019 cycle (?), I would try to get more research experience in your desired field. This would help 1.) show your continued interest and abilities in your field and 2.) help you build connections that will turn into good LoRs. That being said your application is decent as it is.

[scientific]

Thank you, I appreciate your response! I have a very hard time gauging where I stand competition-wise.... My GPA is quite low but I worked very hard in research and hopefully that can explain the grades.

I just took my GRE yesterday and received a 162/162 on each part. Not that high but it is top 25% or so I think. 

I'm actually applying this upcoming fall, so hopefully my past research is enough. Additionally, my two papers are quite old (maybe around 2012?). Anymore feedback would be appreciated in general.

[aberrant]

OP should change the first post back to 2017, instead of 2019. Or else responses from others will be very different.

Is OP international student? The competition for the international students pool are way different than residents / local students. My opinion is that your profile isn't quite competitive for international students.

If the last time that you have published was at 2012, then what have you been working since 2012? Is it possible to generally summarize what have you been doing since 2012? Often times, programs will require you to explain if there is an academic / research gap. Since you graduated in 2014, it has been 4 years since you last published, but you only have +2.5 years research experience -- that is actually more sketchy to me than the GPA itself.

[scientific]

Aberrant, thanks for your response! For some reason I actually don't have the option to edit my post anymore--or at least I can't find the option to do so, but I am applying for 2017. I'm not an international student, and I'm not quite sure what gave you that impression? But I will be applying out of state (I am in California, probably not applying to anywhere in California)--not sure if that matters.

 

So in short: 3/2011-9/2012 organic lab, 2 papers, 9/2012-6/2013 astronomy/physics teaching assistant, 1/2013-3/2014 analytical lab no paper (and the project was quite slow while I was there so I doubt that anything I did there will be published anytime soon, if at all), 3/2014-8/2014 international inorganic lab, small conference/presentations and possible paper. Traveled for sometime, then 1/2015 - present, working at my family company (not research or science related); 9/2015-present teaching assistant and local community college observatory/equipment technician/teaching assistant. So not research, either, but it gives me time to work in the day time and do astronomy/astro-spectroscopy related activities in the evening. I know that's not all research related, but there are reasons for my gaps in research. I am quite bummed that I haven't been published since 2012, either, but I wanted to spend time figuring out what I liked to do. 

I actually do worry that being all over the place will hurt my chances, but I took a long time deciding what--if at all--I wanted to pursue.

 

Edit: I definitely checked and the "edit" post option is not available for first post, so I can't edit that. But yes, I hope to apply this upcoming fall........ so to attend the 2017 semesters.

Edited February 22, 2016 by scientific
clarifications

[scientific]

4 hours ago, scientific said:

Aberrant, thanks for your response! For some reason I actually don't have the option to edit my post anymore--or at least I can't find the option to do so, but I am applying for 2017. I'm not an international student, and I'm not quite sure what gave you that impression? But I will be applying out of state (I am in California, probably not applying to anywhere in California)--not sure if that matters.

 

So in short: 3/2011-9/2012 organic lab, 2 papers, 9/2012-6/2013 astronomy/physics teaching assistant, 1/2013-3/2014 analytical lab no paper (and the project was quite slow while I was there so I doubt that anything I did there will be published anytime soon, if at all), 3/2014-8/2014 international inorganic lab, small conference/presentations and possible paper. Traveled for sometime, then 1/2015 - present, working at my family company (not research or science related); 9/2015-present teaching assistant and local community college observatory/equipment technician/teaching assistant. So not research, either, but it gives me time to work in the day time and do astronomy/astro-spectroscopy related activities in the evening. I know that's not all research related, but there are reasons for my gaps in research. I am quite bummed that I haven't been published since 2012, either, but I wanted to spend time figuring out what I liked to do. 

I actually do worry that being all over the place will hurt my chances, but I took a long time deciding what--if at all--I wanted to pursue.

 

Edit: I definitely checked and the "edit" post option is not available for first post, so I can't edit that. But yes, I hope to apply this upcoming fall........ so to attend the 2017 semesters.

sorry for the weird font changes, I just wanted to make sure anyone who passed by the thread could see it. 

Would doing absolutely amazing on the chemistry subject test help? 

Edited February 22, 2016 by scientific

[dells_of_bittersweet]

75th percentile and above should be fine for GRE. Amazing subject tests should help. 

The bottom line is that schools care about test scores as a tie breaker or an eliminator more than a determinator. They want to see amazing LORs and amazing undergrad research experience. 

GRE will get you into trouble if it is below the schools' minimum or if you are on the bubble and they are trying to decide between you and somebody with higher test scores. 

[scientific]

Dells_of_bittersweet, thank you for the information! 

I guess the big issue here is that since I have no gauge as to where I'm competitive/qualified to apply to, I'm not sure of what steps to take. I'd ideally not like to spend $500+ on applications if I have no shot/barely any shot. There are aspects of my application I know are weak, but others I feel are nothing to shake a stick at. I suppose that if I'm not a strong candidate, I'd rather take time to strengthen it through industry jobs, or perhaps trying to find work at a school. I'm just not entirely sure if I'm being overly ambitious or not. 

[dells_of_bittersweet]

18 minutes ago, scientific said:

Dells_of_bittersweet, thank you for the information! 

I guess the big issue here is that since I have no gauge as to where I'm competitive/qualified to apply to, I'm not sure of what steps to take. I'd ideally not like to spend $500+ on applications if I have no shot/barely any shot. There are aspects of my application I know are weak, but others I feel are nothing to shake a stick at. I suppose that if I'm not a strong candidate, I'd rather take time to strengthen it through industry jobs, or perhaps trying to find work at a school. I'm just not entirely sure if I'm being overly ambitious or not. 

You are not being overly ambitious. You have at least some chance at every one of those schools. Seize the opportunity and see what comes of it. You need to cover all your bases though. You have some very hot and very cold parts of your application. Your GPA is a problem, the ranking of your undergrad institution is a problem, and your time out of school could be considered a problem. On the other hand, you have great research experience and results. 

You need exceptional LORs to get into the schools you have listed. You might get them. You might not. You won't know because most professors don't share letters with you. If you have any doubt about any of them ask "can you write me a strong recommendation" before you put them down on the app. 

With the risks inherent in your application, I recommend casting a wide net. The schools you have listed are ranked between 6 and 41 on US News and World Report. That's a pretty good spread. I recommend adding one more school ranked 40 or below for security purposes. Vanderbilt, Boston College, Colorado State, USC, Arizona State, UC Riverside, and Notre Dame are all respected programs where you might have high odds of admission. 

With a wide net of top ranked schools and good but easier to get into schools, you should at least get in somewhere. 

Don't let money blind you into mortgaging your future. With GRE submission fees and application fees, you can estimate around $100 for each application. But what's $500 or even $1500 in the grand scheme of the rest of your life? Be parted from the money and be thankful for the opportunity to have invested it in your future. In my experience, I applied to 8 programs with so far only 1 acceptance and 2 I haven't heard from. The one I got accepted into was actually ranked in the middle of all the schools I applied to. Putting my finger into a lot of different pots was definitely worth it. I recommend that you apply to at least as many schools as I did. 

Finally, I'll say that working in industry for a while is unlikely to significantly increase the strength of your application and is likely to make your letter writers slowly forget their fond memories of you. With your background and experience, your ambition will be rewarded with an acceptance somewhere. I recommend that you apply for 2017, cast a wide net, hope for the best, have somewhere you can get in for sure, and start researching schools. 

Go through the faculty pages of every school in the Top 25 and see who has multiple faculty doing research that you think is exceptionally interesting and impactful. Apply to those schools. Do the same thing for at least a handful of schools ranked 25-60 to select your safety schools. 

Also skim read the past year of JACS and note who is doing really cool research. 

[aberrant]

On 2/22/2016 at 0:25 AM, scientific said:

sorry for the weird font changes, I just wanted to make sure anyone who passed by the thread could see it. 

Would doing absolutely amazing on the chemistry subject test help? 

Understood. You'll be fine as long as you briefly explained the times when you were not doing research, and you should be fine (I know a few folks from the Chemistry program at my current school had jobs before applying graduate school, actually. So your case isn't as sketchy as I would have thought).

Last time I check, GRE subject test score helps to a certain extent. Back in 2011/2012, I have been told by my LORs that +50% in subject test, for local students, are pretty good. So if you actually getting a 75% in a subject test, by the same standard, should be pretty impressive (whereas international students are expected to have a minimum of 80% or above, depending on schools). Higher percentile in subject test doesn't hurt for sure.

On 2/23/2016 at 11:38 PM, scientific said:

I guess the big issue here is that since I have no gauge as to where I'm competitive/qualified to apply to, I'm not sure of what steps to take. I'd ideally not like to spend $500+ on applications if I have no shot/barely any shot. There are aspects of my application I know are weak, but others I feel are nothing to shake a stick at. I suppose that if I'm not a strong candidate, I'd rather take time to strengthen it through industry jobs, or perhaps trying to find work at a school. I'm just not entirely sure if I'm being overly ambitious or not. 

In your personal statement, you'll need to address why you are applying a specific program (and/or schools) to pursue a PhD degree. So before you building a list of schools for application, you should consider a few things, such as your career goal -- does your "dream job" requires a PhD degree (in this case, in Chemistry)? Does it matter if your degree is from a top 10 program? How about a degree from a non-top 25 programs but from a famous / huge PI (a "big fish in a small pond" scenario)? Or would your "dream job" requires a PhD degree regardless of where you are getting your degree from? I think those questions will help shaping the list of schools that you should consider applying without breaking your bank (FYI, I did break my bank). Keep in mind that you want to do research that fits/interests you, so you definitely want to look into individual PIs research at a specific school/program, before actually applying to the program (e.g. I would apply to a "less known" school with 3 or multiple PIs that work on interesting things than a "most competitive" school that has only 1 PI that works on the same interesting topic). You can ultimately cut down your list based on locations and other personal preferences.

Hope it helps!

[St Andrews Lynx]

It wouldn't hurt to check in with your letter writers to ask about places they would recommend you apply to. I'd take their advice with a grain of salt (their knowledge of schools might be outdated or biased), but it will be useful info and hopefully multiple profs say roughly the same thing.