Rejected from 4 schools. How to improve for next time?

[pavlovianlove]

Hi all,

I applied to 4 social psychology programs this cycle, and was denied acceptance at all of them. One of them with a skype interview (Univ. of Illinois at Chicago) and three without interview (NYU, Virginia and USC). I am seriously considering applying next year, so I am looking for ways to strenghten my application for better results. 

I am an international student, graduated from a good Canadian school, UBC, with a 3.7/4.0 GPA. Have been involved in research since my second year, worked at three different labs from where I'm sure I got great LORs. I also have one publication at my school's Psych Undergrad Journal (not sure if this counts too much, but it's on my CV) and one presentation at the Psych Undergrad Research Conference. My GRE scores are 80 percentile on Writing, 81% on Verbal and 60% on Quant. I am not Canadian, by the way, and I currently live in South America but would definitely fly over to participate in interview weekends if invited.

I contacted most of my POI's by email in October to let them know of my interest in their research and to increase my chances of being remembered when their would be going through application files. None of them emailed me back though, which I guess is understandable as profs are very busy.

I realize my GRE scores are not that great, but I was banking on the fact that I had carefully selected POIs that fit well with my interests. NYU especially, I believe my interests aligned perfectly with my POI's lab, so I was dissapointed that I didn't hear back from them.

Could anyone give feedback on where I could improve my application? I was accepted to a Research Masters at VU University Amsterdam, which I considering attending if they offer me a scholarship. Unfortunately they don't decide on scholarship recipients until April. This masters takes 2 years, but would it later increase my chances of getting into the graduate programs I tried this year? Would staying put and retaking the GRE be a better idea? Do I need more research experience?

 

[PinkFreud22]

17 minutes ago, pavlovianlove said:

Hi all,

I applied to 4 social psychology programs this cycle, and was denied acceptance at all of them. One of them with a skype interview (Univ. of Illinois at Chicago) and three without interview (NYU, Virginia and USC). I am seriously considering applying next year, so I am looking for ways to strenghten my application for better results. 

I am an international student, graduated from a good Canadian school, UBC, with a 3.7/4.0 GPA. Have been involved in research since my second year, worked at three different labs from where I'm sure I got great LORs. I also have one publication at my school's Psych Undergrad Journal (not sure if this counts too much, but it's on my CV) and one presentation at the Psych Undergrad Research Conference. My GRE scores are 80 percentile on Writing, 81% on Verbal and 60% on Quant. I am not Canadian, by the way, and I currently live in South America but would definitely fly over to participate in interview weekends if invited.

I contacted most of my POI's by email in October to let them know of my interest in their research and to increase my chances of being remembered when their would be going through application files. None of them emailed me back though, which I guess is understandable as profs are very busy.

I realize my GRE scores are not that great, but I was banking on the fact that I had carefully selected POIs that fit well with my interests. NYU especially, I believe my interests aligned perfectly with my POI's lab, so I was dissapointed that I didn't hear back from them.

Could anyone give feedback on where I could improve my application? I was accepted to a Research Masters at VU University Amsterdam, which I considering attending if they offer me a scholarship. Unfortunately they don't decide on scholarship recipients until April. This masters takes 2 years, but would it later increase my chances of getting into the graduate programs I tried this year? Would staying put and retaking the GRE be a better idea? Do I need more research experience?

 

From my point of view, it sounds like you have a good application. Your GREs are pretty good but if you wanted to strengthen your application that would be a good place to start. If you think the masters program is a good fit then go for it but if you think going straight into a doctoral program would feel better for you then I would hold off a year and reapply  

It is possible that your POIs weren't taking students, particularly because they didn't respond to your emails. Next time, I would recommend being sure that your POIs have the funding and space in their lab to take a new graduate student. 

That's just my two sense but I hope it helps. Best of luck with these decisions! 

[Mcklock]

I would definitely suggest emailing the professors and asking, very politely, how you could improve to be a stronger candidate for the future/what your problem areas were. There are a number of issues that could have caused you not getting an acceptance, and I doubt it was your GRE score. While your quant is a bit low, I don't think it would play a major factor. Likely it had to do with research fit, your letters of rec, or your personal statement. Have you done any independent research? Do you have particular areas in mind that you want to further? We're you able to talk about your research experiences and what they have taught you? I think sometimes people may get rejected if they lack a certain depth--it's not enough to be interested in research; rather, you need to show you can think creatively and contribute to existing research  

 

I think the research masters is a great idea, you would get more experience and hopefully more publications out of it as well. Additionally you could try to get a research position somewhere. 

[Applicant 1746]

Sorry to hear about the disappointing news! This process is incredibly tough, and honestly, luck/timing plays into it a lot. You could apply out a different year with the exact same applications and have a different outcome -- it's definitely a "right place, right time" kind of thing. 

Are you just out of undergrad? What have you been doing since then? I would suggest looking into full-time, paid research assistant/lab manager positions, preferably in a social psych lab in an area that interests you. I'm in my second year as a full-time RA in social psych, and I think it helped my applications tremendously this cycle.

If you have the time, you may as well study for and retake the GRE. I also had a 60th percentile quant score, and I wish very much that I had put in more effort/time to raise it to at least 70th percentile. That said, the quant score alone probably wouldn't rule you out by an admissions committee. Still: may as well do everything you can to make your applications more competitive, right?

I'm happy to talk more by PM if it would be helpful (as I'm also in social psych -- as well as clinical/counseling, btw).

[pavlovianlove]

30 minutes ago, Mcklock said:

I would definitely suggest emailing the professors and asking, very politely, how you could improve to be a stronger candidate for the future/what your problem areas were. There are a number of issues that could have caused you not getting an acceptance, and I doubt it was your GRE score. While your quant is a bit low, I don't think it would play a major factor. Likely it had to do with research fit, your letters of rec, or your personal statement. Have you done any independent research? Do you have particular areas in mind that you want to further? We're you able to talk about your research experiences and what they have taught you? I think sometimes people may get rejected if they lack a certain depth--it's not enough to be interested in research; rather, you need to show you can think creatively and contribute to existing research  

 

Yeah, I thought about emailing profs for feedback, but when is an appropriate time? I imagine this month is a busy time for profs interviewing and admitting students. I read somewhere on this forum that after April 15th is ideal, but what do you guys think?

I didn't do independent research in the sense that I came up the the hypothesis I wanted to test and crafted the experiment, but in my forth year I was responsible for overseeing the progress of a grad student's research program. I ran experimental sessions, made sure we had the supplies, trained 2 other RAs to follow the protocol and I got to talk about the results at the undergrad research conference. Unfortunately there was no spot for me to write an honours thesis or start my own research project, but at least in this project I was very involved, meeting with the grad student and the prof on a regular basis. And I also got into the details of what this (and other) research projects taught me in my SOP.

 

[Guest joshw4288]

It can be very disappointing not getting any acceptances. I have been through it so I feel your pain. I first applied in 2012, receiving no PhD acceptances, but did get into the masters programs I applied to in the US. I enrolled in a masters program and reapplied for doctoral programs in 2013 with no acceptances. Finally, I graduate with my MA, reapplied a third time to doctoral programs and made it where I wanted to go. With that said, these are my thoughts:

1) I disagree with previous posters that your GRE scores are not problematic. 60th quant is not good and 80th writing and verbal are fine but not great. With a quant that low, your writing and verbal need be in the 90th to offset. I would retake them. 

2) You mention having 2-3 years of research experience but only have one conference presentation out of this. An admissions committee might question the quality of the actual experiences you received since there isn't much outcome from this. Did you do an honors thesis at UBC? That would do a lot to demonstrate your capability to do independent research rather than just set people up at a computer to partake in a study. Likewise, if you were involved in more complex aspects of the projects you worked on, did you discuss these in your application?

3) I am concerned as to whether all of your POI's were even taking students. Did their website's specifically state they were able to accept new students?

4) Make sure that your SOP demonstrates very specific research interests and ideas for projects. During our admissions cycles, the first people crossed off our list are people with vague research interests.

5) Once you make it to the interview, which you did, high importance is placed on your social skills. Department/labs want people that they will enjoy working with for the next 4-6 years. 

6) Keep in mind that your lab/POI is not the only deciding factor. Often, POI's get to submit a handful of people they are interested in taking but the rest of the committee a lot of decision making and which of those gets accepted. You'll know whether this is more the case if during interviews, you spend considerable time meeting with all of the other faculty members in your area. In this case, faculty members want to see that you have the potential to collaborate with other graduate students/faculty outside of your lab. If this wasn't the case, then your POI probably has almost exclusive authority. 

7) There is so much variability that admissions can often be a crapshoot. Faculty members rotate in who can take students. Graduate students and other faculty members get a say in who gets admitted. Sometimes even when a faculty member isn't taking a student, they may take a student (e.g., this year, my supervisor stated that she was not taking on new students. A few students applied anyway and my supervisor decided to hold interviews anyway in case we really like an applicant). Sometimes the number of applications is large, sometimes it's not. Sometimes the lab taking students can receive many applications, sometimes they get a handful. Casting a wide net is much better. Applying to 4 schools is not enough. You should be aiming for 10-12. It's part lottery and part preparation. 

[Mcklock]

@pavlovianlove a good time is hard to say, I can understand that they're busy but honestly I would do it sooner rather than later. They may forget key details later on, so asking while its freshest in their mind may be the best idea. I mean, they can always ignore it. 

 

[SeventhCircle]

I'd agree with everyone else: as a fellow Canadian applicant it seems like you have a decent package. Your GREs could use some work as I'd imagine that a 60 quant could only be offset by a very high score in another category. Unfortunately the consensus seems to be that unless you have a very compelling application or connections (ie. Presentations at large conferences or papers in high impact journals; well-connected supervisors that can vouch for you), the GREs are largely used during initial stages to dwindle down the application pool. I think this is especially true in the US, and in truth they matter more than profs let on. 

Do you have any special marketable skills? I've noticed that knowing a programming language or two gives you an edge and is especially desirable in psychology these days. 

Also, I think this largely goes without saying but you need to make a connection with a POI. Get them excited about you. Stroke their ego and show them that you have new, interesting ideas that will make them look good. It's as much as what you are capable of doing as what you have already done.

A lot of people suggest applying to a wide range of schools--which certainly works for some people. But it may be more economical and efficient to concentrate a lot of effort on a few places. This means reading in depth and having a good understanding of their work, understanding implicit implications of the work and where the field is headed. 

Also, out of curiosity, why didn't you apply to any Canadian schools? The UBC name might go a lot further in Canada. 

[pavlovianlove]

@SeventhCircleI didn't apply to any Canadian schools only because I didn't find professors that do research on topics that interest me and that are in universities in cities that I would like to live in. I seriously comtemplated applying to University of Winnipeg as there are a couple of profs with interesting research there, but I'm not sure I'd survive the winter long enough to get my degree.

[SeventhCircle]

4 hours ago, pavlovianlove said:

@SeventhCircleI didn't apply to any Canadian schools only because I didn't find professors that do research on topics that interest me and that are in universities in cities that I would like to live in.

Yeah, that was a problem for me as well. I'd recommend finding some schools in places where you would like to go, and emailing profs with your interests and seeing if you get any good feedback. A lot of the time, profs have interests that aren't stated on their website but are willing to explore with a student.

[khunconan]

You definitely need more research experience. Many (if not most) people applying to grad schools have already had at least 2-3 posters at regional/national conferences. To be honest, for some POI, one presentation at the "Psych Undergrad Research Conference" means nothing. You really need to present posters/papers beyond your own school. 

Moreover, did you list your paper from your school's undergrad journal as "publication" in your CV? If so, it can be a huge red flag to many people. In academia, there is a big difference between peer reviewed pub and non-peer reviewed one. When people list pub in their CV, it generally means peer reviewed publications. If you list your paper under "publication" section, your POI may think that you (1) don't know what publication really means or (2) are trying to create fault impression. For some POI, a paper from an undergrad journal means nothing so it can hurt you a lot if you say you have a pub, which for them is not even close. If you believe that paper can really help (like it's very relevant to your POI's research), you should make it clear by listing the paper under "non-peer reviewed publication" section.  

[Anniexu]

I read through all the posts here and do learn something. Thanks a lot..

I'm in a even worse situation, I got no ad. I'm thinking about (or I have to) taking a full time job.

Due to the large amout of applicants, it's almost impossible to get any feedback from the school, which I think is important for our improvement.

So I'm still trying to figure out the way to get improved, though I'm kind of giving up on my application now lol.

I'll keep stay optimistic but also realistic.

Good luck to you !