Yale Jackson or Fletcher?

[Shadowscholar123]

Hey guys,

So I've been accepted into a couple of programs including Yale, Fletcher, SIPA and SAIS, but have narrowed down my choices to Yale and Fletcher for now. 

While Fletcher has given me around 20K for two years, Yale gave me nothing. I like both the programs as IMO they are more academically focused compared to the others, which I like personally. If financial aid was not such a concern I would have been inclined towards Yale as, beyond the brand name (which is important for an international student like me), I like the idea of a small cohort and the flexibility that Yale offers in its program.

I like so many things about Fletcher, including its strengths in Diplomacy studies, its traditional reputation as a strong and flexible IR program, the really nice and friendly admissions and student community, as well as the opportunity to cross-register for courses at Harvard and MIT. Had I not received an offer from Yale, I would have pretty much pressed the accept button by now for Fletcher. 

I realize I'll have to take student debt to attend either schools, which is not as scary with Fletcher (65K with high possibility of TAship) but really scary with Yale (almost 100-120K including living and board). I'm wondering if the MA degree at Yale is worth the >100K given that its a relatively new program? Or Should I just go with Fletcher? 

Since I'm an International student from Canada I need to make a very careful choice in terms of which school to attend. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Edited March 16, 2016 by Shadowscholar123

[Colocho]

You and I are in almost identical situations! Fletcher has given me a bit more funding though. I'm curious how you got to need only 65k in loans from fletcher with 20k in scholarships... by my calculations the total cost of the MALD degree would be about 110k, including room, board, books, etc.

I'm excited to see people's input here. Yale doesn't seem to be as highly regarded professionally at Fletcher, and the Jackson Institute is relatively new.  But it's Yale we're talking about--so that counts for something! I wonder how employers would react to degrees from each institution. Yale's small cohort seems to be an advantage as well. Overall I don't think that Yale is a good choice unless you know exactly what you want to do and how you plan to do it--the curriculum is very unstructured, and MUCH more flexible that fletcher's.

Coincidentally admit weekend falls on the same dates for both institutions. Will you be attending either? And if you don't mind me asking, why did you say no to SAIS?

Edited March 16, 2016 by Colocho

[Shadowscholar123]

Hi Colocho, and congratulations on getting into Yale and Fletcher (alongwith other schools)!

The 65k is just an estimate I made pertaining to tuition specifically. While I am hoping to rely on some savings along with limited support from family, I am thinking I don't have to take as much a loan as might be required.

I do agree with a lot of the points you have mentioned above; however, I can mostly speak from the perspective of an international student. While Fletcher is definitely "Ivy" within the International Relations community, particularly in the United States, Yale's brand resonates throughout the globe in every sector whether in Canada, the Americas, Europe, Africa or Asia. So for someone who is not necessarily averse to looking at opportunities outside the US, I think Yale is definitely huge and the brand itself will let you stand out. Having said that however, I think the Fletcher school, given its strong traditional reputation in IR and excellent networks, is also no less (and as many of us can argue, actually 'better') than Jackson in many areas and has some core strengths that make it unique. While you might not have bragging rights in many communities when you mention Fletcher in comparison to Yale, I think in terms of future prospects Fletcher definitely has had a much more established record being the oldest IR institution in the US.

Also, while Yale does boast of a "small cohort", I think its also important to note (unless I'm wrong in my assumptions) that this might not necessarily mean a better student to teacher ratio. Every student undertakes an individualized course of study which could involve classes including 30 to as many as 50-70 students.Not sure if this makes a huge difference when compared to Fletcher's similar class sizes.

I'm considering attending Yale's Admitted Students Weekend as I will need more information on Yale to make a decision. I won't be attending Fletcher's Admitted Students Weekend since I have a pretty solid understanding of Fletcher's program, based on a lot of research I conducted on Fletcher and having talked to Fletcherites.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Shadowscholar123

[Shadowscholar123]

It's because of the following reasons that I will be declining SAIS (apologies to all the pro-SAIS folks here!):

1.They didn't offer me any funding and I can't afford an education in Italy 

2. Extremely large and impersonal class size

3. I got accepted through SAIS's EN process but there was barely anyone from SAIS who corresponded with me in the past couple of months (which also builds up on my previous point of SAIS's rather impersonal touch); compared to SIPA and Fletcher who were extremely active in promoting their programs and in reaching out to me

4. While SAIS and John Hopkins are pretty famous inside the US, I just don't think they are as prestigious as Yale, Columbia or Fletcher outside the US; I think the Ivy league brand matters internationally (I asked a contact of mine in China if he had heard of John Hopkins, he nudged,, when I told him about Yale and Columbia, he jumped off his chair)

5. Builds on the previous point, I think the Washington location of SAIS has more benefits for Americans who want to work for Federal Government agencies in the city than does it for non-Americans (including Canadians such as myself). I think the whole "being in DC helps in networking" applies more to American citizens.

6. While I did like the General IR concentration, I think its very unstructured

7. I didn't find SAIS very strong in Diplomacy studies

8. If I had to choose between Gtown (who are yet to get back to me) and SAIS, with either school providing no funding, I would go to Gtown anyday.

Sorry if I went overboard with my critique of SAIS, but I just don't think its the right program for an international student like me.

[MENAaddict]

First of all, congratulations on your admission to these programs!

However, I think you're conception about brand / reputation is a bit shortsighted. While I would totally agree with you when it comes to attending college, the case is - at least in my opinion - a bit different when deciding which IR graduate program to attend.

As an international student I had similar concerns when making my decision, and especially when you talk to people outside of your field the overall reputation of the "parent"-university seems to play a huge role (Harvard and Yale excel here certainly). What really counts in the end, however, is the reputation of each program within the respective community. I can tell you that many people I talked to knew very well about SAIS or Fletcher, but had never heard of Yale Jackson; Georgetown, SAIS, Fletcher etc. carry huge alumni networks with them which certainly make a difference when looking for a job later on. And while Yale impresses the outsider, people within the field don't really care about the Ivy name.

I don't want to say that Yale would be a bad choice. The program is superb, the small cohort a huge advantage and, considering that Jackson is relatively new, it'll also become more recognized in the future. What I want to say is that the "Ivy-argument" shouldn't affect your decision-making. Fletcher is very well know outside the US (much more than Yale Jackson), and has due to its "family character" also extremely helpful and responsive alumni (I'm sure you're already aware of that). Depending on where you want to work later on this could give you an edge over every Yale Jackson graduate.

Frankly, if I was you, I would take the 20k and attend Fletcher. It's a lot of money and graduating with less debt outweighs the "Ivy-argument" in any case.

 

 

[pyrhuss]

Curiously enough, I'm in the opposite position. I got full tuition from Jackson, but I still haven't come around to convince myself of going to Yale over Fletcher/SAIS/Columbia who all offered me half-tuition, for many of the same reasons @MENAaddict mentions above:

3 hours ago, MENAaddict said:

As an international student I had similar concerns when making my decision, and especially when you talk to people outside of your field the overall reputation of the "parent"-university seems to play a huge role (Harvard and Yale excel here certainly). What really counts in the end, however, is the reputation of each program within the respective community. I can tell you that many people I talked to knew very well about SAIS or Fletcher, but had never heard of Yale Jackson; Georgetown, SAIS, Fletcher etc. carry huge alumni networks with them which certainly make a difference when looking for a job later on. And while Yale impresses the outsider, people within the field don't really care about the Ivy name.

I don't want to say that Yale would be a bad choice. The program is superb, the small cohort a huge advantage and, considering that Jackson is relatively new, it'll also become more recognized in the future. What I want to say is that the "Ivy-argument" shouldn't affect your decision-making. Fletcher is very well know outside the US (much more than Yale Jackson), and has due to its "family character" also extremely helpful and responsive alumni (I'm sure you're already aware of that). Depending on where you want to work later on this could give you an edge over every Yale Jackson graduate.

Particularly, I worry about the lack of dedicated faculty and real-world practitioners (besides the odd Senior Fellow who only teach one class each), a small to non-existent alumni network and small choice of IR classes since most coursework would take place in disciplinary departments or the other professional schools. At the same time, the overall Yale brand does appeal to me and it might be foolish to turn down such an offer. After all, every alumni I ever talked to pretty much recommended to go where you get the best funding and minimize debt.

I'm an international student as well by the way.

Edited March 17, 2016 by pyrhuss

[Ejc5ys]

For what it's worth (I'm definitely headed to Jackson given my visit there and funding), the lack of network/IR classes  that y'all mention above isn't the same impression I got. But I want to flag my own bias, since I'm amping myself up to go to Yale, and I turned down a bunch of other options to do so.

While the Senior Fellows and professors like Gaddis don't teach as many classes, they host students at their homes every week, and come to know them incredibly well. Similarly, by virtue of the flexibility of the program, you're not simply getting the network of the Jackson School--you're getting the network of every professor at Yale, including those in the law school, politics doctorate programs, and much more. All of the students I've spoken to have had no trouble getting involved in their field of choice right away, partially because each class is so small that they work together to ensure the correct person is nominated for individual fellowships and awards, and because each Senior Fellow and professor know the Jackson students so well that they can invest a great deal of time calling their contacts around the world. Anecdotally, one Jackson student that I spoke to mentioned that he had always wanted to work in the Treasury Department--the Jackson Senior Fellows introduced him to a professor who, after one conversation, called a former National Security Council "friend", and he had a job for the summer between his years of study, and an offer to continue afterwards. Additionally, the IR classes are actually plentiful, since there are so many politics classes outside of Jackson--at least they were when I looked at the course offerings. It may be worth looking over one of those!

I'm sure either program will be fabulous, and you will be happy wherever you go--we're splitting atoms here! But I wanted to make sure you knew that the network of the Jackson Institute appears to be the network of Yale, which has some significant clout around the world. Good luck to everyone in making their choices--I weirdly think it always works out how it's supposed to!

[Shadowscholar123]

Thanks for your comments guys.

While I do acknowledge that Yale folks would have amazing networks in key departments, I assume Fletcher still has a huge advantage here. I think through Fletcher there are also connections you can make at Harvard and MIT, if you're pro-active that is, besides Tufts which can pay enormous dividends in terms of getting work after graduation. Also, Ejc5ys, it's great to hear that the aforementioned Jackson student's contact at Yale helped them find a job with the NSC; however, I'm not sure if that's the 'norm' over at Jackson. I'd love to know more on how such networks help international students find good jobs.

Also, another strong point about Fletcher is their established strengths in different fields of IR. I'm particularly interested in Diplomacy studies, and the Fletcher School has a robust diplomacy curriculum. Established Faculty folks in diplomacy studies such as Alan Henrikson, as well as many others, also teach at Harvard's Kennedy School. In fact, the only other schools which have similar strengths in diplomacy studies are Gtown and HKS. I'm not sure how Jackson fares in this area. I'm certain that Jackson has made strides in establishing itself in different facets of IR; however, I'm just not sure if Jackson is "known for" a certain area within IR. While this can certainly be attributed to the fact its a relatively new school compared to the others, I'm not sure how well this would translate with potential high profile employers who might be looking for specialists graduating with core concentrations (as is generally the case with other schools) in a certain area within IR; which also leads me to another similar point, that while being too flexible might appear nice, it might also be a severe disadvantage when meeting with employers who are looking for folks who specialized through a more structured and refined curriculum. I personally think there is much less uncertainty attached to structured curriculums as compared to unstructured ones. (These are purely my assumptions, and subsequent speculations)

I guess I'll have to do a lot of thinking in the next couple of weeks on deciding between Fletcher or Yale. It just might be Fletcher, echoing what pyrhuss said, "I just can't get myself to come around attending Yale" especially with a 100K debt towards the end of it. I guess attending Yale's Admitted Student's Weekend will help clear some doubts.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Shadowscholar123

[pyrhuss]

Anyone heading to either Fletcher's or Jackson's Admitted Students Weekend and would mind sharing their impressions afterwards?