NRC rankings

[Mondo]

I'm dying to see the NRC English graduate program ranking. I don't know why they keep postponing the release date. Does anyone have any idea when it'll come out? Do you think it won't be much different from the US News ranking? And is it really worth applying to programs ranked below 40 or 50, considering the economy and the bleak job prospect?

[JennyFieldsOriginal]

i think that if by some chance a program that is a "big name" is somehow low ranked you shouldn't worry too much about the rankings. from what i've heard the ratings aren't taken terribly seriously by professors, but there is a lot of internal chatter about what kinds of dissertations come out of which schools. i spoke with one of my teachers about this and she said that it's pretty much nothing unexpected. schools you think are good probably are.

that said, if you have a specific specialty i'd worry more about a school's reputation in your field than general rankings. of course, if a school you want to go to for, say, 18th century british lit is full of really famous academics who are all 90 and not long for this world i'd reconsider going there.

also, keep in mind exactly what kind of placement graduates from a school are getting. i'm thinking of unc. they seem to be really good at getting graduates placed in schools in the south. if that really doesn't float your boat you may want to look elsewhere even if their ranking and placement statistics are good. this is just what i've gleaned from the website and superficial chatter of graduate students though.

for all my blabbering, i'm still obsessed with seeing the rankings!

[greekdaph]

I know what you mean, Jenny, about being obsessed with rankings even while doubting their validity. In my mind, though, rankings matter less as objective calculations of a program's strength (obviously, they're extremely flawed) than as engines that can drive the number of applications a school receives. While we all know that fit is the most important criteria of all when deciding which schools to apply to, who hasn't thrown in an application to a few very highly-ranked programs just to see what happens? As a result, then, programs that are highly-ranked get more applications and, thus, can choose their students from a more competitive pool of applicants, perpetuating, at least to some degree, their high standing.

As for the NRC rankings: keep in mind that faculty turnover is such that by the time this round of NRC rankings even gets released (which I imagine will be soonish), they'll be outdated. Also, the economic situation is rapidly reshaping the graduate landscape, and while the rankings, both because of when they were calculated and because of the methodology they use, won't fully reflect that, it's very important to look at what kinds of support programs provide for their graduate students. Plenty of students choose against a more highly-ranked program (I'm one of them!) because that program doesn't have the right atmosphere for them or can't provide a good funding and teaching structure. (Berkeley is a classic example here, in that they don't fund all of their graduate students, or fund them all equally, and people turn them down for precisely that reason.)

Mondo, it certainly is worth applying to programs below 40 or 50 because those rankings aren't the best indicator of a program's placement record. It's impossible to know what the job landscape will look like in 6-7 years anyway, but take a look at placement records, keeping in mind that the schools who have the best track records are also the ones most likely to publicize them (and don't be afraid to e-mail programs for this information!). Ask, too, how programs help their students find academic jobs. Also, look not just at placement more generally but at how students in your particular area of interest get placed. There's two ways to approach this latter inquiry: some programs operate more by the it-takes-a-village model and have similar placement across fields, while at others, your fortunes are tied more to the professor who chairs your dissertation; you'll want to see, then, how students of the professors you're most likely to work with do on the job market.

What this all boils down to, ultimately, is two things;

1. I'd argue that the most important criteria for choosing programs is the answer to this question: Where are you most likely to do your best work? While your school's reputation may help ensure that your job application gets read, your work must, ultimately, speak for itself. Yes, it's often the case that the "top" programs have the best resources to guide your work, but that's not always true.

2. Rankings are far too general to cover the specific needs of any applicant. Ultimately, then, what matters most is FIT. A school that's ranked lower than 50 may still have faculty that will be really, really important to the kind of work you want to do, and that consideration should, in my mind, trump that school's standing on inherently dubious ranked lists.

[Mondo]

Most of the English grad program websites don't include any placement records. If there's any, it's often vague. I think it should be mandated that each English grad program post the complete list of all dissertation titles, the complete placement records and the annual cohort size. The lack of transparency is amazing, often misleading applicants or even current students in programs, which makes it almost impossible to predict how you will fit in a program unless you end up there and spend a year. That's probably what many programs aim for, that is, they recruit a highly competitive pool of students by any means possible, and once they're there, they're at their mercy--they're not going anywhere.

Greekdaph, faculty turnover is a serious problem. It's more severe in low ranked programs, especially in schools located in undesirable places. I guess your "it-takes-a-village model" refers to top programs' alumni success and network, which less prestigious programs don't have--so if they place their graduates somewhere, it's often through their supervisors' connection.

"that said, if you have a specific specialty i'd worry more about a school's reputation in your field than general rankings. of course, if a school you want to go to for, say, 18th century british lit is full of really famous academics who are all 90 and not long for this world i'd reconsider going there."

JennyFieldsOriginal, this makes me laugh. Well, I've seen a relatively young professor in his late forties or early fifties die. I think it's taken a toll on him to go through the tenure process after several years of graduate school and years of stressful job search. Good men die young, people say, and I concur.

I hope that the NRC rankings are not much different from the US News rankings. I guess it's worth applying to programs ranked below 40 or 50 if they have some track record of success in job placement. UNC must have a nice atmosphere as you both recommend it. They're probably good at placing their graduates in schools in the South because they have strength in Southern lit, which is really not my area.