Fordham vs. Baruch (or CCNY or Brooklyn) for MA in Mental Health Counseling

[CaffeinatedCounselor]

I was wondering--how much does the reputation of the school matter when it comes to a degree in Mental Health Counseling?

I applied to Baruch, Fordham, CCNY, and Brooklyn. So far I have been accepted to Baruch and Fordham and I have interviews at Brooklyn and CCNY (no idea how those will go yet...but I'm still in the running.)

I like Baruch's department--I feel very much at home on that campus and really like the faculty. I also love the fact that the program is tiny and the people I know who've gone there have been very happy with their decisions in the past. Also, for the issues I'm most concerned with, there are two faculty members who would make excellent mentors. Overall, I just like the tight-knit, supportive, and organized nature of the program. It also helps that I can also pay for Baruch with no (or almost no) loans. 

Fordham, however, will require that I take out large loans even if I get a partial grad assistantship. I'm worried about paying the money back on a counselor's salary. The commitment to a grad assistantship will cut into time I would rather spend interning (I've contacted a potential practicum site that works with my population of interest and will start volunteering soon), teaching (I'm an adjunct now), or in a lab connected to something I care about (I would like to do research as a volunteer for a while). Also the program doesn't feel as warm and supportive as Baruch does and I think I want that at this particular point in my training because I'm expecting counseling training to be emotionally intense. I do like the faculty at Fordham too, though. The biggest worry I have with Baruch is I wonder if Fordham will help me get better internships than Baruch. Moreover, the research opportunities at Fordham seem great...but I can make them for myself at either Baruch or CCNY as long as I put in some extra effort (I'm affiliated with CCNY currently and think that I could possibly join a lab if I ask). 

I don't know. Is the debt worth it for Fordham? Are the internships worth it? Are there any advantages to Fordham over Baruch that I'm not thinking about at this point?

I know this probably matters, but, career wise I'm torn between working at non-profits, private practice, and maybe a PhD later to go into academia (sounds scattered...I promise it's not we can save that rambling for another day). 

Edited March 29, 2016 by CaffeinatedCounselor

[lepetitfaon]

I am in a similar position as you - accepted to Fordham, Hunter, Baruch and waiting to hear back from Teachers College. I too have been weighing the reputation of a school vs practical fit and thought I would share some thoughts I've had.

I met with a friend who recently graduated from Teachers College who informed me that she applied to numerous internship placements and competed for placement among not only her own classmates but mental health students from other schools as well as social work students from her school and others. She landed a "very good placement" but many of her classmates found themselves in less desirable internships. Her take was that her resume demonstrated more experience than many of her classmates who came straight from undergraduate studies and lacked experience in working directly with people. She informed me there were students from less prestigious schools also at her site but like her were older and had quite a bit of experience prior to graduate studies. My take away from this is that the reputation of a school is likely to bolster the resume of someone inexperienced but is not necessary to get a good internship, especially for those with quite a bit of prior experience. Based on your post it sounds like you have plenty of prior experience.

Given that Baruch is such a new program they certainly have fewer connections than other programs do but if you found a site to volunteer at already then it sounds like you're fully capable of reaching out to prospective places and building a connection yourself. I have quite a niche area within mental health where I would like to work so the ability to take such a hands on role in my internship placement is actually a positive attribute of a program but I can see how one wouldn't wish to be burdened with having to take such a hands on approach while also focusing on their studies.

I cannot speak for the graduate program at Baruch but I attended Baruch as an undergraduate in psychology and absolute loved the faculty, location, building, price, etc. It is actually a far more competitive program than Fordham. According to Peterson's the acceptance rate is 36% at Baruch's mental health program vs Fordham' 73%. I am also put off by programs that do not interview potential students given so much of counseling is how you communicate one on one with people!

I have to say it depends largely on what you see yourself doing. If you plan on having a private practice then the name of your school can certainly help. If you're business savvy and know how to market yourself or are willing to pay someone to do so then this matters less. If you plan on continuing your studies after a master's research will obviously be an important part of your resume and Fordham has A LOT more to offer in that department. To me this is the biggest thing that Fordham has to offer over Baruch. However, there are still possibilities at Baruch. But if you ultimately see yourself in a non-profit, clinic, hospital, or school setting I cannot stress enough how NOT worth it is to take out loans for your studies. I was a teacher previously and thankfully graduated without debt but many of my coworkers from far more prestigious schools were swimming and debt and here were working at the same place for the same paltry salary. Personally it doesn't make sense to go into debt for a job that has such a minimal starting salary and low ceiling. I too am considering a PhD after my masters and am also concerned about attending a newer and lesser known program. I have decided to do a concurrent yearlong masters through CUNY Grad Center related to my relatively niche mental health interest in hopes of that rounding out my resume and making me a more competitive phd applicant if I decide to pursue that in the future. Perhaps if you do research while doing your master's this will give you an edge and make up for attending a lesser known program.

I honestly feel that if you're hard working, competent, and experienced you'll be fine regardless of where you go. Good luck!

[CaffeinatedCounselor]

I thought it was weird that Fordham didn't do any interviews. What degree are you planning on doing concurrently at the GC?

I love the Baruch department too--I didn't do undergrad there but I spent a lot of my undergrad years there because of an REU after which I didn't leave because I loved it so much. I just came out of a CCNY interview yesterday (where I did my undergrad) and realized that if I get an acceptance there it would be a good place for research that fits my interests. So, now, I really don't know anymore. I'll just wait.

 

[El_Consejero]

I'm finding myself in a similar boat. I've been accepted to Fordham, NYU, Columbia TC, Hunter, and City. I've all but ruled out Colubmia and NYU because of cost, and find myself debating between Fordham, Hunter, and City. If anyone has any input, I would be much obliged. Here are my thoughts:

Fordham: Offered me a 25% tuition scholarship, so would cost me about 60k in loans to attend. I went to a Jesuit high school and college, so I do appreciate that tradition and it seems to infuse the counseling curriculum quite heavily. I have friends and colleagues who have completed the school counseling program and have given it rave reviews. My current work has taken me to their campus quite a few times, and I have always come away very impressed with the infrastructure. They have a career counselor dedicated solely to helping alums of the counseling program find employment after school. This program would also, I believe, give me a greater potential to move on to doctoral-level study(I could see myself wanting to teach counseling someday as well as going into practice). If I were to take out these loans, I'd likely rely on securing a position with the National Health Services Corps to repay 50k, but it's scary to consider a huge variable like that being used for repayment. 

Total Loans: 60k+(maybe 5-10 more for living expenses)

 

Hunter: Is the cheapest option because I could still work full-time in addition to attending class(at least during the semesters I am not doing internship). However, this is the program I am least familiar with. I didn't interview, and the website is a bit difficult to navigate, so it's been a little hard to figure out exactly which faculty teach in the mental health counseling specialization, and what their research interests are. I hear that the program is well-regarded, but I haven't had any first-hand encounter with the school or faculty (I am working on getting in touch with current students). The Handbook is online, but hasn't been updated since 2012. All I can really say about this program is that it's cheap, so if anybody has heard anything else regarding reputation, please do share. 

Total Loans: ~21k (+5-10)

 

City College: This is a very small program(which appeals to me), and during my interview I felt I was able to connect well to the two faculty members I met. In researching the other faculty, I feel that, despite there being only seven of them, they have a diverse range of research experiences and theoretical orientations. The building itself was a little shabby, but then again all you really need to do counseling is a couple of chairs. It is a full-time program, so while I would be comforted by knowing it would be totally finished in two years, I wouldn't be able to work as much to pay rent, and would have to rely at least partially on loans to cover living expenses. Also, whereas the other two degrees are M.S.Ed, this is an M.A. program, and I've heard that may come into play if accreditation rules are tightened up in the future. One professor who interviewed me did say that it's rare for students of this program to move on to PhD work(but that it isn't impossible). The community seems to be very tight-knit, which strikes me as important for development as a counselor. 

Total Loans: Likely about 40k, assuming living expenses while attending full-time. Potentially fewer if I were able to save up during summers, but I am coming into this with no savings, having been an Americorps volunteer these past two years. 

I apologize if this is considered hijacking the original thread, but because both the original poster and I seem to have similar issues, I thought it might be appropriate to add to the discussion. 

[CaffeinatedCounselor]

@El_Consejero You're not high jacking this thread  your answer is really relevant and is helping me think through this too. 

I just declined Fordham about an hour ago--I can't afford it. I got about 3K a semester. I'm thankful but also very broke :(.  Now I'm choosing between Baruch and City. The point that you bring up about MA vs. MSEd really terrifies me--Fordham was the only MSEd program I applied to so now, if my Brooklyn interview goes well, the choice would be between three MAs. I wasn't thinking enough about this when I applied because a PhD within the next 5-10 years has always been the plan. 

I like CCNY. I did my undergrad there (it was a BA/MA program...so I was actually also an MA student in the same department even though I was technically an undergrad). The program is small and my friends who went there are doing well (one has a private practice that's fairly successful). I am really into multicultural issues and mental health and there are at least 3 faculty members whose interests mesh with mine. With CCNY, I would look into teaching opportunities for both experience and supplemental income. I don't know if this is true for this coming semester (given budget cuts...don't get me started) but at CCNY there can be many opportunities for TA-ing. Just make sure you ask. When I was an undergrad, a lot of my friends TA-ed through their degree (they were mostly in the gen MA program with me and not the MHC program). PhD/GC students who are guaranteed funding under their contracts would be assured a position, but there are always plenty of opportunities for MA students to teach/TA. They would love you if you have the talent, experience, and interest. I have either taught or TA-ed a lot in that department since I graduated in 2012. I love the department, the faculty, the students, etc. CCNY is a place where, if you're willing to advocate for yourself, there are lots of opportunities. (Who were the faculty members you met, if you don't mind me asking? Feel free to PM me instead of putting that information out there on this thread if you would like.)

For me it's really between Baruch and City. City has more of the research that fit my interests and more opportunities for research/teaching which, because I want the PhD, are important. I love the Baruch program though. If I wasn't planning on a PhD after this, that's probably where I'd go simply because I feel really really comfortable there. 

Hunter is a pretty good program--it has a fairly solid reputation for creating good counselors from what I've heard in the CUNY system (I did my undergrad at CCNY...was a BA/MA student and spent much of my undergrad years at Baruch). I wish I had applied. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by CaffeinatedCounselor

[CaffeinatedCounselor]

Thanks guys...after mulling it over, I made the decision. Going to CCNY to get another degree from the same department. 

[lepetitfaon]

To El Consejero, I cannot speak to Brooklyn as I didn't apply or City as I never heard from them oddly enough so I'm going to assume rejection  (I kind of figured I didn't really follow the instructions of the application and forgot to attach the keys to my transcripts oops!)

However, after looking into Hunter it just didn't feel as organized and streamlined as other programs. They say most students are able to graduate within two and a half years. Big downside for me as other programs it's two years start to finish. I personally hate the idea of evening classes and classes 4 days a week. Many of the other programs you attend class two days a week and three days off for internship. Personally this schedule appeals more to me as I'm late 20's career changer and all of my friends and significant other live a standard 9-5 schedule. I saw Hunter as a sure way to never see a soul from my normal life and feel isolated. I do plan to work part time during my schooling but the hours I work are very odd and early so having to be at school late and wake up at 5 AM to get to work for my early am shift would be exhausting. At the end of the day Hunter wasn't just a practical fit for my life and I think as good as a program is or as good as a school is that aspect cannot be overlooked. With that said it sounds like Hunter would be a great fit practically speaking for you and you should go for that. I think at the end of the day reputation of a program is a lot less important than what it can do for you and your life, where it fits with you and your life.

To CaffienatedCounselor congratulations on the big decision! I actually just dropped my deposit off at Baruch today, like you I'm back where I did my undergraduate studies in the same department. I'm sure I would have been happy elsewhere but sometimes it's good to go with what you know when it's a major decision so I totally respect your choice as I did the same thing! I'm doing a masters in disability studies at the CUNY GC btw. Good luck with your studies! I think given you want to get your phd later it's a great decision on your part.

[CaffeinatedCounselor]

I love the Baruch dept...I'm going to miss them. But I think that if I have aspirations for a PhD... which I am about 95% sure is the direction towards which I'm leaning, the research and teaching opportunities are much better at City than Baruch. So yeah I'm staying where I am. Good luck to you too lepetitfaon. 

PS. What department is an MA in Disability Studies in/what is the focus? That is such an interesting sounding program.

[El_Consejero]

Thanks for the input, lepetitfaon, and congratulations on your decision of Baruch! Your comments about class scheduling and being able to see your friends isn't something I'd previously considered - my significant other and friends adhere to much the same schedule, so that's something I'll have to consider that as well. 

Taking the weekend to carefully consider my decision - currently leaning towards CCNY. Thanks all for your valuable input! 

 

[El_Consejero]

After an intense week of thinking about my decision, I've opted to go with CCNY. Thank you everyone for your advice!

[CaffeinatedCounselor]

 Looks like I may bump into both of you sometime in the future! Take care.

[AllieCat1992]

On April 6, 2016 at 1:07 PM, El_Consejero said:

I'm finding myself in a similar boat. I've been accepted to Fordham, NYU, Columbia TC, Hunter, and City. I've all but ruled out Colubmia and NYU because of cost, and find myself debating between Fordham, Hunter, and City. If anyone has any input, I would be much obliged. Here are my thoughts:

Fordham: Offered me a 25% tuition scholarship, so would cost me about 60k in loans to attend. I went to a Jesuit high school and college, so I do appreciate that tradition and it seems to infuse the counseling curriculum quite heavily. I have friends and colleagues who have completed the school counseling program and have given it rave reviews. My current work has taken me to their campus quite a few times, and I have always come away very impressed with the infrastructure. They have a career counselor dedicated solely to helping alums of the counseling program find employment after school. This program would also, I believe, give me a greater potential to move on to doctoral-level study(I could see myself wanting to teach counseling someday as well as going into practice). If I were to take out these loans, I'd likely rely on securing a position with the National Health Services Corps to repay 50k, but it's scary to consider a huge variable like that being used for repayment. 

Total Loans: 60k+(maybe 5-10 more for living expenses)

 

Hunter: Is the cheapest option because I could still work full-time in addition to attending class(at least during the semesters I am not doing internship). However, this is the program I am least familiar with. I didn't interview, and the website is a bit difficult to navigate, so it's been a little hard to figure out exactly which faculty teach in the mental health counseling specialization, and what their research interests are. I hear that the program is well-regarded, but I haven't had any first-hand encounter with the school or faculty (I am working on getting in touch with current students). The Handbook is online, but hasn't been updated since 2012. All I can really say about this program is that it's cheap, so if anybody has heard anything else regarding reputation, please do share. 

Total Loans: ~21k (+5-10)

 

City College: This is a very small program(which appeals to me), and during my interview I felt I was able to connect well to the two faculty members I met. In researching the other faculty, I feel that, despite there being only seven of them, they have a diverse range of research experiences and theoretical orientations. The building itself was a little shabby, but then again all you really need to do counseling is a couple of chairs. It is a full-time program, so while I would be comforted by knowing it would be totally finished in two years, I wouldn't be able to work as much to pay rent, and would have to rely at least partially on loans to cover living expenses. Also, whereas the other two degrees are M.S.Ed, this is an M.A. program, and I've heard that may come into play if accreditation rules are tightened up in the future. One professor who interviewed me did say that it's rare for students of this program to move on to PhD work(but that it isn't impossible). The community seems to be very tight-knit, which strikes me as important for development as a counselor. 

Total Loans: Likely about 40k, assuming living expenses while attending full-time. Potentially fewer if I were able to save up during summers, but I am coming into this with no savings, having been an Americorps volunteer these past two years. 

I apologize if this is considered hijacking the original thread, but because both the original poster and I seem to have similar issues, I thought it might be appropriate to add to the discussion. 

May I ask what your application stats looked like to get into NYU and Columbia? They are my top choices.

[A cee]

Hello everyone. I know this post is quite old, but I figured I’ll give it a shot. Can anyone give me some tips for Baruch and CCNYs interview process? I have upcoming interviews and am not sure what to expect. Thanks