Harvard BBS vs. Stanford Biosciences (Genetics)

[chili]

Hi everyone! 

I'm a bit of a non-traditional student. I graduated from Stanford University 5 years ago, worked for a while in industry and then came back to a Stanford Univ lab to do research this year while applying to grad school (PhD in genetics/genomics/computational biology). I have been very fortunate to have lots of options and have now narrowed it down to Stanford genetics and Harvard BBS- genetics. Born and raised on the west coast, I have heard a lot of rumors about what the culture and environment is like in Boston. Multiple people have warned me about the high pressure, work hard environment that exists in science at Harvard, competition within labs and minimal collaboration. I've heard there are lots of opportunities but it's a bit sink or swim.

These rumors concern me and I'm not sure how true they really are. Stanford Genetics is a great program and I'm sure I will be happy if I stay here, but I'm also excited for a change, to be in a new place for the next stage. 

I'd love any thoughts you all want to share!

[Bioenchilada]

I think that what you've heard about Harvard is not entirely true. I did A summer internship there and I don't think that I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone or that the environment wasn't collaborative. I think this is mainly lab dependent. I honestly loved Boston and Harvard Medical School. If I were you, I'd go to BBS if you would be happy at both places in order to avoid intellectual incest, though I'm pretty sure this won't affect you since Stanford is already in the top 3 lol

[yogi77]

I agree that it is lab-dependent, but there is also a different vibe overall (more competition) than what I've heard about on the west coast. Personally, I would stay with what I know is good - Stanford has a great program and is just as well-respected as Harvard BBS.

[Superres]

Hey! Not sure if you've made a decision yet. I too am struggling with whether or not I should stay at my current academic institution because I really like the city itself or whether I should venture off for a change. I'm originally from Cambridge so I can speak a bit about living there. I think that there are many pros and cons. The public transpiration (the T) is really great and Boston is one of the few places that I think you can actually survive without a car. I can't speak for Stanford's campus, but what I do know about Harvard is that the labs can be really spread out. Some in Boston, some in Cambridge, and some even in Belmont, which may make the first couple of years a little difficult while taking classes. Also, if you're not a huge fan of the snow, you may want to consider staying in Cali. The winters can be pretty brutal. But then again that's only 3-5 months of the year....spending on how bad the winter is. I personally loved growing up in Cambridge though. It's a very diverse place and you can find a little bit of everything there. 

I feel like you definitely can't go wrong with either places. But if you do want to experience living on the east coast, grad school may be a good time to do it, since you're only committed to 5-6 ish years. 

[Bioenchilada]

2 hours ago, PlanB said:

I would say go with Stanford. As you mentioned, you will probably be happier and are already familiar with the university. Plus, there are so many biotech companies in California to get a job at when you graduate. 

Lol there's a lot of biotech companies in the Boston/Cambridge area as well.

[biochemgirl67]

On 4/6/2016 at 1:37 PM, chili said:

Hi everyone! 

I'm a bit of a non-traditional student. I graduated from Stanford University 5 years ago, worked for a while in industry and then came back to a Stanford Univ lab to do research this year while applying to grad school (PhD in genetics/genomics/computational biology). I have been very fortunate to have lots of options and have now narrowed it down to Stanford genetics and Harvard BBS- genetics. Born and raised on the west coast, I have heard a lot of rumors about what the culture and environment is like in Boston. Multiple people have warned me about the high pressure, work hard environment that exists in science at Harvard, competition within labs and minimal collaboration. I've heard there are lots of opportunities but it's a bit sink or swim.

These rumors concern me and I'm not sure how true they really are. Stanford Genetics is a great program and I'm sure I will be happy if I stay here, but I'm also excited for a change, to be in a new place for the next stage. 

I'd love any thoughts you all want to share!

It depends on the lab, really.  However, I will say that there is a distinct culture to the Harvard community.  It definitely is intense and you are expected to work hard.  But again, I'd like to express that it really depends on the lab.  There is a fair amount of collaboration.  However, it can be difficult to find a PI who is intimately involved in the lab.  A lot of the tenure-track professors are famous and very very busy.  My PI was gone for weeks at a time and it definitely took a concerted effort to meet with him 4 times in 10 weeks.  Obviously this isn't global (but I've heard a lot of similar stories) and it truly depends on the lab, but it was my personal experience.  I would definitely go back as a postdoc.  Especially knowing that I would be more independent at that point in my career.  When I got rejected from Harvard, I was so crushed.  However, after I stopped and thought about my experience and what I really needed as a developing scientist, I realized it probably was a good thing I didn't get in.  I would have accepted regardless of how much I liked anywhere else (I was a tad starstruck) but with reflection I realized I wanted to have a PhD program with more support with more engaged faculty.  I'm not going to tell you what you should do because no one can.  The East Coast is definitely not as relaxed as the West and Harvard can fulfill some of the stereotypes it has, depending on how you go about your education there.

Oh, and as a P.S., I spent 10 weeks working at Boston Children's Hospital last summer.  I was in a small lab and still had only limited access to my PI.  And the expectations about presentations and critiques of papers were EXTREMELY high.  I once saw my PI and all the other lab heads on the floor get into a fight about the implications of one scientist's data and why it was invalid (or not) compared to their own research.  Each professor definitely wanted his or her project to be "right" and refused to accept any other explanations.  Oh, and my PI also once threw a manuscript hardcopy at his research manager (who had a PhD) when they had a disagreement about how something should be presented and yelled, "I'm the scientist, you're not, and I'm going to write the paper!  So don't you tell me how to write a paper!"

Needless to say, I would NOT work for someone like that.  He is very famous and busy and also a bit arrogant.

Edited April 10, 2016 by biochemgirl67

[Bioenchilada]

14 minutes ago, biochemgirl67 said:

It depends on the lab, really.  However, I will say that there is a distinct culture to the Harvard community.  It definitely is intense and you are expected to work hard.  But again, I'd like to express that it really depends on the lab.  There is a fair amount of collaboration.  However, it can be difficult to find a PI who is intimately involved in the lab.  A lot of the tenure-track professors are famous and very very busy.  My PI was gone for weeks at a time and it definitely took a concerted effort to meet with him 4 times in 10 weeks.  Obviously this isn't global (but I've heard a lot of similar stories) and it truly depends on the lab, but it was my personal experience.  I would definitely go back as a postdoc.  Especially knowing that I would be more independent at that point in my career.  When I got rejected from Harvard, I was so crushed.  However, after I stopped and thought about my experience and what I really needed as a developing scientist, I realized it probably was a good thing I didn't get in.  I would have accepted regardless of how much I liked anywhere else (I was a tad starstruck) but with reflection I realized I wanted to have a PhD program with more support with more engaged faculty.  I'm not going to tell you what you should do because no one can.  The East Coast is definitely not as relaxed as the West and Harvard can fulfill some of the stereotypes it has, depending on how you go about your education there.

Oh, and as a P.S., I spent 10 weeks working at Boston Children's Hospital last summer.  I was in a small lab and still had only limited access to my PI.  And the expectations about presentations and critiques of papers were EXTREMELY high.  I once saw my PI and all the other lab heads on the floor get into a fight about the implications of one scientist's data and why it was invalid (or not) compared to their own research.  Each professor definitely wanted his or her project to be "right" and refused to accept any other explanations.  Oh, and my PI also once threw a manuscript hardcopy at his research manager (who had a PhD) when they had a disagreement about how something should be presented and yelled, "I'm the scientist, you're not, and I'm going to write the paper!  So don't you tell me how to write a paper!"

Needless to say, I would NOT work for someone like that.  He is very famous and busy and also a bit arrogant.

Lol you're PI just sounds like an ass. My Harvard experience was much different. Though my PI was also very famous, he was very engaging with the graduate students and a very humble person. Not only this, but he also had a sense of humor! He is probably my favorite PI thus far. Also, Stanford is already a very competitive school, so I don't know if the environments would actually be THAT different. 

[biochemgirl67]

3 minutes ago, Bioenchilada said:

Lol you're PI just sounds like an ass. My Harvard experience was much different. Though my PI was also very famous, he was very engaging with the graduate students and a very humble person. Not only this, but he also had a sense of humor! He is probably my favorite PI thus far. Also, Stanford is already a very competitive school, so I don't know if the environments would actually be THAT different. 

He totally was.  But I just want to put it out there because the lab meeting between all the labs with like 5 PIs ended in a screaming match between the PIs.  It was my first day, which was horrible.  Also, it is a fact that anyone who is a tenure track faculty at Harvard has to be famous because they have such a fast turnover for laboratory heads there.  It's just worth thinking about.  Like I said, I would totally go back for a post-doc.  However, I realize now that it was probably better for me personally to go to a different type of environment in the learning stage that is the PhD.  It's a really awesome environment overall but if someone would choose to go there, they should REALLLLY listen to current graduate students in a particular lab.  It'll help filter out jerk PIs.  (Just a note, my summer PI does not accept grad students so don't worry.  I think he really knew his limitations time-wise at least.)

[Bioenchilada]

Lol just saw a trigger typo on my post, but can't edit it now. Oh wellll

[jaesango]

5 hours ago, biochemgirl67 said:

He totally was.  But I just want to put it out there because the lab meeting between all the labs with like 5 PIs ended in a screaming match between the PIs.  It was my first day, which was horrible.  Also, it is a fact that anyone who is a tenure track faculty at Harvard has to be famous because they have such a fast turnover for laboratory heads there.  It's just worth thinking about.  Like I said, I would totally go back for a post-doc.  However, I realize now that it was probably better for me personally to go to a different type of environment in the learning stage that is the PhD.  It's a really awesome environment overall but if someone would choose to go there, they should REALLLLY listen to current graduate students in a particular lab.  It'll help filter out jerk PIs.  (Just a note, my summer PI does not accept grad students so don't worry.  I think he really knew his limitations time-wise at least.)

I can definitely attest to this. The graduate students in my department at Dana Farber were also really spread on their opinions about the program and how they were doing in their own labs. Harvard is for a certain type of student with a certain level of intellectual/workplace maturity, and yes, sometimes tensions can run high between labs and even within labs-- everyone is (and should be) really proud of the work they do.