Rhetoric & Composition Folks...Can I get your advice?

[readwriterun]

Hi y'all! I was wondering who here is pursuing a PhD in rhetoric and composition. It seems like most of the lovely people here are in literature. How do you decide on programs? Does ranking influence your decision the way it does those of you studying literature? What specific factors did you look for when you chose a program?  

For context: I'm an r/c applicant currently accepted to four programs, waitlisted at two, and waiting to hear back from two more. I'm trying to decide which factors should matter most in the decision-making process. Obviously fit and funding are huge, but what else should I be considering? All of my programs are relatively well-known in the field, but I don't know how to evaluate which ones are stronger. Placement seems relatively uniform from program to program with around 80-90% students graduating with full-time tenure-track jobs. One of my wait-listed schools is the only obviously more highly ranked program, but I have no idea how to gauge the others. Each one has scholars that I would like to work with, alumni who have landed cool jobs and are publishing interesting things, and relatively low costs of living. I've been offered a pretty sweet fellowship at one program that would give me two years of support without teaching and two years with teaching, so I'm leaning there; but I don't know if it'd be better to hold out for an ostensibly higher-ranked school. 

 

Any insight would be appreciated! 

[LynnC]

Hi there!

Fellow rhet/comp person here. I have had a similar concerns. I was accepted to two programs, with one slightly edging out the other in regards to rank/ placement. However, the one with the slightly lower placement/ranking felt like a better fit and offered me a lot more funding. My advisers/ past professors all told me to go for the fit/ funding. They indicated that the confidence/ comfort that funding allows would help me both professionally and personally, especially since the difference between the rank of the universities was relatively small. 

Hope this was somewhat helpful!

[Still_I_Rise]

Hello! I think fit and funding are certainly important, but being some place you don't fit in ( at least to me) is not a solvable problem. Now I'm not saying go for a place who didn't offer funding---just pick a place where you really can thrive. 

Would you mind posting here when you do choose? I picked the CCR program at Syracuse 

Good luck to you! 

[drezzel]

Hi there! I'm a recent CompRhet MA alum who's reapplying to PhD programs next year because my research interests shifted. I've been lurking on these boards for a while but haven't said anything.

 

CompRhet is lucky to still have a lot of jobs (though fewer than we did a few years ago), so ranking isn't quite as much of an issue. In fact, since a lot of ranking systems don't separate CompRhet from literature programs, I'd say ignore listed ranks altogether. There's a lot of programs that are completely separate from English departments, like Syracuse's CCR, and others that are within English departments but run 100% separately. An amazing CompRhet program could be in an average English department, that is. 

If prestige does matter, I'd suggest asking your faculty for advice. There's some programs that seem to be near the top, based on faculty/placement/history, like Wisconsin-Madison, UIUC,  OSU, Umass, Penn State, etc. But even lesser known programs are churning out top scholars who can compete for good jobs.

 

I'd suggest going for fit and funding. 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by drezzel

[DKScully]

9 hours ago, drezzel said:

CompRhet is lucky to still have a lot of jobs (though fewer than we did a few years ago), so ranking isn't quite as much of an issue. In fact, since a lot of ranking systems don't separate CompRhet from literature programs, I'd say ignore listed ranks altogether. There's a lot of programs that are completely separate from English departments, like Syracuse's CCR, and others that are within English departments but run 100% separately. An amazing CompRhet program could be in an average English department, that is. 

As someone who recently survived the job market, I'd second the sentiment that ranking plays less of a roll in job placement and also that the R/C job market is tightening. As such, I'm going to offer the pragmatic things to look for that will help you succeed x many years down the line. Areas that are currently most in demand on the market are technical/professional communication, digital rhetoric, and multilingual support. Obviously, demand shifts but I don't see any of there three areas falling out of favor any time soon. If one or more of these areas interest you, prioritize programs that have opportunities to get coursework and/or teaching experience (or even a concentration) in them. Also consider whether there are opportunities for administrative experience and how competitive they will be.

Other considerations:

- How many R/C courses are offered a semester? Many R/C faculty are in administrative positions that keep them from teaching much and they are often a smaller cohort within the department, so some programs might be limited in course offerings. Take a close look at the class schedules from the last few years.

- Do faculty seem to be publishing with their graduate students? If you can look at profiles of current students, see if there is a trend towards publication with advisers. My sense is that some schools have more of a culture for this than others and it will make a very big difference in your professionalization and preparation for the market. Also, of course, see if graduate students are publishing on their own, as an indication of how well they're being professionalized.

- Will you get a variety of teaching/administrative experience? Prioritize programs that will have opportunities to teach beyond first year composition, ideally (again) in a technical communication/digital rhetoric/or multilingual context. Bonus points for programs that will provide an opportunity to teach upper level courses in your areas of interest by the end of the program or that will give you teaching releases for administrative positions in FYC, the writing center, the WAC program, etc.

[LynnC]

23 hours ago, DKScully said:

Other considerations:

- How many R/C courses are offered a semester? Many R/C faculty are in administrative positions that keep them from teaching much and they are often a smaller cohort within the department, so some programs might be limited in course offerings. Take a close look at the class schedules from the last few years.

- Do faculty seem to be publishing with their graduate students? If you can look at profiles of current students, see if there is a trend towards publication with advisers. My sense is that some schools have more of a culture for this than others and it will make a very big difference in your professionalization and preparation for the market. Also, of course, see if graduate students are publishing on their own, as an indication of how well they're being professionalized.

- Will you get a variety of teaching/administrative experience? Prioritize programs that will have opportunities to teach beyond first year composition, ideally (again) in a technical communication/digital rhetoric/or multilingual context. Bonus points for programs that will provide an opportunity to teach upper level courses in your areas of interest by the end of the program or that will give you teaching releases for administrative positions in FYC, the writing center, the WAC program, etc.

This comment was quite helpful! It is always good to hear straight from those experiencing the job search. I'm very interested in Writing Program Admin experience, and that is something that all my final picks have in common, so it is encouraging to read what you wrote. Thanks for sharing! 

[readwriterun]

Thanks y'all! This was very helpful:) 

[what-the-what]

On 3/3/2017 at 9:05 AM, DKScully said:

As someone who recently survived the job market, I'd second the sentiment that ranking plays less of a roll in job placement and also that the R/C job market is tightening. As such, I'm going to offer the pragmatic things to look for that will help you succeed x many years down the line. Areas that are currently most in demand on the market are technical/professional communication, digital rhetoric, and multilingual support. Obviously, demand shifts but I don't see any of there three areas falling out of favor any time soon. If one or more of these areas interest you, prioritize programs that have opportunities to get coursework and/or teaching experience (or even a concentration) in them. Also consider whether there are opportunities for administrative experience and how competitive they will be.

Other considerations:

- How many R/C courses are offered a semester? Many R/C faculty are in administrative positions that keep them from teaching much and they are often a smaller cohort within the department, so some programs might be limited in course offerings. Take a close look at the class schedules from the last few years.

- Do faculty seem to be publishing with their graduate students? If you can look at profiles of current students, see if there is a trend towards publication with advisers. My sense is that some schools have more of a culture for this than others and it will make a very big difference in your professionalization and preparation for the market. Also, of course, see if graduate students are publishing on their own, as an indication of how well they're being professionalized.

- Will you get a variety of teaching/administrative experience? Prioritize programs that will have opportunities to teach beyond first year composition, ideally (again) in a technical communication/digital rhetoric/or multilingual context. Bonus points for programs that will provide an opportunity to teach upper level courses in your areas of interest by the end of the program or that will give you teaching releases for administrative positions in FYC, the writing center, the WAC program, etc.

Thank you so much for this - it was extremely helpful. I'm currently trying to choose between two programs I've been admitted to, both which are strong rhet/comp, but one which has tech comm as part of it and the other which has more digital media stuff. I pored through the job postings on MLA this year and it seemed like tech comm was the strong extra area to have in terms of # of posted jobs, but digital media might fit my interests very slightly better. Both offer plenty of courses for me to take, and plenty of teaching experience with a way to get at least 2-3 different courses under my belt before going on the job market (though one has opportunity to teach tech comm and the other does not). 

The thing you said that's interesting is about publishing. I've gotten different stories from different people about what the "norm" is in rhet/comp (I'm coming in from a related but different background so am unfamiliar with the standards). One program seems to take the stance that it's up to the student to carve out their own path and most publishing is solo, not collaborative, so faculty across the department tend not to publish with students, and students graduate with 1-2 solo publications. The other seems to have a much more collaborative, multi-author culture where faculty are publishing with students more often, but I don't have any info yet about what their typical grad has on their CV in terms of # of pubs. I am now wondering what the "norm" really is, and if the "solo" perspective is old-fashioned or out-of-date?

[DKScully]

2 hours ago, what-the-what said:

I am now wondering what the "norm" really is, and if the "solo" perspective is old-fashioned or out-of-date?

This is a great question and unfortunately, one that's really hard to answer. In my view, I do see the solo perspective as old-fashioned and a detriment to our field, which like the social sciences benefits from the larger scope of projects that can really only be undertaken by a team. However, that doesn't make this view any less important, especially when we're still participating in English departments where the norm is solo publication. I think choosing between a program that values the solo model but is clearly supporting students in getting their work published and one that values collaborative publication with faculty is a tough choice. On the market, all other things being equal, the solo publication will clearly have more weight. The problem is that oftentimes all other things aren't equal. I saw a lot of graduate students in my program squander work on mediocre publications early on, that if they'd given themselves a couple of years to develop as scholars could have packed a lot more punch in a top journal. So its not just about whether students are publishing but where. The co-authored pub with a faculty member in a top journal is going to help a student much more both in terms of professionalization and on the job market than the mediocre pub in a journal that doesn't have a very rigorous review process.

Just to offer my own experience, in case its helpful. I came from an old-fashioned graduate program in an English department where faculty didn't publish with grad students. I was pro-active in the last years of my program in getting faculty support to publish and had one solo pub in a top-tier journal when I went on the market. At least for now, this seemed like the threshold for me to at least be considered for research-intensive positions, one of which I landed, but I have no doubt it wasn't enough to get me an interview at a lot of R1's. In my current Rhet/Comp job in an English department, collaboratively authored articles are given the same weight as single authored pubs for tenure. This is apparently something the Rhet/Comp faculty have had to fight to maintain, however, and was not a given. This is why I started by saying old-fashioned or not, we can't ignore the valuing of solo pubs, because it may have a roll not just as you're applying for jobs, but also in the way your work is counted once you move into a position.

[what-the-what]

2 hours ago, DKScully said:

This is a great question and unfortunately, one that's really hard to answer. In my view, I do see the solo perspective as old-fashioned and a detriment to our field, which like the social sciences benefits from the larger scope of projects that can really only be undertaken by a team. However, that doesn't make this view any less important, especially when we're still participating in English departments where the norm is solo publication. I think choosing between a program that values the solo model but is clearly supporting students in getting their work published and one that values collaborative publication with faculty is a tough choice. On the market, all other things being equal, the solo publication will clearly have more weight. The problem is that oftentimes all other things aren't equal. I saw a lot of graduate students in my program squander work on mediocre publications early on, that if they'd given themselves a couple of years to develop as scholars could have packed a lot more punch in a top journal. So its not just about whether students are publishing but where. The co-authored pub with a faculty member in a top journal is going to help a student much more both in terms of professionalization and on the job market than the mediocre pub in a journal that doesn't have a very rigorous review process.

Just to offer my own experience, in case its helpful. I came from an old-fashioned graduate program in an English department where faculty didn't publish with grad students. I was pro-active in the last years of my program in getting faculty support to publish and had one solo pub in a top-tier journal when I went on the market. At least for now, this seemed like the threshold for me to at least be considered for research-intensive positions, one of which I landed, but I have no doubt it wasn't enough to get me an interview at a lot of R1's. In my current Rhet/Comp job in an English department, collaboratively authored articles are given the same weight as single authored pubs for tenure. This is apparently something the Rhet/Comp faculty have had to fight to maintain, however, and was not a given. This is why I started by saying old-fashioned or not, we can't ignore the valuing of solo pubs, because it may have a roll not just as you're applying for jobs, but also in the way your work is counted once you move into a position.

You are a rock star and my hero today!

This is very, very helpful. I know that both schools do very well with placement (almost 100%, and almost entirely in academic positions, many TT right off the bat), but need to get more data about the collaborative school's actual placements (where, what kinds of departments). I know I would prefer to end up at a SLAC or smaller state school (not an R1), but I want to be competitive and I know the academic job market just gets harder and harder every year.