Next steps: MA in Politics, MPP - Any thoughts?

[Mike_Novick]

Hello, everyone. I really would like to hear some thoughts from you regarding how could I make my application stronger for next cycle (I was rejected by 14 programs this year - I'm still waiting the formal rejection from Oxford's DPIR). I had the opportunity of talking to some professors in order to understand what factors may have hindered my chances of admission, and the following elements were presented:

1) Lack of a US/UK Degree (It seems to be very hard to be admitted in a Top-20 program having only Latin American academic credentials - I've surveyed some Departments and found only 4 current graduate students among 50+ that had  previously studied exclusively in their countries of origin - Brazil, Argentina, Chile or Colombia);

2) Age (I'll be 32 in a few months and it appears that these universities prefer recently undergraduated students, as they are much more "malleable" to become leading scholars, academically wise);

3) Lack of institutional ties with research bodies/departments (my 6+ years of experience working as a civil servant seems to be irrelevant to Admission Committees - and it looks like independent researches are disconsidered as well);

4) Excessively qualitative approach both in my SoP and in my writing sample (I was awarded a national prize for a policy formulation framework I designed and I though it was a good idea to present it in my application).

It seems that, in order to become a viable candidate for admission next cycle, I need to considerably reframe my profile - I thought I had a good background, but at least to Political Science Departments it looks like the other way around. Some colleagues have suggested I should change to Public Policy (I've applied last week to the DPhil Program at Oxford), but I'm not sure this is a good strategy. Perhaps it is, considering the professional trajectory I've followed over the last years ...

Some folks recommended that a good strategy would be to apply to a MA; others, to a MPP. A third possibility would be apply to lower ranked universities. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd have the stamina to pursue another Masters or the will to study in schools that are just as good as the best universities in my country. And quite frankly, I do feel prepared to perform advanced research - my inquiry interests are quite clear at this moment. However, I'm feeling "deadlocked" in some sense right now. I wonder if you could suggest a few good MA programs (or MPP) I could consider applying next cycle. Any other insights are very welcomed as well. Thanks in advance.

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Mike_Novick

[TheWalkingGrad]

Hello fellow Brazilian!

I was in a similar situation last year: I got rejected by the 9 programs I applied to. This cycle I changed a few things and got 5 offers so far. I'll try to address each of your points:

1) I agree it's harder to get in a US program with a Latin American degree, but it's definitely not impossible. I did my undergrad and Masters in Brazil and I don't think this was the issue last year.

2) I've seen people in their 30s in the visiting days I attended, so I don't think that's a decisive factor.

3) I don't think most programs expect you to have ties with research centers, but they do expect you to have research experience. I don't know where you work(ed), but if it was with policy formulation or something like that, you can frame it this way maybe.

4) This is something that I've encountered as well. I think apart from USP (not my alma mater), most universities here in Brazil focus way more on qualitative than quantitative. In my SoP I briefly described my research subject but didn't go into detail about methodology. Maybe try to emphasize you are interested in methodology training (or even try to take a few online classes before next cycle).

What subfield are you applying? I agree with the people telling you to go for Public Policy given your career as a public servant, and there are some programs that have a more interdisciplinary approach and you can do pretty much anything inside the subfield.

[Mike_Novick]

35 minutes ago, TheWalkingGrad said:

Hello fellow Brazilian!

I was in a similar situation last year: I got rejected by the 9 programs I applied to. This cycle I changed a few things and got 5 offers so far. I'll try to address each of your points:

1) I agree it's harder to get in a US program with a Latin American degree, but it's definitely not impossible. I did my undergrad and Masters in Brazil and I don't think this was the issue last year.

2) I've seen people in their 30s in the visiting days I attended, so I don't think that's a decisive factor.

3) I don't think most programs expect you to have ties with research centers, but they do expect you to have research experience. I don't know where you work(ed), but if it was with policy formulation or something like that, you can frame it this way maybe.

4) This is something that I've encountered as well. I think apart from USP (not my alma mater), most universities here in Brazil focus way more on qualitative than quantitative. In my SoP I briefly described my research subject but didn't go into detail about methodology. Maybe try to emphasize you are interested in methodology training (or even try to take a few online classes before next cycle).

What subfield are you applying? I agree with the people telling you to go for Public Policy given your career as a public servant, and there are some programs that have a more interdisciplinary approach and you can do pretty much anything inside the subfield.

Hello, @TheWalkingGrad! Thanks for your inputs and congratulations for your admissions - it's inspiring to know you were able to perform such an improvement in just one cycle. So, have you decided where will you study?

I do have research experience (I have published books, book chapters, articles in journals and I presented a number of papers presented at public management conferences - all of them based in qualitative methods), but somehow no one was impressed with that - I think someone being productive while remaining away from academia (as I did) seems weird to AdComms. Also, the training in methods I received both in my undergraduate and during my masters was very lacking, unfortunately. I think it would be great if I complete methods classes before submitting applications again.

My relationship with Public Policy is ambiguous in the sense that I'm very connected to the field but I'm interested studying in a more abstract discipline - I sense that current trends in this field are directed at comprehending levels of efficacy of a given policy, and I'm more concerned with the underlying causes of public issues (despite having this normative bent, I'm applying in comparative, focused in Brazil). I see myself advising authorities on policy decisions, but I look forward to develop a career in academia - I'm not sure if a PhD in Public Policy would provide me with the needed "legitimacy" to do that as a PhD in Political Science would. On the other hand, it seems that a transition to PolSci is much harder than I predicted, so I'm in the middle of the crossroads right now.

I'm also thinking about approaching POIs and discussing my interests - I intentionally avoided that during this cycle and, considering how away from academia I am (I've completed my MA in 2011), that may have been an inadequate strategy as well.

Thanks again e boa sorte!

 

 

[VMcJ]

Another Brazilian here, and my results are almost identical to @TheWalkingGrad's: eight rejections last cycle, five offers this time around. I'll try to answer point by point, but keep in mind I mostly agree with TheWalkingGrad's assessment and I'm trying to add to what s/he said.

1) It is more difficult, certainly, but not impossible. I studied at USP, but my undergrad was Language Studies and my Master's was Literary Theory, so it was a little more difficult than if I had a social sciences profile. My undergrad GPA was not stellar also. Strong letters of recommendation and focusing on my little, although significant, research experience in the field were vital to overcome this. Two of my recommenders studied in the US, and it certainly helped.

2) Age may be a problem, but you need to frame it as a bonus. For example, you're not likely to take a long time graduating and you are certainly more responsible than the average undergrad.

3) Again, you need to frame your experience as a bonus as well. If it involved research in any way, present it in that light. You need to make the admissions committee sure that you're going to enter the program knowing what is expected from PoliSci research and how to get there.

4) My first approach was in Political Theory and it wasn't a very good one. No wonder I got rejections. Additionally, it is difficult as hell to place theorists. To present your qualitative work is fine, but you need to show you're ready to take all quants and to eventually conduct quantitative research when/if needed. One way to do it is by having a strong GRE Q, another is to have quantitative research experience. I did both and it paid off well (at least two of my offers are from schools that relied on my potential quant skills when selecting me).

I don't know about a MA or a MPP; it could be a good strategy for your career. I did not consider it, but I realize some people may get more from it than me. You should definitely consider, provided there's funding for it.

On applying only to the tops: it was my thought as well the first time, and I tried some this cycle as well, without success. But I genuinely think the majority of Top 50 schools have more to offer in almost every way than the best in Brazil. And I heard similar thoughts from faculty on several of those best Brazilian programs. To be fair, I wouldn't trade any of my offers with USP (although, full disclosure, I failed to get into USP last year as well. Yeah, 2016 was not a good year for me). It is a very good program, but the center of PoliSci is the United States and the training (especially quantitative) is without comparison. So I think you should reconsider some schools between Top11 and Top50, especially if they have a history in selecting Brazilians and Latin Americans (something all my five offers have in common and most of my other tries have as well).

[guest56436]

How exactly did you frame your experience in your SOP and/or CV? What was your writing sample? 

Some people make a crucial mistake when applying to doctoral programs in academic fields: these are academic programs and adcomms only really care about your academic potential and experience. 

Someone who has 5+ years of policy experience and government positions is not necessarily a better candidate than a straight-from-undergrad student who has worked for three months as a RA. 

Some people choose to blend in how their work experience impacted their perspective on politics or something briefly along those lines...however, every single thing in your profile should be pointing towards your academic experience and potential because at the end of the day that's all that matters for a Ph.D. in political science.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Comparativist

[Mike_Novick]

Thanks, @VMcJ and @Comparativist for your insights.

In my SoP, I've tried my best to show how my professional experience was an asset regarding my academic interests. To cut short, I work at an anticorruption agency and I've proposed to study corruption (I've framed the reasoning and the scope for that in detail there). I've also attempted to show that my prior independent researches - mostly on transparency and Open Government - were related to the inquiry presented. In my CV, I've detailed my trajectory and also emphasized other relevant experiences (I've promoted workshops on access to information policies and on strategy planning, I'm currently an editor of a academic journal, I have a background as an advocate for transparency, etc). My LoRs were, in my opinion, very strong - but all four came from Brazilians. My writing sample was a simplified version of an essay in which I presented a policy formulation framework based in Open Government, as a response to growing social demands in Brazil for accountability - I won a national prize conceded by the federal government for it a few years ago. In summary, I thought I had a competitive application - I knew it was going to be a very difficult process, but I expected to be admitted or waitlisted in at least one program.

It is a good idea to check for programs that are more open to Brazilians. I have to say, however, that I'll probably have to "start all over again" in order to increase my chances anywhere, as the reasons for failing this cycle are not entirely clear - the hypotheses I presented in the opening post seem(ed) to be reasonable considering that my application wasn't a complete mess.

[Bibica]

Hey @Mike_Novick, sorry to hear you didn't get into the schools you wanted this time around. Also, greetings from a fellow Brazilian (admittedly with dual citizenship, so our experiences don't overlap as much as our research interests).

Is there any possibility of you taking classes in/doing work through a Brazilian research institution? I'm thinking FGV or something similar; there are many Brazilians there that are well-known in American academic circles, which otherwise tend to be insular and hard to penetrate (imho). For example, Cesar Zucco is there, and Lucio Renno is at UnB (don't know where you're at). Maybe connecting with academics who float between Brazilian and American institutions will help. Collaborating on something with one of them (or someone similar) would be a huge help.

I don't know how your GRE went--would that be something you could improve upon? I know the Brazilian grading system does not translate well into GPA, so perhaps a weakness in these hard numbers affected you as well? You might also benefit from looking at institutions that emphasize methodological pluralism or even which explicitly favor qualitative methods, since that is where the bulk of your experiences lie.

If you decide to get an MA in the US/UK, that would help, but also come with a pretty hefty price tag. Policy programs might be good since they weigh your work experience more, I think. Honestly, so much of academia is networking, that unfortunately international students are placed at a disadvantage from the get-go.

[Mike_Novick]

Hello, @Bibica, thank you for providing me with your insights. I forgot you were also Brazilian! Congratulations for achieving such excellent results this cycle! Amazing! It must've been very hard to choose what to do, right?

I live in Brasília, so I really thought about taking methods classes at UnB - the point is that only current graduate students are able to attend them (I was not authorized to enroll in these obligatory courses, according to Department's internal rules), so it has discouraged me a bit. But in fact I really should keep looking for similar opportunities, perhaps through online courses.

I've completed my undergraduate studies at USP (International Relations) and my MA at FGV, in São Paulo. A senior professor from PolSci Department (USP) has been really helpful so far, specially considering that she taught me more than 10 years ago. As you've mentioned, networking seems to play a pivotal role (neglected by me) - I think I'll attend conferences in the short term in order to introduce myself to POIs.

With regards to the GRE, I've scored a 324 (163V, 161Q, 4.5AWA) - no one told me so far that it may have constituted a weakness, but I think I could improve it (I have no formal training in English and I took a 40-day leave last October to focus on TOEFL - scored 112 - and on this exam). My undergraduate GPA is low (3.21), but I thought that by stressing my performance considering the last 60 credits (3.65), my MA GPA (4.00) and the fact that my dissertation was awarded with distinction I could then compensate for this potential flaw. Perhaps it didn't work, I don't know ...

Do you recommend any specific program with those methodological aspects you've cited? A US professor suggested me to consider again Berkeley and Brown.

Thanks and best of luck with your decisions!

[Bibica]

@Mike_Novick thanks! I'm not decided yet, but I'm really grateful.

It sounds like your scores are fine, and networking may be the answer, as well as reworking your SOP and everything suggested above. Let me know if you ever need any help with that!

There are scholars doing qualitative work at Princeton, Yale, and Notre Dame that I know of. Others probably, I lean more toward quantitative work so I don't know. 

[cydxb]

Just my two cents, I was in a similar position a few years ago when considering changing careers (I didn't expect that it would push me down the PhD route). 

One of the advantages and disadvantages about applying as an older applicant is that you probably have a more narrowly focussed research question, as in it's not a broad generic area in which you are interested, which makes fit even more important. (That's my experience at least, my areas of interest are the result of 10+ years of professional and personal experience and they are what are driving me to do a PhD that focuses in a very specific issue.) 

(On the other hand, it took a master's in the US for me to appreciate I probably needed to do a PhD to answer these questions! And I'm not sure I would have gotten into a PhD program without the master's as I'd been out of the education system for a long time. While this doesn't appear to be the case for you, doing the master's likely made me a stronger candidate as I came away with an understanding of the US graduate school system and LoRs from US based professors who also understand what needs to go into the letters and could give me pointers on my SoP.)

Feel free to PM me if you want anymore info. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by cydxb
Typo (caught one at least!)