Computational to synthesis in grad school

[sk8er determinant]

Hey everyone! This is generally aimed for graduate students but open to all the prospective Ph.D students out there too.

My research experience in chemistry has been using computational methods to study organic chemistry. I've done some cool theoretical stuff (such as thermally activated quantum mechanical tunneling in reactions, and isolobal analogy) and some stuff that's in conjunction to experimental studies (two separate projects on benzazepines and nitrosamines that we are collaborating with two groups). Now, I'm set on doing synthetic work during graduate school, and of course I'll use computational methods to corroborate experimental results. But I'm concerned that this will be seen as a red flag to admission committee or to professors because I've expressed in my SOPs that I'm interested in doing synthetic work (I've expanded more on my computational background and my experience in doing computational work for experimental groups). Do you know anyone or even from your experience who has made a switch from computational to synthesis? And if so, was it a huge challenge? Any advices even?

Thanks in advance for helpful comments and discussion! 

[amino1990]

You have an interesting idea. I also apply for grad school this time, and I want to switch from organic synthesis to theoretical organic chemistry. You stated that you want to do organic synthesis and explain experimental results by computational methods, but have you found any group which does both the synthetic work and computational work? I think that organic synthesis is very time-consuming, and I am not sure if one person could do both at the same time. If you could match your interest with your POI, I think you will be fine.

[sk8er determinant]

@amino1990 thanks for the input! Just wondering, who are you interested in working with? I'm guessing Ken Houk and Dean Tantillo are few of them?

[amino1990]

That's right, UC Davis is my dream school. However, I didn't have enough time to prepare for the chem GRE test, and my speaking score is mediocre, so I didn't apply for UCLA. I could only find few people using computational methods to study organic reactions mechanism. Besides Dean Tantillo, I also want to work with Alabugin (FSU), Weist (Notre Dame), and Paul Ha-Yeon Cheong (OSU). I already got an offer from FSU, but I still hope to be accepted to UC Davis. Given the fact that all graduate students in Tantillo's lab have been always domestic, my hope is really low.

Edited December 29, 2016 by amino1990

[sk8er determinant]

@amino1990 I'm very familiar with Alabugin's work! I was studying enediyne and he did some computational and experimental work on the species so I read lot of papers from him. What about McMahon at Madison? I believe he does physical organic chemistry as well (whose work I'm also very familiar with since I read a lot of his papers for one of my projects I worked on.) I didn't know Tantillo only takes domestic students--which is bit odd--but I'm crossing my fingers that you get into UC Davis! Working with Tantillo would be major. 

[amino1990]

Thanks, I hope you could explore your interest at your dream school, too. I read some papers of McMahon's group before, but it's really hard to make a logical connection between his interest and my prior work, at least in my sop (how can my work on drugs synthesis and development of synthetic methodology urge me to study reactive intermediates and unusual molecules?). Of course, Tantillo's lab would be an ideal place for me, since he applies computational methods to tackle various problems in organic chemistry. However, when I looked at the list of his graduate students and alumni, I couldn't find any M.S. and PhD student finishing their undergraduate study outside US, so I'm a bit worried about my chance.

[St Andrews Lynx]

Although I don't think it should be too difficult to get accepted in to a grad program with that kind of background I think it can be quite hard to go to organic synthesis from computational. A lot of people who apply to do organic synthesis at grad school (and who will be your peers) have several years of research experience already from undergrad. Learning synthetic techniques takes time (it took several years for me to become consistently good at running column chromatography, for example), and some people are never going to be good at it! I've seen a few cases of people trying to move in to organic synthesis from other fields - they've been quite frustrated and sometimes have fallen behind their lab mates when it comes to research progress. 

The sooner you can try out organic synthesis the better (is there any way you can try an organic project at your current university?). Make sure there are several POIs you could see yourself working for at the school you choose, ideally with a mix of synthesis/computational research.

[sk8er determinant]

@St Andrews Lynx that's what I'm worried about too. I fear that the admission committee and POI—rightfully so—may doubt my potential to carry out synthetic research at the caliber that they are expecting. My PI and another professor who read my SOP both stressed that I have to some how sell my computational experience to the synthetic chemists, so I wrote about how I have a lot of experience performing calculations for experimental groups (one of which got published on JOC this year.) and that I am very interested in learning synthetic methods as well. I've also combed through the papers that professors published, and I specifically chose POIs who had used both synthesis and computational methods. If possible and if I do get accepted, I'm going to inquire if I can start my work in summer to get as much time as I can learning synthetic methods. At my institution, there is only one professor who is doing organic synthesis, and his lab is full

[thescientist]

Hi, 

There's a guy in my group who did just that and has been incredibly successful. He knew nothing about synthesis when he started in our (hardcore synthetic) lab, but then do most first year grads really know that much about synthesis? He works on both computational and synthetic. He started off making lots of mistakes in lab but it was clear he was very talented, and every first year makes mistakes, so there were no issues. I don't think I could have done what he did, but he's an incredibly chill guy so he (at least outwardly) didn't worry and has gone on to be one of our best students. It worked for him because the boss wanted a computational project to supplement our skills. 

I certainly recommend starting work there in summer. Make sure there are multiple potential advisors you could work for - this is always the advice but particularly for you to maximize your chances. Feel free to PM me for details on the situation above. 

[someth1ngAus]

On 12/29/2016 at 3:53 PM, sk8er determinant said:

@amino1990 thanks for the input! Just wondering, who are you interested in working with? I'm guessing Ken Houk and Dean Tantillo are few of them?

Jacobsen could be another but he definitely focuses much more on the organic/synthesis side.

Edited January 2, 2017 by someth1ngAus