superhamdi

Bleh. I still haven't gotten anything from them... jeez! Get over with it already! Got my CUNY rejection the other day. It didn't mention the name of the institution anywhere. Only after re-reading it did I see it said "The Graduate Center" somewhere in the middle of the paragraph. That's basically it for me. Saw someone posted a super late UCLA admittance, congrats!

I applied to UMass and CUNY too. I've only got *official* rejections from about a third of the schools to which I applied, but they've all made offers already so I crossed them off the list. UCSB is the only one that hasn't really said.... anything.

contradiction, are you waiting on any schools besides UCSB still?

Congrats!!! I'm sort of questioning this too. Considering that some schools haven't notified admits until this week, it seems like a very short time frame to get it all in! For me, my father is going on a business trip (paid) to an area where I applied to a lot of schools, so I made plans to tag along and do it at that time. Thing is, I have the trip booked and I haven't been accepted to any schools in that area. To boot, I have been accepted to schools in other parts of the country, which I won't have time to visit now! Yes, I've seen quite a few depts mention on their website that they are admitting fewer than usual this year. Congratulations on the acceptance BTW! I'm rooting for you!

Yes, I wish I would have applied to FEWER schools actually. I just freaked out and applied to A LOT. But I should have focused on schools that 1) I would actually want to go to if accepted and 2) only schools that fit my AOI. If I had been accepted at a school which didn't really fit my AOIs and nowhere else, it would be a really tricky situation. You're a hero to us all!

Seconded. Contradiction, I lost track actually, has UCSB sent out any rejections so far? Or just admits?

napoleon-- you should skim through the last 10 pages of the survey, you'll see even top schools with acceptances running the gamut as far as stats and a number of perfect scores being rejected. That should give you a good idea. EDIT: case en point: Cornell has 1 admit with a 3.5ish GPA (no MA listed). Was anybody rejected from Colorado-Boulder PhD but accepted to MA? Do you think you will attend? There's no funding for MA plus they charge out of state for first year, and I don't see MA placement on their page.

Yes. Most PhD apps were due in Jan if not December. Some MA programs are still taking admissions or have rolling deadlines. Everyone here is discussing/posting admissions decisions as they are doled out. Contradiction: UCSB wtf?! That's bananas. I am waiting on a few of the same schools as you, and my list is dwindling as well. About Loyola, I spoke too soon before. My rejection letter was in the mail as I was complaining about not getting anything hahahah. kelizabeth as you have noted, stats don't count for everything in this game. Pedigree, WS and LoR and so many random factors can sink your application if it is otherwise desirable, and float it if not. My impression is that sometimes pedigree is scrutinized even more for those who have an MA under their belt. I seriously had a professor tell me straight up that a recommendation from a very well-established Prof in another specialty (of philosophy) could lower my chances at some schools, simply because the adcom doesn't like him, despite the letter being laudatory and my having others from established profs within my specialty. Plus, I'm guessing you're a female, which unfortunately can also have an adverse affect (granted it may not necessarily be a conscious decision). Which is why I think applications should be assigned #'s and names should be excluded while being evaluated. That said, I hope (and think) you will get into a program of your choosing! There's still over a month left before postseason starts!

Lesage, thank you for emphasizing fit because I think a lot of applicants (myself included) have overlooked fit in some of our applications in the interest of just getting accepted but ultimately will end up worse off for it. Myself, the MA program, which is a "tier 1" has a lot of faculty in my AOI, but the PhD program is also a great fit for me, which is why I suspect I was admitted in their first round. Also, has anybody had any experience transferring from either an MA to another or a PhD to another? I'm not considering that but I read an interesting post about it on Splintered Mind and was wondering if anyone had firsthand experience.

I am inferring a rejection, but I think they've only just made their offers, not sent out rejections yet. Nothing from UCSB. Or WashU. I'm pretty sure both schools have already sent out acceptances, waitlists, and rejects. Also, Napoleon, as many mentioned above, there are SO many factors that go into evaluating an applicant. As someone mentioned already, there are people getting rejected from top programs with 4.0 GPA and perfect or near perfect GRE scores (MIT and Pitt I believe). At the same time, there are people with 3.5s getting into Berkeley and the like. LoRs, WS, (and pedigree, I suspect) are worth a lot.

First, I didn't mean to make this thread all about my questions, so if anybody else has some, please chime in! Whoops, meant to add that BOTH programs have a number of faculty in my AOIs, I wouldn't consider going anywhere that didn't. That coupled with the fact that both are funded is really getting me twisted. The placement data of the MA is really convincing. The data I gave is just for the past 3 years, but previous years have been consistent. Virtually every graduate who applies, places. But the grad students I know personally have said just about the same thing as most people on here, 75% say to take the bird in hand. No substitute for certainty, as someone mentioned (although this seems really close!). Lot to think about, but thanks for your opinions! Could any current grad students elaborate on the teaching responsibilities of their program? I want to get a sense of what is to be expected.

It's such a crapshoot. Seems like many people are getting multiple offers vs similar candidates with none.

Really sad about USC, that was one of my top choices, esp because of fit. I'm confused by some of the stuff going on. People are posting rejections to a number schools that I haven't heard from at all!

Thank you guys so much for the input! I like hearing everyone's personal experiences. It gives me a lot to think about. On job placement: Here is the roster of faculty degrees at CSULA, which is a well known MA only program (not the one in question btw). On the whole, it is representative of most comparable departments. UCLA, Wisconsin, CUNY, Harvard, McGill, Chapel Hill, Boston, Stony Brook, Berkeley. I would go to school at an unranked, underground school as long as the job placement was good. Unfortunately, PGR numbers do largely correspond with this. Normally, I wouldn't consider the MA, even if it is funded (this one is) But the placement record of this one is really as close to a guarantee as you can get, imo. 2011: 6/6 who applied placed at: CUNY, Notre Dame, Chapel Hill, Rice, Johns Hopkins and WashU. 2010: 2/2: Wisconsin-Madison and Toronto 2009: 4/4: Notre Dame x2, USC, Kentucky Coupled with the mixed job placement (and steep teaching responsibilities) at this PhD program, I am seriously considering it. I don't want to seem like I'm desperately lobbying for this MA program, I just want to put all the information out there, because this isn't the typical MA program. I will add the doctoral program is a really good fit for me.

Both offers are fully funded. I don't want to attach too much value to rankings, but the reason behind it correlates to job placement, which is ultimately the issue. The PhD program I have been accepted to has mixed job placement. On the other hand, 50-75% of the graduates from the MA program place at top 20 ish schools, the rest place on the lower half (which is where the PhD program is anyway). Other than setting me back 2 years, it doesn't seem like I'll end up any worse off. Top 10 is a stretch, but I'd like to be in the top half. For those of you who did an MA first, do you feel it helped you in your PhD applications?

Also, as far as rankings go, I don't attach too much value to the difference between a 30-something and 40-something. But it is stark between a 40 and a 15 right?

You went to St. Andrews, a really good school with what I assume is great placement. Do you think that this ultimately helped you get into better PhD programs than if you hadn't?

I totally agree, I am trying to take rankings into context. The PhD program I was admitted to is a great fit for me, but so are a few of the top 20 programs that were my "dream schools". Duquesne is a great program! Duly noted. I didn't think to check the job placement data of the higher-ranked schools. Thanks for all the great advice! I am debating this situation currently. But I think giving specifics may be relevant: A small, low-ranked PhD program with good fit for my interest with mixed job placement vs. A small, selective MA program with a very strong PhD placement record: In 2011, 6 students graduated and placed at: Notre Dame, Johns Hopkins, Chapel Hill, CUNY, Rice and Washington University in St. Louis. Both offers are fully funded. Does that change anything? Originally, it was between the PhD program and a different MA program that was unfunded and had decent, but not as strong, placement. In that case, I can definitely see why the PhD program is a better choice. But this one is really throwing me for a loop because it leads me to believe I may ultimately have a shot at a top program afterwards.

If I could do it again, I wouldn't have shied away from a lot of strong programs because of their deceptively discouraging posted stats.

Hi guys, I thought this may be a useful tool for those of us with questions for any grad students- MA or PhD-- willing to offer up advice This is not limited to, but will probably be dominated by, concerns about application season. My questions are somewhat general, directed at those for whom this is not the "first rodeo". First time around, were you accepted to both MA and PhD programs? Say a lower-ranked PhD program and a strong MA, in terms of placement, which did you choose? Is it a stupid idea to choose the MA route to try and get into a better program after? Or did you decide it was wiser to take the bird in the hand? What about those who were only accepted to MA programs? Did you accept those offers, or decline and reapply to either 1) stronger MA or 2) PhD programs the following season, now that you had a better feel for the process? How did funding play into your decision? IF funding wasn't a factor, would you have chosen otherwise? All opinions welcome! Even those undergrads for whom these circumstances are hypothetical, what would you do in these cases, since it's possible some of us will realize these possibilities, though I hope everyone gets into their top choices!!

SWIM is in this situation. He was accepted to a strong MA with a very good placement record (all his top picks are represented). He was also accepted to a lower-ranked PhD program, albeit a good fit for his interests. I can see the dilemma. Good placement record doesn't guarantee anything, but at the same time it's a total trajectory changer! I'm sure you'll do great before the season is over! Good luck!

I hear ya contradiction. On another note, If you were accepted to a good MA program (listed on the MA section of the Leiter report) and a low-ranked PhD program (40-50), which would you choose? Obviously the idea is that you might get accepted to a better PhD program afterwards. I know some people are going to be in this boat so I figured I'd ask.

intersectional- Illuminating article! I know it's about peer perception of academics, but that behavior usually translates to how they treat their students as well. Elitist jerks who choose favorites in classes vs. genuinely nice professors who encourage all of their students (but also invest in the most interested ones). isaka- yes that's what solicited means. Thanks for chiming in about UCSB also.

Just got shut down by Carnegie-Mellon. Looks like I'm not alone. What's the deal with Santa Barbara? Seems that just a few rejections went out? Anybody else? Hasbeen- totally agreed. I thought these days depts were supposed to be more pluralistic... I guess so many of the adcom members are 100s of years old so they harbor antiquated ideas. At least I can hope.

I would imagine those with MAs post that GPA under the "notes" section but of course, that's just me. It's good news and bad news, but an undergraduate GPA isn't entirely representative of an applicant's ability (arguably). Does it really make a difference if they played too much beer pong when they were 18 and flunked Geology? IF you have an MA to boot, that can definitely show that a student has reformed and/or maintained commitment to academia, but many applicants don't. Of course some weight must be given to GPA, which is why many schools put more emphasis on your last few semesters and major GPA. The problem I think adcoms have with overall GPAs is that, for the most part, anyone who tries hard enough can maintain a good one, thus it represents work ethic/strategy more than "natural ability". Would a student with a high overall who has taken many lower division and "easy" elective courses look better than one with a lower GPA, but more upper division and/or philosophy courses? While they are looking for motivated applicants, philosophers are elitists and want to be sure they're choosing students who they believe are somehow inherently a cut above the others. I imagine that 3/4 of all applicants have high scores, so they need to rely heavily on something else that can discern students better, something that they themselves can judge vs scores given by other parties and that is uniquely, concretely representative of the student, generally the SOP or writing sample. Such is the double-edged sword of subjectivity in this crapshoot of a process! Generally, I have faith that the worrywarts who are stalking the forum are perhaps a bit more invested than others and have probably put more effort into the controllable parts of the app and will end up being admitted. edited to add: As an example of how totally arbitrary the whole thing is, a professor of mine actually told me that a LOR from an eminent philosopher, who does continental, would actually hurt my chances at the schools to which I'm applying (mostly analytic--have some of those letters too)! This guy is someone I became close with in my early undergrad career, when I was still exploring my AOIs. I never thought a laudatory letter from a philosopher could HURT my chances!