jm08

That's right!!

Thanks to everyone for your great responses! @flyingjellyfish -- a friend of mine only checked the DC campus box, but they offered him the Bologna/DC campus option with no explanation. We were like...what is going on here?

I have zero insight into MBB recruiting outside the US. I do know the process is similar, but no clue if it is easier or more difficult recruitment-wise. If I may ask, where are you located now? Edit - wow, I'm apparently blind. New Dehli!

You both raise a strong point on the role of regulation and its impact across the financial services industry. @Revolution, I actually believe they have a class at SAIS dedicated to this topic if you wanted to analyze things from more of a structural perspective. Or, maybe this topic is just reserved for arguing over drinks.

Random question -- for folks attending SAIS Bologna in Year 1, are you receiving the same level of financial support when you return to DC? My understanding was that Bologna had its own "pot" of money, and it would be weird/suck if they didn't provide the similar support when you return. Also, were you selected for the Bologna campus via the checkbox on the application? I've heard of people who were offered admission to Bologna, but not DC without any explanation as to why, and we still haven't been able to figure out their decision-making. Thought maybe we could "crowd source" the answer. (Also I realize "crowd source" is a douchey word, but I'm too lazy to think of alternatives).

For those attending open houses, would you be open to posting your experiences in the thread at some point? I'm sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from your impressions and insights.

The only rising star I know of is Kellogg in terms of MBB recruitment. Just as a FYI, earlier in the thread Revolution and I had a lot of posts on the behind-the-scenes process of consulting and finance recruiting for MA candidates in case you wanted to peruse. (Obvi) bottom-line -- it's an uphill battle, especially if you do not have prior experience. I once conducted case study practice for a friend at Fletcher. It was a nightmare and his MBB interview was in 3 days. Sometimes I don't think people know what they are getting into and/or the expectation level of these firms.

@JFactor - I think you're very spot on with your assessment. The admissions committee can sometimes seem like a bizarre roulette wheel, but I do believe AdCom is very interested in "fit" as well as your ability to clearly demonstrate your understanding of the program, how it fits your career goals, and how you will contribute to their community. A good framework to keep in mind is that AdCom is building a "portfolio" of people, and "diversity" (in a broad sense) is a guiding maxim for them. So, they need to balance the class across geographies, industries, goals, demographics, and so on. Most schools tend to use grades and scores as a quasi-first filter, but I have never heard of a program that blatantly "cuts" students off. I would like to think everyone gets a fair shot. So, if you can put yourself in the shoes of an admissions committee member and speak their language (e.g., clearly show your "fit and value") I think for people on the borderline it can make a huge difference in who gets accepted. Funding is mainly a recruitment tool. In fact, SAIS's director described it in those exact words. It's targeted at people who either have a unique skill or background they feel they are missing, or ultra-competitive candidates they want who are likely to be lured to competing programs. And then -- on top of that, you have the human factor. Who knows if the person was having a bad day and/or if you are coming from an over-represented group. Generally, you compete against people who "look like you". I am curious about some of the outliers though, you'd think top candidates would get in everywhere IF they put together a strong application...but hell, who knows. I'd like to think there is some logic behind their decision-making...

For what it's worth I'm a big fan of the newer versions of SPSS. Having STATA in your back-pocket is good, too, because it's used a bit more broadly than SPSS. SAS is a huge pain to learn because it "inherited" many odd quirks from its initial build that they never got around to changing; it also used primarily in the private sector (at least that was my personal experience). I've also seen decent "how-to" guide floating around the internet if you have the time to do some due diligence to find a good tutorial -- it's definitely possible to teach yourself. No idea how Python knowledge would come across to a potential professor (or employer). You'll also have a leg-up on fellow students the more comfortable you can get with these data packages if you end up taking an econometrics course in your program or intend to do something very quant-heavy post-graduation. Hope that helps!

@ansac111 - hey, my understanding was that Darden, similar to HBS, does not allow ad-hoc dual-degree programs. You either have to do a MA with another UVA department or nothing at all. I looked on their website and it was pretty specific. If you find out otherwise could you post here? Thanks!

To change subjects a little -- I'm curious to hear what SAIS student groups everyone has been thinking about joining, or starting. Does anyone have first-hand information on how fun, useful, demanding, etc. the clubs are?

@JMO - thanks for catching that; very important point! That said, the best way to review the document is to assume (worst case) that the "ultra-elite" jobs likely went to dual degree candidates. This is a great question to ask career services at any school if they track that type of information. I hope they do.

I posted this a few pages back with more detail, but keep in mind: "The above figures do not include the additional salary benefits of SAIS graduates employed in the multilateral sector where income is often tax-free. Nor does it include signing bonuses or end-of-year bonuses which can be a significant part of private sector salaries." The only MA program I found that publishes specific data on actual employers is SIPA. MPA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MPAEmploymentOverview.pdf <-- not sure why this link isn't working. Go here instead: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/employment_statistics.html MIA: http://sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MIAEmploymentOverview.pdf These detailed reports might shed some light on firms you may be interested in that recruit from top IR programs. Unfortunately, Revolution, if you spoke to someone in their Career Services department I imagine they're all just super busy and stressed. Not a good reason for not answering your very reasonable questions, but, hey benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you have already looked at SAIS + linkedin profiles. That's probably the best way to get more information since your background is in a niche field of finance.

Err...I don't think being upfront with them re: your MBA decisions is going to help. As long as you have a logical reason that passes the "sniff" test you should be fine. I'm a little brain dead to throw ideas out there re: well-reasoned BS -- a skill that all graduate students need, I think. (I kid) Check out managementconsulted.com if you want information on how to "break into" MBB without going to a target program. But, again, I think it's a silly idea, but people make it work each year. Also check out Victor Chang, who in my humble opinion has the best case training and insights into top firms. Anyhow, just reference material as I know 99% of people on this board aren't interested in management consulting. So, my last post on the topic. Although I will put forth that the training that you receive at these firms will set you up for life, and provide you a great platform to move into any industry. Most firms kick people out after 2 years with this understanding. Something to chew on. @Revolution -- I think you have a tough road ahead of you, unfortunately, unless you're opening to altering your career goals a bit.

Ask me this question in 3 weeks and I can give you a better answer. I'm moving to Cambridge, so I haven't spent any real time there aside from visiting people. And...I'm not even sure how to answer, I think it depends on who you are talking to and the type of field you want to go into. I'd hypothesize that SAIS is considered the "top" school in DC along with Gtown and people react accordingly. I know in *some* circles people in the Harvard community don't feel that HKS is on the same level as HBS, HLS, and HMS. They tend to keep their opinions to themselves, but the undercurrent is there. Outside the Harvard community, the H-bomb exists and impresses people who are into that type of thing. In terms of private sector employers, I'd imagine MBB and top IB folks would be open to MA or MPA candidates, but you'd have a rougher interview process and they would have concerns over your judgment and decision-making (i.e., why do you not have a MBA?). But, top candidates can get in anywhere if they can back it up. For more traditional MA and MPA employers, I can see both degrees carrying similar weight. I think SAIS has the leg up for simply being in DC and next-door neighbors with the majority of think-tanks, NGOs, multi-laterals, yadda yadda; and SIPA for the UN crowd and maybe some finance jobs. No clue how being in Boston impacts Fletcher and HKS folks due to the geographic distance. I don't really know...to be quite honest. So, take everything I said with a grain-of-salt. However, nobody likes people that are desperate, try-too-hard, or obnoxious -- even if they have those same traits.

@JFactor -- not a problem, hope it helped. I think sometimes people see calculus and panic a little (not saying you did, of course), but again, it simply LOOKS difficult. Once you've done a couple of problem sets and/or someone breaks it down...it's like -- why was I worried? Math is your friend!

@Revolution -- I think the network part depends on each individual person. The types of people I'd like to meet at SAIS are a bit different than who I would target at a MBA program - and part of the reason I want to do a joint degree. And then you have to take into consideration the size and strength of your existing network before school starts. I'm going to screw up the exact wording, but I believe in "smart people build their networks before you need them". Besides, do you really think the poor [insert top school in whatever field] actually enjoys being mobbed by dozens of students oh-so-eager to make a "good impression"? People get cynical real fast...

I believe the calculus on the exams is pretty basic -- first-order derivatives, functions (power, logarithmic, exponential), etc. It all sounds intimidating, especially if you haven't taken math in a few years, but it is really formulaic, plug-and-chug type stuff, and of course, knowing what goes where. I "heard" that some SAIS teachers drop the calculus portion of their class because the majority of students were getting nervous. Again, third-hand information... Anyhow, I'm going to attempt to take the exams, and if I fail there is always pre-term. I only need to pass microeconomics to stay in IDEV as it's a requirement for the program before school starts. Taking three exams...is ambitious, but hey if you have the time and background you might as well give it a shot! Worst case, you have to take the course. Not a big deal. I have not seen anyone post how difficult the exams are so it's hard to calibrate how much studying needs to be done. If anyone comes across that information, please, please post!

I've lived in SF for the last three years, and for some industries it is just as competitive or moreso because many people want to be on the West Coast due to the standard of living and proximity to Silicon Valley, VC firms, Google, Apple, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. I agree that SF seems to be more meritocratic and much less obsessed with pedigree, but...it's strange...everyone is hyper-accomplished, but nobody spends any time talking about. What we obsess about is our hobbies -- and what cool show, road trip, adventure we did that weekend. That's where people get weird and competitive, seriously! Heh, the real challenge isn't finding jobs -- it's finding a place to live. My current place is $1,300/mo with roommates. Now that we're all leaving the landlord is charging $2,000 per person per month; and we had people coming with their checkbooks when we were conducting interviews. All the newly minted Google and Apple millionaires in their 20s have completely bid up the rental and housing market. It is insane.

@DevEcon, glad to meet someone else who is considering SAIS IDEV! My decision-making on (likely) choosing SAIS over HKS is based on the following factors: The SAIS curriculum is more aligned with my long-term goals. I did not apply to the HKS MPA/ID program because it's more geared toward people who want to pursue a PhD and/or those who want to spend the majority of their career in-country. MPA/ID students take PhD-level economics courses, and as much as I love math, it's overkill for what I want to do. HKS is a public policy school first and foremost with an "international concentration"; whereas SAIS could be considered the opposite. I was fortunate to receive about $50,000 from SAIS in fellowship funds. We hear from HKS re: financial aid in early April. I highly doubt I'll receive the same level of funding, which is a major part of my decision-making. The DC location for obvious reasons. I'm actually moving to Cambridge in two weeks, so I'll be better able to compare the two locations. SAIS is its own entity -- no undergrads or other graduate programs, which is nice to receive that level of attention and resources. HKS does "win" in terms of formal programs with top MBA programs. However, the Wharton/SAIS combination is very aligned with what I want to do. The "Harvard" brand isn't really influencing my decision much. People in my field hold SAIS in high regard and it is those people whose opinions matter -- not my neighbors. And, if I'm lucky, any insecure / prestige-thing I might have deep inside can be met by whatever MBA program I attend. All the SAIS students I have met and worked with really "click" with me as people. HKS has been a bit hit-or-miss. Job-wise, I have a strong network, so I'm not really dependent on either school in terms of "access" to jobs; but, both networks are still awesome in their respective areas. I think that's about it. What about you? What programs are you considering and what are you thinking about? In terms of waiver exams, I'm studying now for both micro and macro. I was an Economics undergrad and taught extensively, so I'm just spending some time refreshing. I also have uh, access to some expensive economics books if you're interested. Private message me.

@soapwater -- wow, you have totally captured the "dark side" of DC perfectly. I have had the exact same experience many years ago during my undergrad when I was interning in DC at a "well known" think tank. It was just unreal. On the other hand, most of my work experience has 90% been with people who have MBAs, and the majority of them are some of the nicest and smartest people I have ever met. This is just my experience, of course, but it makes me wonder how geography, sector, and education background influence how much of an unbearable asshole a person turns out to be. Strangely, the HBS people I have worked with are, hands-down, the nicest people. Maybe it's random...I don't know. Very strange.

I don't believe it is free. I saw someone post the fees were $1,200 for one class and $1,800 for two classes. I'm sure the exact amounts are buried somewhere on SAIS's website. What classes were you aiming to take; and, are you in the IDEV program?

Haha - oh, well, I don't know Revolution well enough to assess his intelligence level, but I meant more generally (and tongue-in-cheek). Hence, why it's a topic to talk over drinks. Joking aside, I have personally seen people I would consider "brilliant" be consumed by depression, mania, narcissism, and the whole schizoid family. It's really sad and something that many people are afraid to talk about due to social stigma. On the other hand, you have clearly unstable people who should be avoided...

@riverguide -- I honestly have no idea what that picture means. Sarcasm, confusion, disagreement, gas?

I have mixed feelings on whether to be surprised or not. Besides, what highly intelligent person doesn't have some type or form of mental illness...but that's a discussion to hash out over drinks! Anywho, my "why-can't-we-all-get-along" comments are officially retracted. Commence the blood bath!