donj

That's great!!!

It's typically hard to get funding in Master's programs I think, so it sounds like you're in a pretty good position! I really like Cincinnati's program (I don't know much about Simon Frasier or Texas State) but any kind of graduate assistantship or fellowship will put you ahead if you decide to go for the PhD later on. I did my Master's at a not well-known school, but had a research assistantship, and I think that really helped me in the long-run. I haven't 100% made the decision to go to Penn, but I'm about 90% sure. I'm visiting Penn and then going to Maryland's open house (anyone else??). After visiting, I will know for sure and let them know because I don't want to take up admissions spots any longer than I have to. I just want to try to get an idea of who I could work with at Maryland before I make the final decision.

You are posting on this board looking for advice, and people were gracious enough to give you that. They did not attack your personal character, they just said that *generally* it's not a good idea to go where you're not funded. I agree with them. It's better to wait a year, improve your CV, and reapply, rather than to go into debt unnecessarily. On the other hand, I have heard of at least one person who got funded after their first year, but that was a long time ago. I would ask the people at USC what your realistic prospects are for future funding. Obviously, it's no one's choice but your own, but, either way, it doesn't make sense to lash out aggressively at someone who was just trying to be helpful. If you only wanted one-dimensional "yeah, go for it!" answers, you won't find that here or in grad school. There's a lot of criticism and differences of opinions when you're a grad student, and it's best to take that constructively. Yeah, I agree about faculty specialization. At Maryland, my research interests mesh particularly well with 1 faculty member, at Penn, they mesh well with 2. You're right, ranking isn't everything. It's just hard to be sure I'm not making a mistake if I turn down Maryland! Did you make a decision yet or are you still waiting?

Lol, thanks for the input! I'm not 100% sure yet on jobs/departments, I want to keep some options open. But I will look into recent job placements for both programs. I hope that didn't come off "braggy." Two years ago, fresh out of undergrad, I applied to a lot of PhD programs and only got into masters, so I know how stressful/random this process can be. So I spent two years doing a lot of work to make myself more competitive. I just wasn't expecting it to be stressful when I got IN, too. Big life commitments always scare the $#!7 out of me, which is why I would never advise someone to commit to somewhere they won't be happy!

Anyone have any thoughts about Maryland vs. Penn? I know the ratings are old, but Penn is ranked #12 and Maryland is ranked #1. That would seem clear cut, but when I ask opinions, I get mixed results. Any advice would be super appreciated. Here's some of my factors in the decision: Penn is... - small program (incoming class of 3 phd students, about 10-12 altogether) - smaller, interdisciplinary 11 faculty members (public policy, economics, soc, psych, etc.) - personalized, flexible program (work with mentor to determine courses & comprehensive exam format, can spend time away) - dissertation can be three publishable papers instead - two faculty w/ cool research that have been in touch with me regularly - don't know what the environment is like - afraid of degree marketability in crim or of too many expectations/too much pressure in program - awesome stipend Maryland is... - considered #1 - larger program (about 45-50 active PhD students maybe?) - 15-20 well-respected faculty. obvious powerhouse - common path for all PhD students (courses, comp exams, dissertation) seems to be some flexibility in courses, though - no faculty have been in touch yet, just offer letter, but there is an open house coming up - I have heard rumors of bad competitiveness inside program - afraid of faculty mentors mismatch, and of competitiveness/getting lost in the crowd of students - a good amount of money, but not as much as Penn Thoughts?? I know it's a great choice to have but I am so stressed and indecisive right now Also - I will be visiting both soon for a short time. I could get that "gut feeling" but it's not guaranteed!

Generally, it's a good idea to explain your research interests and professors whose interests align with yours in your personal statement. Academia is definitely one of those worlds people have to be "socialized" into to understand all the protocols and intricacies. Hopefully, PhD programs understand that not all prospective students know these yet. I wouldn't say it was "luck," as they wouldn't admit someone not qualified, but I would say don't look a gift horse in the mouth getting into a program is a big accomplishment!

In my experience (two rounds of applying to grad school) admissions are a fickle thing and rejections aren't always about whether or not you are "good enough." It could be many things, including a POI who doesn't want another grad student or is leaving the department... or other students with similar applications/research interests... Don't let it get you down! Congrats on the acceptance!

Cincinnati has already let some people know, but probably not all. I was there this past weekend. If anyone has any questions about the program feel free to DM me!

I'm also waiting on Maryland, so that's good to know smcg! I have heard from 2 schools, but I don't think it's unusual to hear in early March. I think some schools might do rounds of admittance (at least that's what I've heard about Cincinnati) as in, admit the most qualified first, then a second batch, etc., and then some wait-listed students, until they fill all their slots.

I know the feeling! Good luck

Are you the lone Cincinnati admit on the results page? Lol

Yeah they have a ton of great corrections people. I have a campus visit with them next weekend, but just got into Penn, where I'd be working with profs that do longitudinal studies on recidivism of delinquents/offenders, so I'm split.

Yeah, in undergrad I was a psychology/sociology double major. But I was really interested in how both disciplines applied to crime so I ended up in a Crim MS program. In psych I mostly got the "so you know you're not going to be an FBI profiler, right?" talk over and over again. Otherwise people weren't much help. Psych programs with a crime specialty are few and far between and mostly clinical, which is not my thing. When I explained my research/career goals to people in soc or criminology they were like "um why not be a criminologist?" to which I said, "won't that mean I can't apply psych to my research" and they said "where on earth did you get that idea." I'm still not sure.... Criminology is still a growing field, and if I couldn't find an academic job in crim I'd be interested in policy/analyst/govt type positions. My thing is corrections/life course so I'm happy in crim. There's obviously a ton of violence research in criminology, but there's some in psychology too. Sounds like as long as that's a part of it, you'l be happy! Which might not help you distinguish between to two programs, lol.

Thanks! No word on funding yet though, since they just let me know informally via email. The post about being accepted to the Master's? I didn't get that impression. For those of you talking about FSU, unfortunately I also know someone who got in 2 years ago, but wasn't funded. But last year, I knew someone who got in with funding. So they could have more funding this year, you never know!

I think it can be a tough market either way, but people have consistently told me I will have an easier time finding a job within Criminology. My dept chair said there are 4x more job listings than there are new Crim PhD's each year (I will have to ask him where he got that). I've never seen any actual stats, besides one that said within sociology programs, criminology is the most likely specialization they are looking for in new professors. But, if you think about it logically... there are A LOT more psychology programs than there are criminology programs, so, the market could be flooded. Jobs are one of the reason I chose Crim over Psych (I have a psych background too), but it was also just what made more sense with my interests. It disagree that it would cut you off from secondary interests - I think that it's beneficial to have an interdisciplinary background, and I put a little social psychology in most of my research projects because it's a secondary interest of mine. You may have to do what other people want you do to in grad school, but when you have your PhD, you can carve your own path out as you may. I think it comes down to personal preference. Can you not live without psychology research? Then go that route. Can you not live with criminology research? Than go that route. You probably couldn't go wrong with either program.

Actually just heard today! Got in!

They told me I would hear back end of January/early February, but I haven't heard. Getting nervous too. Did you interview w them?

Yes, I think that there is a lot of flexibility in a Crim education. I have definitely heard of professors becoming consultants or otherwise working in the CJ field. When I talk about rankings, I'm talking about the US News Criminology rankings. I think that's what most people use. Those will help you identify the best doctoral programs, either Criminal Justice or Criminology (Although what you said about theory vs. action might be true, I don't think there's a big difference between the two when it comes to the top programs- instead of looking at the program name, focus on what the faculty seem to be doing there). If you are looking for Master's programs, you can either check ASC's website for a list of Master's programs or check to see if the top PhD schools also have Master's programs. Whatever you decide to do, good luck

No problem! Glad I could help, I was in your shoes not too long ago! An MA/MS usually helps pinpoint research interests - it did for me. Since you do seem to have some idea of your interests, I wouldn't advise you against going straight to PhD, as long as the programs have several people with research you find interesting. I know people in their first and second years of PhD programs that are still experimenting a little. But it is 4-6 years of your life so you want to make sure you are going to like what you will be doing, haha. What do you mean by research and applied work? Like interning/working directly inside the CJ system, or collecting data there? I would say the market for CJ/Crim is better than forensic psych. They seem to be pigeonholed into very specific jobs or very specific psych department's they can work in. That's my outside opinion though. Professors tell me that Crim has good employment prospects, because there are constantly more jobs than people. A lot of departments are hiring around the time that people are graduating with PhD's, and it's less saturated than the bigger fields of psych or soc. Funding depends on the program. A lot of times the higher ranked ones have more funding in the form of research or teaching assistantships or fellowships. There are some MA/MS programs with these opportunities, so if that's very important to you, you'll have to seek those out. Most of the good PhD programs have a lot of funding opportunities, and I think the best programs only accept as many students as they can fund. So, I would say, generally, funding is only as difficult as getting into the program itself is.

You speak the truth. Penn is great, but I would have gone with the funding as well. Congrats!

I was in a similar situation as you. My BA was in Psychology/Sociology and I was planning on going to a Psychology PhD program, but most of my research experience and my classes were more closely related to criminology. I applied to whatever Psych PhD programs with research related to crime I could find. A lot of them were clinical, which is not my forte, but I applied anyways. Not surprisingly, I didn't get in. I got into a Psych master's program, but at the end of the day, I decided to switch to a Crim master's program at a school where I had done an internship and knew I would do some worthwhile research there. Now I am applying to Crim PhD's and am having better luck. I know what my research interests and career goals are now, and I would recommend figuring that out for sure before you make a decision. Do you want to be a professor? An instructor? Work for a parole board? Be an analyst in the DOJ? Work at a nonprofit like RAND? There are a lot of different jobs for Psych and Crim PhDs, so figuring out what sounds like the best career option for you will help you pick the right program. For me, I want to be an academic or a government/nonprofit analyst and any research I really WANT to do is related to crime, so that's how I made my decision to switch to Crim/CJ. Crim/CJ programs are similar to Psych in that they are research-oriented and mentorship based, although you may work with more than 1 person. You will have training in theory and research methods wherever you go. However, research interests and theoretical orientation differs with each different faculty. I have heard of a lot of CJ faculty that do research on prevention/intervention. So, if you are interested in risk assessment, or juvenile justice, or police/courts, look for programs with faculty members that share these interests. There are a lot of theories and a LOT of different types of criminology research, so I don't think the field is slanted any particular way. It sounds as if you have a lot of research experience and applied experience related to criminal justice. So, I don't think you will have a problem getting into a Ph.D. Most programs you can get an MA on the way to your PhD. But, if you do have some trouble getting in, you may want to consider a CJ/Crim Master's first. ASC's website (asc41.com) has a list of Masters and PhD programs, and US News has ranked Criminology programs (mostly PhD's). Hope this helps!

Well congrats on the master's!! Are you considering it or strictly interested in Ph.D. programs?

Yes, it is invite only but I don't think that means that others def won't get in. I know someone who was wait listed without interview at Cincinnati until May but ended up getting in. I haven't actually gotten into anywhere yet, but as far as research goes, I have two research pubs, some encyclopedia entries, and two in-progress pubs. I also have a lot of conferences presentations. I think they are more looking for whether or not you have research/writing skills. If you have those skills and your research interests align with theirs, I think that's what matters.

Anyone else going to Cincinnati's campus visit weekend??

Thank you!! It was about a week ago.