Simbacats

My LORs came from the professor of an abnormal psych class I took at the local college (I never took psych and also some schools require statistics before entering so I was brushing up on those subjects); my boss at a non-profit I worked for about two years; and then finally my supervisor at my mental health advocacy organization, who also happens to be a social worker. Not that I have any concrete confirmation from admissions people, but I think the most important one was that last LOR, because my supervisor was able to recommend me specifically in the context of my suitability for social work. I'm guessing LORs from people who supervise you at the non-profits would be the most ideal, but again, it also probably boils down to who you've clicked with the most and you've done the most with/for. As for the rest, I think there's nothing more I can add in terms of what you "should" do because you've already gotten a lot of feedback from other people. Honestly, I really do think that the most important thing to do is think about what you're passionate about, and why you want to enter social work, as opposed to worrying all that much about getting into a school. A lot of schools accept over half to most applicants, so I think that gives you a lot of leeway. And then ultimately, while I think taking that approach would benefit you in terms of writing your application, I don't think most social workers go into what they do for money or prestige, because usually we don't rank too high on either. They do it because they are drawn to their work. So, it will have to be that passion that will take you through not just school but your career afterwards. ETA: I certainly wouldn't suggest moving to NYC just for this, but while Hunter's official acceptance rate is around 25%-33%, I heard from one alum that there is also a way in which you can be "grandfathered" in, sort of. That is, for some locals who didn't get in the first round but are desperate to get to Hunter at whatever cost / don't mind stretching things out, can still take classes at the social work school. They just won't get placements or the special upper-level classes. But they then make connections with the professors there, apply again, and can get in.

I don't know about U Mich, but I did get into Hunter. I'm not going to go into my academic stats because I'm an aberration (Ph.D dropout in another field) and I seriously don't think you need that kind of background to apply for an MSW. Hunter's minimum GPA requirement is something like 3.0. But what is much, much more important is your statement and experience. And then how you interact with others in the interview if they invite you for one. What Hunter is known for, regardless of budget cuts, etc, is community organizing, serving the underprivileged, and that approach spills over to all its other areas of specialization as well as admissions, I think. At my group interview, the vast majority of applicants had some sort of community-based experience, whether it was drugs counseling, or working for a group home, or educational outreach, etc. Hunter has a definite bent more for say non-profit background as opposed to research (which they aren't strong in at all), and are very serious about diversity, which is reflected both in their faculty and student body to the extent not seen in any other school I've looked at. As the one public, subsidized school in NYC, they also have the reputation for drawing from the best and brightest particularly of the local working class and grooming them specifically to return and serve the city. (Hunter is very big in city government.) Having said that, I think you should first choose your activities based on what interests you most, because they want you to be passionate about what you've been doing. I personally spent a year volunteering/then getting a part-time job at a local mental health advocacy organization, doing everything from helpline work to training as a mentor/counselor for consumers to data collection for program evaluation. It continues to be the most rewarding experience ever. I have the feeling that that, combined with my statement about who I was, what my life experiences were that got me to that point, and in the interview confirming the sort of person I depicted myself as in the statement, was what got me in.

I have been reading about loan forgiveness programs, and don't get me wrong, I am glad they are there and admire people who have the gumption to take them up on it. But, correct me if I'm wrong: 1. Income-based forgiveness applies to federal loans, not private. 2. Public Service Loan Forgiveness: Again, this only applies to federal loans, not private. 3. National Health Service Corps: Again, only applies to federal loans, not private. In addition, for mental health workers for say the National Health Service Corps, an MSW doesn't suffice, and neither does the LMSW license. You need the LCSW, which means you have at least two/three years of limbo while you work on getting that license (and finding a job where you get that supervision). And the fact that most of these places are either in isolated or the worst-hit inner cities, you are limited in where you can go, which is particularly problematic if you have family obligations that affect your mobility. The problem is, most private schools cost more than the maximum amount of federal loans you can take out. There is no way you can get loan forgiveness for private loans. So let's say I go to Columbia. With tuition and living expenses, commuting from home and my scholarship, I estimated I would have to borrow $70,000 for the two years. Which is $35,000 a year, $15,000 of which would have to be private loans since federal is capped at $20,000 or so. At the end of a two-year program, even assuming that I get the public loans forgiven, that would still leave me with $30,000 worth of debt that I will have to pay unless I want to declare bankruptcy and ruin my credit rating forever. Again, if my take on this is wrong, I'd love to be cheered up about it... ETA: I rounded down my numbers but it still looks ugly.

I think UChicago, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU can fill their classes for any number of reasons. For one, they are name schools and there are always people who place value on those names. Also, people who've worked for several years at least and have a nest egg. Or they have an independent source of income. I get the sense this is particularly true for Columbia, with its international students coming for the prestige name, the vast majority of them from rich families. And just regular American upper/upper-middle class people who come from families where philanthropy is in their blood. (ie, with the outlook, "I'd love to learn skills to run the foundation my father/mother/grandmother, etc set up..." ) In that sense, the prestige name also translates into a socio-economic class marker. Finally, I also think that there are a lot of social work students who want to go into private psychotherapy practice, after seeing how therapists can charge over a hundred dollars for a 45-min session. The people who are disadvantaged in this system are the ones who don't have any savings, who don't have a job either with those universities or some other social services agency they can attend at the same time, and who don't come from wealthy backgrounds. People who might be interested in clinical but not necessarily private practice. I'd wanted more input on how my demographic dealt with this situation; I guess the answer is to go to a public school like Hunter. I had a bittersweet email from the NYU financial aid office in my inbox today. Apparently the NYU admissions and financial aid office don't communicate completely smoothly: two days after I neglected to respond to their deadline, I got a response to my financial aid appeal. They said they'd bump my scholarship up another $3,000 to $15,000 which they claim is the absolute maximum scholarship award they give.That was really nice of them, but I still don't think it's affordable for me, though.

I admit student population wasn't something I asked too much about. All I know is that both Columbia and NYU accept several hundred people a year, partly to increase their yield. I think it's like a 60-70% acceptance rate. And something like half of the accepted students decline the offer (I am guessing for financial reasons). So I guess you can arrive at a rough estimate that way. Also, there are two "classes" of social work students students, I think, the full-time MSW students, and those OYR who are pursuing their education while working at their particular agency, and the part-timers/OYR numbers might be harder to come by. I could ask, though. Looking back, I wish I could have done something like OYR. Or had some kind of job with Columbia or NYU. I just didn't get/find those opportunities. One of the social workers at my agency emerged completely debt free from a joint Columbia MPH/MSW program because she was working at Columbia at the same time. Another social worker at my agency emerged from her MSW program from Hunter completely debt free because she did OYR with the agency and also won a city scholarship for OYR professionals at Hunter. If Washington has a strong clinical program (and I suspect they do) I'd imagine that it might be the best bet for you, financially speaking. Although again, if you can afford it Columbia/NYU would probably be equally great. The question is, how much you want to pay for the school name.

Yes, I visited both schools. And talked to the professors at both schools. And talked to many alumni of both schools. There is also a NYU second-year intern at the agency I presently volunteer/have a part-time job at. I will say that people who went to NYU were slightly more gung ho about their experience than those who went to Columbia, although the intern I know is presently freaking out about graduation and starting to pay back her loans in six months. Columbia has the reputation for research, but I get the feeling that's pretty much on the doctoral level. Heck, I would LOVE to go to Columbia for my Ph.D. But at the MSW level you are kind of given short shrift attention-wise by the professors, you're there to get that "Columbia" stamp. Both places are similar in terms of diversity, which is to say, not all that diverse. I guess the issue too is, where do you want to live after your MSW? If you want to move to NYC the networking would be an advantage if you went to Columbia or NYU, Washington if you want to stay in St. Louis. I am pretty much set on staying in the NYC area for the near future, plus my family lives in NYC so I can commute and save on the money, so I didn't apply to any school outside of NYC. The one thing I am aware of is that while Hunter is respected within NYC, the name doesn't necessarily translate well outside of the tri-state area. People have heard of Columbia and NYU though, so you won't have the same problem.

Some more details: NYU used to be known as "the" school to go to if you wanted to be a therapist. It is still supposed to be very strong in this area, and technically all their students are clinical. There is no other track. But it is starting to evolve under new leadership, they are trying to be more and more like Columbia, beefing up their other offerings. NYU is not the school to go to if you want to have anything to do with administration, though.

Have you applied anywhere else? I got into both as well, NYU is supposed to have a slight clinical edge. But only slight, and Columbia is stronger in everything else. If the offers are really exactly the same, maybe Columbia? FWIW, I am probably not going to attend either school. For reasons why, see the thread a started a few hours back, "So...money issues"

Thanks. FWIW, the truth of the matter is, a few days ago, I already notified the various people involved in my application process, as well as the Hunter professors I went to for advice, that I'd attend Hunter. I just haven't sent in my deposit to Hunter, and haven't told anyone at Columbia yet. So you might say I'm unofficially decided, but I still have leeway for a last minute change. And I was having a slight freakout session about turning down Columbia, mostly because I updated a couple of social workers in the field about my decision today. Note: neither of them said anything bad about Hunter. They both thought it was a good choice, particularly in terms of finances. But they were slightly biased towards Columbia. One of the two, the executive director of one of the largest social welfare agencies in the city (note: he went to a small private MSW program), emailed me: "all three of these schools are wonderful....Columbia has the most prestige but Hunter and NYU are certainly viewed with great respect. Hunter, of course, has an economic advantage. Any one you choose will be great! Almost all these schools have similiar placement opportunities....most clinical settings have students from all these schools and all agencies will hire students from any of these schools. Getting a specific job will be based on how you interview.... not which school you graduate from. I think you are over analyzing.....pick the one that is most convenient, is economically feasible and "feels right" to you." The other social worker, who heads the behavioral health services division of a major social welfare agency, told me that if money were no object, to go to Columbia. Because there were people at various organizations (including himself) who preferred the name, and given the avalanche of resumes they receive, they might not get around to contacting those from lesser "name" schools as Columbia MSWs are a dime a dozen in NYC. In fact, he said he noticed my resume pretty much because of my top Ivy undergrad degree, since there are apparently very few people from said school who apply to social work school. On the other hand, he also conceded that since I have that Ivy undergrad background, I would probably still get my foot in the door of such organizations that care about names wherever I get my MSW; that Columbia and Hunter's clinical education were pretty much the same caliber; maybe it's good for me to "experience a different demographic from people who tend to go to Ivies," and since I was planning on staying on in NYC at least until I get my LCSW, having the Hunter name might give me an edge with certain more progressive, community activist organizations in a way that Columbia wouldn't. I kept in mind he is someone with two Ivy degrees, so he is not entirely unbiased on this topic; on the other hand I guess he is proof that yes, there are people in NYC who care about these things. As for the rest...I'd actually spent most of the past month canvassing the three schools, talking with professors about how they got to where they were, and whether it mattered when I tried to apply for their Ph.D programs (given I'd like to eventually do clinical social work research). Their consensus was that it mattered to a certain extent, but Hunter was perfectly in the safe range. I'd like to get some research experience in before I leave my MSW but don't want to sacrifice a clinical placement for it; there are no work study research assistantships for MSW students at Columbia; NYU tried to look into this but said they couldn't say until the summer; Hunter said since so few of their students are interested in research, they try to provide individual attention to those who do. There is also something of a bad rivalry between Columbia and NYU because they compete for the same students / have had staff leaving for one school or another which might impact how they feel about references coming from certain professors at the other school for their Ph.D programs; however, professors at both schools were completely fine with Hunter and everyone said economic consideration was a perfectly acceptable reason to not go to either NYU or Columbia. All of this prompted me to accept Hunter's offer. I was so relieved on Sunday when I finally decided. Maybe this is just last-minute flailing...

Just out of curiosity, how is everyone planning to pay for social work school? Do you have money saved up? Will your family be helping out? I got my various acceptances, but am really struggling with the financial part of it. I don't have any money saved up, and my parents aren't really in a position to help me out, either. NYU: got a $12,000 scholarship, didn't really get info on work study, annual tuition $36,000ish. I decided to let the response deadline come and go. Columbia: got a $13,000 scholarship for the coming year, and $4,000 work study. I hear that's on the higher end of things. Except annual tuition is around $40,000 not counting living expenses. Even if I take out the max in federal loans which I think is capped at $20,500, I will still have to get private loans just to even cover the tuition, never mind living expenses. I probably would have to pay off $60,000 in loans at the very, very least, probably closer to $70,000. Which probably translates into several hundred dollars of loan repayment a month. Hunter: in-state annual tuition is $12,000 a year. The federal loan would cover my living expenses as well as tuition, as I will be commuting from home. I would have loans of less than $40,000 to pay off, which probably translates into more like a couple hundred dollars a month. Meanwhile, I hear the average entry-level (clinical) social worker in the NYC area (which is where I plan to stay) makes $45,000 a year, if that. I think I could afford Hunter. But I am not sure I can afford Columbia, even though it's high on the prestige factor. Of course, I have less than a week to officially decide...

Hi! Just came across this forum. I submitted my applications to Columbia, NYU, and Hunter all at/around their application deadlines (Jan 3, Jan 12, and Feb 4) Columbia: submitted application Jan 3, got accepted Feb 21 NYU: submitted application Jan 12, accepted Feb 12 Hunter: submitted application Feb 4, interviewed March 19, accepted April 2 From what I gather though, the schools' response timelines don't seem to be uniform across the board for their applicants. For instance, I had to extend response deadlines for Columbia (once) and NYU (twice) while I was waiting to hear from Hunter. But a couple of other prospective students I interviewed with at the group interview at Hunter had applied to the same schools, but for some reason for NYU they still had until the end of March. And then of course Hunter seems to have been accepting students since February, yet they aren't finalizing all their decisions until May 1! It was a pretty frustrating experience.