WaddleDoos
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Posts posted by WaddleDoos
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Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!
Looking forward to any new advice or perspective!
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He was admitted to the Statistics track. I assume it would be difficult to switch. Actually, I am not sure if you saw it, but in one of the links that I gave above it shows outcomes.
http://www.ams.sunysb.edu/graduate/PhDAlumni.pdf
I'm very skeptical about going to SB to go into wallstreet from stats it seems like most people are stuck in post doc?
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This is absolutely correct. There are advisors at Ivy-league departments that are less-known than the faculty at, say, Florida. The institution by its own right does not say too much about the quality of the individual; there are many factors that determine this, but a strong advisor is more important than a strong department.
What this says about your boyfriend's dilemma is that it seems like he will be doing biostatistics at either school. And biostatistics research does not necessarily lead to quant jobs on Wall Street, but neither does a statistical background. I would ask your boyfriend to spend some time thinking about whether either degree will let him get the jobs he seems to really want. Job placement records will help tremendously with that.
Can you get nonbiostatistic jobs with a biostatistics phd?
How do you find out if a person is famous or a strong advisor then? For a person like me with no background in statistics?
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That really doesn't say much about how good the research that is being done is.
Could you elaborate a little on this please? Sorry I'm in the medical field and do not understand what makes good or bad research in statistics.
From what my boyfriend tells me, you can gauge the quality of research that is done at a school by looking at the faculty you will be working with.
"At this point I don't feel that I can tell you which program is better unless you have a good list of job placement out of both programs; and this is something that your boyfriend and you can look at for yourselves. There are some pros/cons to both (although Ivy-league background does not mean stronger faculty). You have strong reasons to prefer the other program but job placements will say for sure."
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You mentioned that the other program he is considering is a biostatistics program? Is it at a ranked or unranked biostatistics department, or is it, again, a part of another non-dedicated department (not that there is anything inherently wrong with this, as Boston U's reasonably strong statistics group is in the mathematics department as well)? Would you be willing to give the name of the other school? I am hesitant to comment on the marketability of the Stony Brook name; again, it is certainly not Ivy, in a region relatively rich in Ivy-educated students. Having a PhD in statistics does not grant him the ability to have any kind of job "lined up" after graduation, especially since it sounds like his research will have to be in biostatistics regardless of the program he chooses.
It is a biostatistics program with a lot of funding and potential. I can't really say which one because it would give away his identity. It has its own dedicated department.
I'm sorry if that does not help a lot. The other concern is that the faculty from the biostats program is "weaker" than stony brook's few 5 statistics faculty. The few statistics faculty at stony brook have some ivy league backgrounds while for the most part the other school has some mid tier backgrounds (University of Florida for example)
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I was told while visiting some programs that first-years mostly take the same courses that an MA student would take. Having directed reading afterwards in lieu of potentially irrelevant courses in different kinds of applied regression does not sound like a downside to the program on its own.
Having seen the work being done by the statistics faculty at SB (it is all biostatistical), I would say that, if the other program has better job placement in the types of jobs your boyfriend is interested in, then he should attend the other program.
Stony Brook is not on the same level as UNC, Harvard, Cornell, Mellon, etc. right? Maybe you could get away with reduced Ph.D level courses from top tier schools but can you get away with it with Stony Brook level?
And my boyfriend has it in his head that he can get marketing, banking, wall street types of jobs coming out of the statistics program at Stony Brook because it's a known school in NY... in my opinion I think he is wrong.
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I would not personally consider "self-learned" mathematics to be any less rigorous than "lectured" mathematics (especially if it is directed by a faculty member). In fact, directed reading tends to be far more productive to mathematics students than lectures...
OP: I would suggest that your boyfriend ask the two departments what their (entire/recent) record of job placement is for their doctorate students.
I took a look at the colleges in your signature and they all have Ph.D level statistics courses and requirements...
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Washington University in St. Louis was Ph.D in Civil Engineering
Princeton I forget but it heavily involved Fluid Dynamics.
And about the whole "self learning" aspect.
Doesn't this hurt you later on if you choose to go into academia? I would not hire someone with a Ph.D who only took some watered down MS level courses and "self learned" as a professor... would you? -
I have never heard of a Ph.D program NOT having Ph.D level courses and having a student only taking courses (at the MS level) for the first year.
I asked my uncle who got a Ph.D from Princeton and my father who got a Ph.D from Washington University in St. Louis who both said this was very very suspicious.
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Hello everyone I am in need of advice.
My boyfriend obtained admission to Stony Brook's Applied Mathematics and Statistics Ph.D program, specifically for the statistics track late February. He also got funding and was very happy. However, since then, he has received other offers and has begun comparing programs.
In the process of comparing programs, a closer look to Stony Brook's program raised some red flags. I am concerned that the Ph.D is very questionable (fake Ph.D). I hope you guys can help offer some second opinions and confirm whether or not we should be worried about the integrity of the program. The problems (and assumptions):
1. In this link:
http://www.ams.sunysb.edu/graduate/phdrequ.shtml
The Ph.D program is described as "There are no specific course requirements for the Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics and Statistics." It seems the main requirement is passing qualifying exams and a successful dissertation.
http://www.ams.sunysb.edu/ProspGradStudent.html
Repeats the same information, and says that the courses the "Ph.D" student will take are master level, and only for the first year. For the second year and beyond:
"In the second year, students pick an advisor and join her/his research team, where their education continues through directed reading."
Am I correct in thinking that this is irregular and a huge red flag? Basically there are no Ph.D level classes?
2. Related to what I wrote above, the courses available for study are few in number and seem to be entirely master level (simpler) courses.
http://www.ams.sunysb.edu/STAT/STATCourses.shtml
Is this representative of a weaker stats program? Especially combined with the fact that Stony Brook does not have an independent, separate statistics department?
I am also curious to why there is no survival analysis class, but the research interests of the (5) faculty in the statistics section do work on cancer???
3. The makeup of the student population, length of time to graduate and following quote lead me to believe that the "loose" course requirements and lack of Ph.D courses with focus on "directed reading" and research is to drive a slave mill:
"80% of our students, once past the PhD quals, finish their PhDs in five years."
^ So 5-6 years standard???
"It is not uncommon for a student with previous graduate work to finish in three years."
^ LIE?
http://www.ams.sunysb.edu/graduate/PhDAlumni.pdf
Looking at the pdf above, it seems that the population is mostly consisted of super intelilgent foreign students. There are quite a number of these students who have Ph.D dates ranging from 5-6 years. Or they graduate to spend more time in education chasing a post doc. Is this kind of student population the kind where you have to have no life and spend like 80+ hours a week slaving away?
FINAL THOUGHTS / CONCERNS:
My boyfriend thinks that Stony Brook is a recognizable name on the east coast and can land him good jobs upon graduating. Thus, the NY location is a huge factor in his mind. I'm reluctant to believe that #1 Stony Brook is that competitive and #2 that a good job is waiting upon graduation. In fact I'm quite wary because it seems like the alumni placement has most running into postdocs instead...
I have an extremely low opinion of Stony Brook right now. In fact, from my above concerns I am of the opinion that the school is promoting a fradulent Ph.D program.
The other major alternative my boyfriend is considering is a Biostatistics program (also giving full funding) that is away from the east coast. The courses there are harder and more thorough which is a plus, but my boyfriend is worried that #1 he will be locked in pharma or hospital work forever (banking, marketing, etc. impossible) and #2 that it will be difficult to find a job on the east coast upon graduation.
I am most worried about the authenticity of the Stony Brook program which to me raises some red flags. I would greatly appreciate some insight and opinions on this matter especially since this is a somewhat time sensitive issue. Even information Stony Brook in general and its competitiveness in stats would be helpful.
Thanks again.
Stony Brook Statistics Ph.D Problematic?
in Mathematics and Statistics
Posted · Edited by WaddleDoos
Thanks everyone for the input. I will be sending out private messages to get an opinion about the 2nd school.
A little about us: I come from a european (irish/english) background while my boyfriend is an international asian who I met during his masters. I feel that I understand American culture better since I grew up here (so for example no advanced phd classes in a phd program is odd) while he feels that he has the know how because it's HIS field.
Once again, thanks everyone for helping out and contributing your opinions. It's been very helpful. I'll be relying on your advice and input regarding the private message. Thanks again.
EDIT: (Some responses to comments)
My bf has this idea in his head that he can make a lot more money if he ran into marketing/finance/banking, etc. I personally feel that going to SB is #1 not going to guarantee such a job, and #2 you wouldn't necessarily make gigantic amounts of cash anyway over statistics/biostats?
I suppose it's safe to say he "changed his mind" because he saw dollar signs and feels that a ph.d with stony brook's name on it is enough, even if the courses are lower tier or through "directed reading".