Stud. Theol.

Hi all, I got and acceptance from Claremont today with half tuition. So my problem is obvious, how would I come up with the other half? Claremont was/is my top choice and since I got turned down at UVA, really my only choice. Does anyone know whether this is really a viable offer. I guess they'd only offer half tuition if it was doable, not merely a tease. But I really don't know much about funding. I had always just assumed that if I got in anywhere it would be handled and I'd just have to find a way to survive on top of that. Anyone have any insight here? My situation is that I have a wife and young kids. We may be able to live with my father rent-free. He has a large house about 40 miles from campus so I'd have to commute but at least I'm not paying rent. So paying, what $15k, a semester is going to be rough. My wife can work nights but I'm thinking that's mainly for us to survive. I don't know whether she can pay the rest and my opinion is that she shouldn't have to. Thanks

sleepingdogmatist, Yes, RA is right, it was John Thatanamil. If you have similar interests definitely contact him. He's very helpful. He corresponded with me at length despite the fact that he doubted I was a good fit. As I said, I really don't think that rejecting something as evident and fundamental as the principle of identity is a viable way to develop a philosophically credible notion of religious identity but if you can work something there he'd be the guy to talk to.

Ask the lower tier school about recent placements in your area. I think most people understand that "lower tier" schools can and are often much more appropriate for certain niches. The whole tier thing is an overall perspective, not a granular judgment of each aspect of a program. Perhaps the best thing you can do is contact the school that accepted you and ask whether they can put you in contact with people in your area who have recently graduated. Then talk to those people and ask them about the job market and how well the program prepared them. If they can't tell you nobody can help and you'll just have to guess.

Sarah, If you email UVA they'll tell you whether you're on the list or not. They responded to me in less than 15 minutes.

Thanks for the response Revolage, I am interested in the same topics and am hoping to work in the same general area. In fact, I suggested an analysis of Barth's rejection of natural theology (primarly in comparision with the Anselmian conception) as my key research topic. Perhaps that's part of the problem. I had contacted a number of Barth scholars to see if they'd be interested in supervising that topic and I think that most probably aren't too concered with that abstracted issue. So, like you, my key interests are in natural theology and religious epistemology. In addition I'm interested in the divine attributes. (Again I'm pretty Anselmian in my perspective and I know that's not too popular outside of places like ND philosophy.) Perhaps at some point we can compare notes. I'd be interested to see/hear about what sort of work you end up doing at BU or wherever you go. Incidentally, Wildman told me that the analytic approach to religion is a valid approach but there are "few if any" who would support such work at BU. He suggested that a confessional school would be better. Although I did not advertise that I'm an evangelical I think he suspected that that was the case and was trying to lead me to Fuller, Trinity, or Dallas. Unfortunately, I don't think one can get an adequate level of interaction with first rate philosophers at those places. So that's a problem.

Thanks Revolage that is helpful. I spoke to Wesley Wildman who told me quite directly not to apply to BU. When I got his reply I crossed them off my list and didn't give it a second thought. I guess I don't know what to make of it if one faculty member makes it clear that I won't get in whereas another might actually be interested in what I'm doing. Besides Chicago and BU, where else did you apply. Do you think Fuller or PTS would be good places to do philosophical theology? I might actually be able to get into Fuller. Who knows... probably not.

Looking forward to next year... I am hoping to find better schools for my interests next year. Maybe some of you will have suggestions as to where I can look. My academic interests are found at the interface of analytic philosophy and Christian systematic theology. I think that one can construct a systematic, coherent theology from the Bible (I know that many people don't agree... so I probably won't be studying with them) and that we can use the tools of analytic philosophy to test and inform aspects of our system. (Of those who would agree with me more-or-less on the first point, fewer will agree with me on the second.) Anyway, I have to tread lightly and find the right place because I know these assertions will strike many as typically modernist if not downright pre-modern. I'd say the paradigmatic theologians for this approach are guys like Anselm and Thomas. I'm not real big on the in-vogue topics relevant to race, gender, and sexuality. Frankly, I couldn't care less, so I'd probably find some of the bigger, well-known programs places where I'd be constantly annoyed. My problem has been finding a program that even understands the issues I'm talking about let alone take them seriously. I basically looked for programs that offered areas like "philosophical theology" or "philosophy of religion" or something of that sort. What I found is that those titles don't actually indicate anything about what the program is. I spoke with faculty at Vanderbilt, BU, and Chicago who told me that they hadn't the foggiest idea of what I was doing, didn't think the approach to theology that I took was even viable, and that I wouldn't find anyone who would support my projects at their school. The guy I talked to at Vanderbilt sniffed out that I was some sort of theological troglodyte and sent me a paper he had written on how to cultivate multiple religious identities. Evidently, we've all been victimized by the imperialism that is standard logic. If we simply ignore the principle of identity--the self-evident idea that a thing is the thing that it is and not something else--then we can see that there are other, non-western notions of identity (though he doesn't say what they are) that may make it possible to be a Christian Hindu (which is what he is). Fantastic! Just reject elementary logical principles and the problems go away. Why didn't I think of that... brilliant! Anyway, there's no way I'd be able to stomach that sort of thing for 6 years if they think that's what philosophical theology amounts to. So where can I look? I thought that UVA might be the place. Since I was interested in Barth and Schliermacher as well I thought that I might be able to work with Paul Jones but when I brought up those other issues with faculty members they looked at me like I had two heads. Chuck Matthews said something like, "Oh yeah, God and time. Eleanore Stump, that sort of thing? Dumb." The only other place I could find was Claremont. I thought some of the Catholic schools might be more amiable but someone at Fordham told me that he was the only one who was familiar with what I was saying and he wasn't interested in the particular topics I had in mind. I got good feedback from individuals at Cambridge, Oxford, and Kings College but with 4 kids, I don't think I'll be leaving the country. The flip side is to go into a philosophy program but I fear that I won't be doing theology there. Most philosophers have to keep their work in phil of religion low key. (And please don't suggest Notre Dame philosophy. There's no way I'm ever getting into Notre Dame.) If anyone has any sort of sense for where I might look I would be eternally grateful.

Tired, I'm not sure. There are more faculty teaching in the PRT and TEC area so I assume they take more students. But proportionally speaking, she didn't give me a sense for that.

Yes, she mentioned that PRT and Ethics are the PRT and TEC are the biggest areas and will take longer because there are so many applications. We may be the last groups but it sounded like the 17th was the drop dead date for them. Good luck to you.

Tired, What area are you applying to? I called CGU today and the secretary told me that they notified Hebrew Bible applicants today but other programs will take longer. I applied to PRT and she said that was one of the bigger application pools so they hope to have responses out by the 17th (which is their spring break).

No way! I did that too but I saw "MA" at the top of my results page a few weeks later so I called UVA admissions and they changed it. There might be something wrong with their app, because I know I was really careful with it and couldn't figure out how I ended up applying for the MA. Well, for me it didn't matter anyway.

Anyone hear from Claremont yet? I'm hoping for some news this week. I emailed and called (no one there)... but nothing yet.

I emailed Sara Adams, the graduate coordinator. You can get her email address at the bottom of the faculty page on their departmental website.

No, I didn't get any further information and my status still says "pending."

Just got rejected at UVA... man, I thought they liked me.

tiredofrejection, I was just looking at the few comments on Claremont from last year's results page and it looks like they send out notices in the first few weeks of March. So we can expect something soon I suppose.

Ting, I applied to 9 philosophy programs in 2006 and didn't even get a human response from any of those programs. Only one school even bothered to send me anything in the mail. This whole business is ridiculously discouraging, especially in our field. Sorry to hear about your results. You are clearly more than qualified on paper. If you did get a poor or negative recommendation, however, that can be the kiss of death. With a 3.9 GPA it's hard to imagine that any of your recommenders would have had anything bad to say but I know it can happen. I think that some profs get very lazy in their grading and allow for such inflation that, when they're asked to say what they really think of a student, their opinions are out of proportion with how they graded that student. I had a recommender who had given me 5 A's in 5 classes I'd taken with him tell me he'd only provide a lukewarm recommendation. If he had thought I wasn't worth more than a lukewarm recommendation then you'd think he would have given me a B along the way... let alone mostly C's or something. I don't think he cared about grades and wanted to avoid student complaints so he just gave our A's like Krispy Kreme gives out free doughnuts. I'm not saying that's your situation but it was mine (although I think I'm quite capable and will do well in a top graduate program). Its hard to find a real advocate or friend sometimes. I too have a 3.9 GPA in a very competitive program (not Yale, but I think pretty good), an MA in philosophy and an MA in theology and things look rather grim for me too.

Who posted on the results page: "Every School Religion, PhD Rejected via Postal Service on 29 Feb 2008 A 29 Feb 2008 V: 800 Q:800 W: 5.5 GPA at Yale 3.99 (1st in class). Why did I flop?" Is this a joke? If it's not I can't reasonably expect to get in anywhere.

Anyone have an update on Claremont or UVA? If anyone else is fairly certain that this is your last year to apply, I wish you the best. I will know within a few weeks whether the trajectory of my life goes through academic terrain or whether I'll just be some guy in his kitchen cooking macaroni and cheese. (I think of the non-academic life as more-or-less standing in one's kitchen cooking macaroni and cheese... I guess I'll need to get over that image either way I go.)

Svartsven, What is your area of focus? Philosophy of religion, philosophical theology, something in that arena? I am hoping to do something within that blurry arena myself. I applied to a number of top Ph.D. programs in philosophy 2 years ago and was shut out. (I aimed a bit too high, apparently. And my focus on phil. theol. or phil of religion probably didn't make many people in those philosophy programs jump for joy.) This time around I am focusing on religion/theology programs that are friendly (or at least not opposed) to projects in philosophical theology. If you're looking at similar topics, what programs/people have you focused on?

Sorry, that was confusing. No, I wasn't invited for an interview after I applied. I arranged a campus visit before I sent my application. I was just wondering if anyone else had had any sort of direct interaction with the faculty and might share their impressions. My own impression is that it's a very good environment in which to do theology (my own focus). Each of the individuals I met with even expressed a sort of optimism/excitement about both the work that they do and the graduate progam, generally. In interacting with some individuals at other programs I got the impression that this is somewhat rare. I'm just very high on UVA and, so, pretty hopeful. Also, if anyone did land a post-application invite, I wouldn't mind hearing how that went. UVA required our apps in early December so I guess I'm antsy to know either way.

Sarah, Did you, by chance, land an interview with the UVA faculty? I got to meet Jones, Hart, and sit in on a class with Mathews. They are a very cordial bunch.

Anyone hear from Virginia?

I recently came across two (very informal) discussions about religion rankings. They actually both focus on Christian theology (witha slightly conservative bent), so if anyone finds themselves more-or-less in the Nicene tradition then these may be valuable as far as rough opinions go: http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=447 http://prosblogion.ektopos.com/archives ... e-tgr.html Also, regarding the NRC rankings, I did read a footnote somewhere that new rankings for religion were supposed to come out this month. I'm not sure if that's true, however.

I guess I'm full of questions: So if I don't get an invitation to interview can I assume I'm not getting in?