1000Plateaus

The 2nd reader on my thesis committee unfortunately agrees with my Supervisor. They seem to think that I don't have what it takes to continue onto a PhD. My 2nd reader's main issue was that it took me 3 years to finish a 2 year program. My whole counter argument to that is that it only took me an extra year because the thesis topic I chose was too challenging. It was so challenging that my 1st draft of the thesis got rejected and I re-wrote 95% of it from scratch. If I had been advised to switch topics to something more manageable, or if I had chosen an easier topic, then I would have finished on time and wouldn't be in this mess. My Supervisor never advised me to switch to something more manageable, he just watched me struggle at something which, I think, he knew was doomed from the start. But of course my Supervisor doesn't think I can 'cut it' in a PhD program. My 2nd reader agrees. So it's essentially their word against mine. I asked my 2nd reader that if I re-wrote the 3rd chapter of my thesis for him, would he read it? Or, if I were to audit a grad seminar with him and write a paper for it, would he read it? I just want to be given a chance to show that I have learned from my mistakes and that I can improve as a student. We'll see what he says. I am still pretty fucking upset that when I told my Supervisor that I can do better and improve, he said (to my face): "No, I don't think you can." What kind of advisor or teacher says that to a student? Just from a pedagogical point of view, it's asinine and cruel. No other human being should be allowed to cast that kind of judgment, especially when it's a teacher-student relationship. So I'm pretty disheartened and am trying to figure out what to do.

Yeah, I'm trying to reach out to other professors who know me the in the Dept. It's difficult when your own advisor basically disowns you. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, the first time I applied got accepted into the PhD program, my Supervisor had written my a LOR. So between then and now, he was so unimpressed with me and my work, that he refuses to write me a letter. Like I said, my jaw dropped when he said it to my face.

I haven't spoken directly to my 2nd reader yet about getting possible letters. He had some issues with the 3rd chapter, but perhaps if I demonstrate that I can do better and improve, maybe he will write on my behalf?

I should quickly add that throughout my work experiences with my Supervisor, he kept giving me very critical comments about my chapters. I brushed this all off as him just being overtly harsh and cruel, and that he was attempting to advise and guide me. And yes, I did get my work to a point where was defensible, but now looking back on the past 2 years of writing, I am starting to think that the fact that he was fighting with me every step of the way was already a huge warning sign that he was never in my corner.

This post relates to a previous one I started (see here:). It describes my horrible experience with a MA thesis and advisor. Here are some things to keep in mind: 1) my advisor is leaving the country in 2 days for 8 months. So he was strict enough to get to defend before he left. 2) I applied to PhD programs a year ago (with letter from my 1st and 2nd reader) and got accepted to the same program where I finished my MA. This PhD offer got revoked, however, because my thesis was ready for defense. Here's what happened yesterday: I finally finished and defended my MA thesis. It was successful, and after taking an extra year to finish this difficult thing, I felt great. My celebration was cut short (it altogether lasted 5 min), when my Supervisor asked to speak to me in his office right after the defence. I thought he was going to congratulate me and finally, after nearly 2 years of writing, re-writing and struggling, say something positive about my work. I was wrong. Here's what he said: He looked me in the face, and told me that there is no way he can write me a letter of reference to a PhD program. He doesn't feel confident in my abilities, and is my thesis was a representation of my 'best work' he doesn't think I belong in a PhD program. He's made up his mind. My jaw dropped. Keep in mind that the thesis I defended successfully was re-written nearly from scratch, I worked very hard to finish, and none of that factors into his decision. (Never mind that I was already accepted into a PhD program at the same Dept. as my MA last year, but the offer got revoked because my MA wasn't ready for defense). I told him that I could do better. He said he doesn't think I can. I was traumatized, and very angry. I still am. And when I told him that I struggled because I picked a very ambitious topic, he said the word 'ambitious' isn't correct, but rather that "You just don't know what you're talking about." He went on to say that I had struggled more than any other MA student ever in his experience. Here's a little historical perspective: as a MA student in philosophy, the Dept. asks its student to submit a thesis proposal that is approved by your committee. The topic I proposed was challenging, and at the original meeting, my Supervisor 'warned' me by saying 'It's gonna be challenging', very 'matter of fact-ly'. Throughout submitting chapters, my supervisor kept reading and commenting, being very destructive rather than constructive. Not once did he intervene and advise me to scrap this project and write something more manageable that would be more successful. I talked to the Chair of the Dept. right after my Supervisor had stunned me with this news. I protested that if the major issue was that my topic was too challenging, then why was it approved in the first place? Why didn't my adviser do his job and get me to change my topic? He had just watched me struggle and struggle with the material, pointing out that i was struggling, but did nothing proactive to actually help me through his ordeal. The Chair just said that the best I could do was to file a formal complaint with the University Admin about bad supervision. So, from my perspective, I feel as though my advisor set me up from the beginning just to watch me fail. I thought that getting a defensible thesis, after doing a lot of work and re-writing, was a demonstration of my hard work and perseverance, and that this would be a positive virtue in a student. But it wasn't. He essentially wiped his hands clean and moved on. I spent 3 years of my life finishing my MA degree, and now the prospects of carrying onwards have been made that much more difficult in that my own Supervisor refuses to write me a letter. I've never been so angry in my life. to add insult to injury, I was accepted into a PhD program a year ago. But apparently now 'don't have what it takes'. He never advised me to try to get to a level where my work would be judged 'good enough' in his opinion for me to move on. People in institutional positions of power can really fuck with people's lives. The last 3 years is a testament to that.

I am almost finished my MA thesis, but am now nervous about having to re-apply to the same PhD program. A recent PhD grad from my same program mentioned that because it has taken me an extra year to finish my MA degree, that does not look favourably on me in terms of getting strong LOR. In my defence, I said that I had chosen a very difficult MA topic, and that it was too ambitious (the scope was that of a dissertation, not a thesis), so naturally it has taken me longer to complete. But I'm still worried that the fact that it's taken me longer to finish my thesis has 'underwhelmed' my supervisor, and that when I do ask him to write on my behalf for the PhD program (for a second time), his letter won't be as strong as it could have been. Am I paranoid, here? Or does my friend (the PhD) have a point? Have I tarnished my chances of being re-admitted into the program (given that I was offered admission once already)?

So I'm in a strange situation. I was admitted to a PhD program in philosophy for the 2012 school year, but was still working on my MA thesis (at the same Dept). Long story short (you can read the details here: my PhD offer was revoked because I failed to finish my Master's in time. I am almost finished my MA thesis, but am now nervous about having to re-apply to the same PhD program. A recent PhD grad from my same program mentioned that because it has taken me an extra year to finish my MA degree, that does not look favourably on me in terms of getting strong LOR. In my defence, I said that I had chosen a very difficult MA topic, and that it was too ambitious (the scope was that of a dissertation, not a thesis), so naturally it has taken me longer to complete. But I'm still worried that the fact that it's taken me longer to finish my thesis has 'underwhelmed' my supervisor, and that when I do ask him to write on my behalf for the PhD program (for a second time), his letter won't be as strong as it could have been. Am I paranoid, here? Or does my friend (the PhD) have a point? Have I tarnished my chances of being re-admitted into the program (given that I was offered admission once already)?

Well, I'm studying in Canada. University of Guelph has a great philosophy program, you may want to look there. It all really depends on what your research interests are. If you're set on working on Nietzsche, I am sure there are good Nietzsche scholars in the US. Australia also has good programs, but again international fees are high and there is never enough funding. Your best bet would be to win a scholarship, which is easier said than done.

The CRMEP is possibly the best 'Continental philosophy' program in the English speaking world. I applied to their MA program a few years ago and got accepted. Living in Canada, I had to try to cough up the international fees. The problem with the UK system is that their higher education fees are staggering, especially for international students. There isn't a lot of financial aid unfortunately. your best bet would be to win a Scholarship from your country and try put it towards studying in the UK. It's competitive but that's how it is. As for the faculty, you have world renowned names: Peter Hallward (Badiou scholar and translator), Eric Alliez (Deleuze's student), Peter Osborne, Catherine Malabou (excellent Hegelian), Stella Stanford, and others. It's a politically left-wing program, with a lot of radical theoretical work being done. Depending on your research interests, you may also wish to look at U of Warwick's philosophy program, They have some excellent people who do work on Nietzsche, Deleuze, Heidegger, and Hegel.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I do feel that if I can get through this, I will feel reinvigorated and revitalized To use an old cliché: it's the journey that counts, not the destination, right?

Thank you all for the advice and kind words! Yes, I have been often told that graduate life (and academia in general) is full of this kind of pressure - and while at times it feels as if I'm suffering from Impostor Syndrome, most grads are having similar experiences. I'm not sure about other graduate programs and students, but rarely, if ever, do students in my Dept. voice their distress and concerns. If we're all jumping through similar hoops, why not talk about it and support one another? I'm glad I came upon this website. Thanks again!

I'll try to be as brief as possible. I applied and was admitted to a MA program in philosophy in Canada. It's a 2-year MA program with coursework and a MA thesis with an oral defense. That was in 2010. It's now 2013 and I still have not graduated. Here's why: I finished my coursework in time. My thesis is the problem. Like all who have to write theses and dissertations, I wrote a proposal for my MA thesis. My supervisor read it over and said he could work with me on it. The proposed project, while ambitious in its scope and subject matter, was approved by my committee in May 2011. That summer I began doing research, taking notes, and writing. During my 2nd year, I was still writing and doing coursework, and that winter applied to various PhD programs, thinking I was going to finish in due time. Boy, was I ever wrong! I got accepted into the PhD program at the SAME Dept. where I am still doing my MA. I was thrilled, and I was looking forward with starting my PhD in the Fall of 2012. From Jan 2012 to August 2012 I was writing like crazy and sending drafts of my chapters to my supervisor to read and correct. A little bit about my advisor: he's a well-respected scholar and academic, he's a bit of a 'star' at my school, undergrads love his lectures. He has 6-8 MA and PhD students, including his own research - which ALWAYS takes priority over everything else. Suffice it to say that he barely shows any investment in his students, making it up to you to track him down and ask to meet with him face-to-face to discuss things. He's intimidating, has no patience for friendly chit-chat. In personal meetings, if you don't ask him direct questions about work, he isn't going to talk, he just stares you down. He is a very tough advisor, someone who can never manage a positive comment and has a tendency to be very harsh, rude, insulting, and downright mean in his 'constructive' comments. I tried to ignore his nasty words and just focus on the points he was attempting to get across. He made me re-write my 2nd chapter 3 times in the summer of 2012, which is fine because I thought I was in the right track. I met with him in August to talk about my plan to defend in the fall of 2012. In that meeting, he mentioned I would have to probably pay extra tuition for the fall term. Confused, I had to remind him that I was actually coming back in Fall 2012 as a PhD student. He has forgotten that I had been accepted and was returning as a student (even though he had written a letter on my behalf). Fast forward to Sept. 2012. I had registered as a PhD student in my Dept. and was ready to start my program, however I hadn't defended my MA thesis yet. My advisor had not reminded me of the Sept. deadline that MA degrees need to be complete for students to advance to the PhD level. I had NO idea that this deadline existed, never mind that my advisor had forgotten that I was supposed to come back as a full-time student. So I panicked. The Chair of the Dept. informed me that if I didn't finish by the 26th, then my PhD offer was going to be void. I would lose it. So for the remaining 3-4 weeks, I was doing heavy editing, writing and revising. My draft needed to be approved by my supervisor, as well as my 2nd reader (who hadn't read a word of my thesis at this point). Barely getting any sleep, I managed to have a complete draft ready for my advisor to read over on Sept. 23rd. E-mail from Hell: Then I got what I've tentatively called 'The E-mail from Hell'. My advisor wrote a 6-10 paragraph e-mail, explaining that it was impossible for him to recommend my draft for defense. He said that I "had no idea what I was talking about", that it was so "blatantly obvious" that I was over my head, that I was "saying things just to sound knowledgeable without knowing them". In his many comments, he mentioned that there were areas of my thesis that were "agonizing to read and not at the graduate level". Never mind that he had READ those sections in the summer, but had somehow failed to mention their lack of sophistication. I felt like I had been duped somehow. I felt like he had deliberately set me up to fail. It was like he had opened the door for me, asked me to walk through it, only to trip me and kick me when I was down. He had rejected my thesis. He told me that he would not write me a letter of recommendation until he saw a defensible thesis, prolonging my application into the PhD program. The Dept. said that they needed me to formally re-apply into the program and that there is no guarantee that I will get accepted a second time. My original PhD offer was gone. I had a total breakdown. The Dept.'s solution was to give me an extension to finish my thesis. I had a TAship from Sept. 2012-April 2013. But my advisor's nasty words, and that e-mail had left me paralyzed. Every time I opened my thesis on MS Word, I had an anxiety attack. I couldn't do any work, I couldn't write and edit. It took me about 5 months to finally get over the emotional trauma and get back to work. Present Day: I completely scrapped the 1st Chapter of my thesis and re-wrote the entire 30 pages from scratch. It still needs some revisions, but it is very close to being approved. I scrapped the last 10 pages of my 2nd chapter, and re-wrote it. adding an entire new section, making it into a 47 page chapter. It took me about 2 months to do heavy research and work on the 4th draft of my 2nd chapter. I finally was able to hand it in to my advisor last week and guess what? I got an e-mail from him saying that while there are 'improvements', I still need to substantially work on the main argument of in my chapter. The 2nd chapter, according to him, is still very rough. Oh I also have a 3rd chapter that I haven't had time to work on, because my advisor still hasn't approved the first 2 chapters. The Dept. has said that if I need to, I can request a formal extension on my degree from the Faculty Dean, but my advisor needs to sign off on this formal request. To make things worse, my advisor is going on leave from Sept. 2013-May 2014. He ONLY told me this last week. He's said that he'd rather have me finish in August. So he is essentially denying me an extension and is forcing me to finish this summer. What's frustrating is that I have no idea of knowing when my thesis will be ready for defense. I keep writing and writing, revising, editing, draft after draft, and he still makes me do more edits. So while I want to get this over with and fucking move on with my life, the uncertainty is killing me. I would love nothing more than do finish in August and not have to withdraw in good-standing. But every time I think I have written a strong chapter, he gives the copy back to me with hundreds of corrections, edits, and in the case my lengthy 2nd chapter, more heavy revisions. This has been one of the most stressful, horrendous, anxiety-inducing 2-3 years of my life. It's my dream to continue onto a PhD, I love philosophy and want to teach. But this MA experience has been a very negative one. My hair is thinning and is going grey. I've started seeing a therapist to deal with my anxiety. Here what I know I did wrong: -I chose a very difficult project (it feels more like a dissertation than a thesis) -I failed to do enough background checks on my advisor before I asked him to supervise my thesis. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. But I'm only half to blame, I think. My supervisor doesn't invest in his students at all. He merely writes comments on drafts, and unless you pester him about meetings and advice, he's happy to do his own thing. He had seen me struggling with my thesis in the summer of 2012, but never once did he suggest that I either: a) narrow my topic to make it manageable so that I can finish faster; or stop me and point out that it might be better for me to choose a different topic altogether. I'm frustrated, angry, stressed, miserable, depressed, anxious, fed up, and exhausted. I was burnt out in Sept 2012, and am STILL working on this thesis, making more revisions. But what choice do I have? I am going to aim to defend by August, but that all depends on my ability to satisfy my advisor. My 2nd reader is a much considerate person, but he still needs to read my draft, give comments, and they both have to approve my thesis before it can do to defense. Had someone pulled me aside 3 years ago and warned me against pursuing such a difficult thesis topic, I would have gladly changed it. I would have been in the 2nd year of my PhD by now. This has been the M.A. experience from hell. Ambitious thesis topic + terrible/difficult advisor = a nightmare. Sorry, I said I would be brief but couldn't be. I welcome any comments, similar stories and experiences, advice, and general outbursts of rage in solidarity. Thank you for reading. B.