wooldogg
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Posts posted by wooldogg
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Someone else reported this happening to them with the Woodrow Wilson School, although I think they were told of the "mistake" within a day. I totally agree about complaining to the Dean, etc., although yelling and screaming is probably not the best strategy. Perhaps a little public shaming is in order? Which program was it?
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My 2 cents: don't get another MPP/MPA degree. If you want a PhD, apply to a bunch of programs (10-12). If you're worried about your preparation, take night classes. I don't think a second masters degree is going to help you.
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I'll definitely take a closer look at UC-Berkeley/Goldman, but can you elaborate on why Princeton/Woodrow Wilson would be a good fit? I guess I could have made it more clear in the original post that I'm more interested mostly interested in analysis, which means I'm much more interested in MPP programs than MPAs. WWS only offers a one-year, mid-career MPP (not for me) ... so did you have the Ph.D program in mind?
Take a look at the Econ and Policy track in the MPA program at WWS. It looks like it could be pretty rigorous.
I think Harris and GSPP are the usual recommendations. Carnegie Mellon is supposed to have a pretty rigorous curriculum also.
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Program Applied To: MPP, MPA, MEM, MESM
Schools Applied To: WWS at Princeton, GSPP at Berkeley, Harris at Chicago, Duke Sanford, Duke Nicholas, UCSB Bren
Schools Admitted To: Harris ($), Duke Sanford ($), Duke Nicholas ($), UCSB Bren ($)
Schools Rejected From: WWS and Goldman
Decision: Harris. I couldn't justify the cost of the dual-degree at Duke and I decided I wanted the MPP more than the MEM/MESM to focus on policy tools and to preserve my options down the road. That left Sanford v Harris. Harris offers a more rigorous curriculum which won me over, although Sanford is obviously a very well-run program. For personal reasons, Chicago was a better place to be than Durham which sealed the deal.
Undergraduate institution: Top research university
Undergraduate GPA: 3.9
Undergraduate Major: Econ
GRE Quantitative Score: 770
GRE Verbal Score: 700
GRE AW Score: 5.5
Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 5
Describe Relevant Work Experience: 2.5 yrs policy research at think tank; 1.5 years research with economist. Also some short term volunteer work in South America and one year of travel.
Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): Don't underestimate the SOP. I thought I understood this, but apparently mine fell flat. I have an odd mix of experiences that could appear scattered and I knew my job was to piece them together in a narrative that made sense, but I don't think I succeeded. I also may have been reading too many econ-related admissions boards, where the SOP is more of a dispassionate piece. The policy folks want to see your passion and excitement come through. Be sure to really explain why the program is the best fit for you and use a few very specific details.
Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): I thought they were good but now I'm not so sure. My takeaway is to make sure that they will have plenty to say. Try suggesting points they can make to present a strong picture of you. This is important and I got the sense that at least one of mine was not helpful (although not necessarily bad).
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Tough call. I'm inclined to say go for the work experience-- if you've got a good opportunity lined up. The advantage of going to grad school is waiting out the economy. Getting work experience will help not only (maybe) get into a better program later, but it will also help figure out what you want to do. If you still have the same goals, you will go into a grad program with more focus once you've been out of school for awhile. Those are all excellent programs though, so either way you'll have good options later.
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I'm also deciding between Duke and Chicago. I visited both last week and I basically agree with what's been said so far. Sanford seems like a much better-run program in terms of the actual administration and the career services department. Sanford seems smaller, much more practically-oriented, and a place where you might get more personal attention. On the other hand, it struck me as relatively less challenging academically. My impression is that it attracts a less quantitative group and the core classes might be less helpful if you already have a strong stats/research background.
I'm choosing Harris because I want the strong quant work and the chance to continue with higher level quant classes after the core, which doesn't seem to be available at Sanford (they claim they are but I don't think they are consistently available). I'm also still thinking about a PhD and I think that going to Harris is the clear choice in that situation. But, I recognize that if I choose to get a job, I'll probably have to work a little harder on my own to make it happen than I might at Sanford.
Also, although it's a tangential concern, I didn't like Durham at all. You've got to have a car and there's not a whole lot going on. I'm from CA and I worry about the Chicago winter, but I still think it is a more interesting place to be. Durham is definitely cheap, though.
All said, I agree about going with your gut. Both are solid programs with excellent reputations. The difference will be how you leverage the opportunities; neither will hold you back. I didn't apply to Georgetown because I wanted to get out of DC but I know some Gtown grads. The major advantage in that program is that you get to intern in DC while you're in school. If you know you want to be in DC, there's no doubt that that's an advantage.
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I can offer a few observations about Bren. I know very little about Yale's program or Maryland's, although I get the sense that Bren modeled its curriculum off the Yale program and the Duke Nicholas program. Bren likes to boast about how it's on the rise and it does seem to have built a solid reputation in just over 10 years. I think the program is really oriented to practical training, with the group masters project and group work in general a big emphasis. I was told by someone in the admissions office there that if you aren't interested in doing a lot of collaborative group work, Bren wasn't the right program for you.
If you want to do coastal/marine policy, UCSB would be a great place to be. The marine biology program is top notch and the location is prime for field work and policy work as well. However, I don't get the sense that the quantitative training is particularly intense, and the program seems really science-focused with fewer faculty working on policy problems specifically.
As you probably gathered, cost of living in the area is very high, especially for housing. But in my opinion the SB area is a great place to live (ocean sports, lots of hiking, great climate) and you should be able to get in-state tuition after a year.
Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more. I have a friend who graduated from Bren and is now doing consulting work. He didn't do coastal policy but I could put you in touch if you'd like. I've also been admitted and will attend the students day, but it's not my top choice at this point because I'm looking for a bit more quantitative and straight policy preparation.
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I too wanted to get a PhD in Econ (changed my mind)--and the advice I got from econ profs was: math, math, math, math. You need to take Calc 1, 2, 3, differential equations, real analysis, linear algebra BEFORE applying and you MUST get As. They could care less about the econ knowledge you have. That said, your recommendations for PhD programs are key--and Boston University has top people who you should try and get to know to write your recs.
I've heard the same thing. Econ programs care about math and the fact that you understand what economics is, but not much else. A top program will likely see an MPP as a sign that you're not 100% focused on research economics, which is all any professor at a top program cares about. Take a look at the Econ PhD thread at test magic and you'll find similar advice there.
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I'll paste what I posted elsewhere in response to the same question:
I did make it to the open house. The campus is beautiful, and for someone who went to bland, non-descript commuter campuses in San Diego, I was definitely impressed by the architecture and the facilities. Duke University has money and isn't shy about spending it. Just touring the student gym facilities and libraries can sell you on attending. The staff and student ambassadors were very friendly and really went out of their way to make sure that you talked with people studying in your intended field. As someone who is looking into Environmental Policy, I was practically dragged around during social mixers by student ambassadors to meet and greet with current MPP/MEM and Enviro Concentration students. The "breakout" sessions were also very helpful. Unlike GW's open house, Sanford School held breakout sessions for each major concentration, where you got to hear from professors and current students. There was also a very informative "student life" panel. I can't emphasize enough how friendly and helpful everyone was. There is a very collaborative environment there - exact opposite of more cut-throat programs out there. In fact, group/teamwork is a basic element of most classes.
All in all, Duke and Sanford School were awesome. Any negatives I felt were either about the location (Durham) or based on my mood (exhausted from my West Coast flight and the all day open house). One of my few reservations has been about Durham itself, which on first glance is not an appealing place to live. Following that open house with my GW visit didn't help, since DC is such a dynamic and energetic city. Bad comparison. That said, I had very little time to explore Durham, and no rental car, so my first impression isn't very fair. And heck, the program is only two years long, and I think most of us could "tough it out" for two years in exchange for an awesome degree. If you have any specific questions, please let me know.
Thanks Adrian. It didn't occur to me to look in the other gradcafe forums!
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Anyone? I'm still interested in hearing! Several people have mentioned that they're excited about Sanford, especially after the admitted students day. Why? I guess I'd like to know the gut feeling you got compared to other programs, the intuition that you can't get by looking over a website. Anyone care to share?
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I was unable to make it to the Nicholas School open house. Can anyone who went comment on it? What did you learn that you weren't able to get from the website? How was Durham? I'd appreciate hearing any observations
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I was unable to make it to the Sanford School open house. Can anyone who went comment on it? What did you learn that you weren't able to get from the website? How was Durham? I'd appreciate hearing any observations
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As many of you know, there are very few schools that focus specifically on environmental policy. One can get an MEM with a focus on policy; another can get an MPA or MPP and focus on environmental sciences.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the MEM is more scientific, the MPP is focused on quantitative skills, and the MPA equips students with management skills. Job-wise, how much science, economics, and management skills will I actually need to say, work for the EPA? I'm having trouble deciding which program to choose.
What is your approach to environmental policy? And what made you choose that?
I have also been thinking about this question. I think you're right about the relative focuses (foci?) of the MEM/MPP. But I think the MEM is not only more scientific, but also more management-oriented than an MPP, and thus maybe closer to a traditional MPA.
I'm not sure there is a clear answer here, but I'd think about looking at the specific positions where you imagine yourself. Is your ideal EPA job something that sounds like "environmental scientist" or is it something like "analyst" or something involving "program evaluation"? Personally, I'm inclined to the MPP, because I like the general skills it provides. MEM is a narrower degree, more focused on environmental management, while one could take an MPP in several directions if your interests change in the future.
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It bothers me that schools are not more forthright with the stats. I'm looking seriously at Harris and Sanford right now and neither has good data posted. On the one hand, I sympathize with the Career Services folks because I do think the stats can be manipulated. Specifically, I think programs mix in dual degree students with MPP-only grads and that really inflates salary figures, especially when the second degree is an MBA or JD. I suspect that is what's going on with some of GPPI's numbers. My other theory is that the recession has hit last year's grads hard and that's why the Career offices aren't very forthcoming. For instance, Duke has better data up until 2007 and then it stops. In the end, I think that career placement has more to do with individual performance, focus and assertiveness than anything else.
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Not heard a peep from Yale FES. I just heard from Duke today, I got in there. I check my email every 5 minutes... it is driving me crazy. I also haven't heard from UCSB Bren School, but they sent out an email saying they were running late and it would be next week or later. Ugh. I don't think I want to go there anyhow.
I heard Bren was sending out decisions this Friday. But I didn't get any email from them. When did they send that out?
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Thanks, Stiles. What is the "Advanced track" at Sanford? I haven't seen any mention of it in the MPP materials on the website.
Also, what do you mean exactly when you say people liked the facilities better at Sanford? Do you mean the campus/buildings?
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Very helpful! thanks Paradox
I'm interested in what you said here: "Harris is renowned as a terrifically quantitative program. The reputation of the program is sound, and I believe its reputation is similar to Duke's."
How do you find the quantitative coursework? In my impression, Duke has a less quantitative and more management-oriented program. (I've probably picked that up from someone on these boards.) Do you agree?
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Just got a rejection letter. To be honest, I'm shocked. Must have been a very competitive field.
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stresschicken,
Does that mean you are outside of the US right now? Maybe they are emailing internationally-based applicants...
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Thanks for sharing so much Stiles. Do you have any idea when Sanford is sending out financial aid info?
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Stilesg57,
Did you decide to do the MEM also, or are you leaving after the MPP?
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I think it's interesting that there seems to be a preference for applying to an even number of programs (33 vs 23).
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Thank you for pointing that out but just so you know they weren't until I said something. Best.
Yeah I added JHU MPP and Brandeis after the original post. But that screwed up the order of the questions (moved the 'none of the above' from 18 to 20) and didn't transfer the related response. Which is to say, I'm not gonna add any more programs, such as Cornell.
Harris MPP v. SIPA MPA
in Government Affairs Forum
Posted
Harris would be great for your stated interest. SIPA is not worth the debt. Go to Harris.