purpleperson

I have kind of a similar dilemma. I have two writing samples, one 15 pages and one 22 pages, both of which I've been told by professors are fine as Ph.D. writing samples. But the shorter one has a little less theory in it, while the longer one is chock full of it. Yet I've been told that the shorter one is a more incisive argument. Most of my schools ask for 15 to 20 pages; hence, I could use either. And I'm torn because I really like that longer one having lots of theory, but the shorter one might actually be better. So...I don't know. I'm gonna try to get in two or three more readers of the papers between now and final submits just so I can gauge reactions to the papers. About following a school's directions. I'm inclined to think the vast majority would not assume "you can't follow directions" if your SOP/writing sample/whatever is a little outside of what they stipulated for length or content. Rather, they'd know that most people can follow directions, but not everything can fit perfectly into what the school wants. For instance, I'll likely submit my 22 pages to some schools that ask for 20. I also edited an SOP yesterday to 650 words, unable to get it to the 500 they ask for without really compromising cohesiveness and a comprehensive picture of myself that I'm assuming they want me to try to capture. I probably will just leave it at 650 and hope they'll not scrap it just because it's not 500 words. It's still reasonably short. I don't know about others, but while I'm not completely hostile to schools' requirements, I find myself, at times, feeling like the hoops-jumping, the customization can go a little too far. I don't mind them having guidelines, but if I were them, there'd be leeway on each guideline, provided the applicant didn't go WAY outside of the guidelines. If they are that cutthroat about each guideline, which, when it comes to writing, can be a challenge (and they should know this), then to hell with them. They are simply assholes. It'd be different if they ask for your phone number and you refuse to give them a straight answer. I don't like, sometimes, that I'm even caring so much about admissions to a Ph.D. program. I can see this whole thing really crushing and depressing me in February and March. Therefore, starting January, at which time I will have all applications complete and submitted (even earlier, really; it will be by December 20th, but I will relax through Christmas)...anyway, I plan to start working on my Plan B. I don't want my whole future happiness to ride on getting into a PhD program or not. There are other things I want in life, and I'm gonna put them in motion in January so that rejections don't crush my soul. I advise others to make Plan Bs as well. Put everything you have into these applications, but make a strong Plan B that will allow you an emotional buffer come February and March. I know of two past classmates who applied to 12 and 13 schools and got into none, and both of these women are sharp. They were sort of "stars," even, in school. One made the mistake of applying to all Top 20 (I kind of scoff at her arrogance there; at one point, she had said, "I thought I'd at least get into U.T. (Austin)" (as if UT is some lame-o school for average Joes). But I don't know what the other one's deal was. Maybe she did nothing wrong and just didn't get in. The problem is, every time I complete a good aspect of my application, I get confident. Like, I'll read over an SOP or a Diversity Statement and be so self-satisfied and think "I'm gonna get in..." But then I think...nope. Hundreds and hundreds of applicants are as capable and more capable than I am. I could get into NONE. I'm preparing for that. Don't let the whole thing own you. Create a Plan B!

No, to the comp. lit question. I'm aiming at the Gender & Sexuality Studies cluster. There are others that interest me, but I think I'm strongest as an applicant to that one. Anyway, I started the statement at 1:15 p.m. and I finished about fifteen minutes ago (4:15 my time), so it took me three hours to write the damn thing. I didn't treat it as seriously as I would an SOP, but close. I mean, it's of similar importance, I imagine. I'm about to start their diversity statement. Northwestern requires so much work. It's a good thing for them that they're in Chicago (want to be there) and that one of my professors told me I'd be a fool not to apply there, given my interests. Otherwise, I'd be way too lazy to do all this. Looking forward to my other applications which are mostly just about fit paragraphs for SOPs! p.s. Northwestern even costs more to apply than most other schools. $95 to most other schools' $50. Northwestern thinks it is soooo hot or something. lol. I forgive Northwestern, though. I forgive them, especially if they let me in.

Oh, it's basically a statement which details why you fit in with their interdisciplinary approach. Basically, aside from your "home" department, you have the option to be affiliated with another cluster/field of study that somehow informs the work and research you do in your home department. There is the African Studies cluster, Gender and Sexuality Studies cluster, Critical Theory cluster, Classics cluster....and about ten or eleven others. Ultimately, it's pretty much like getting a certificate in something else. A little less work is required for the cluster, but many people go all out for the certificate as well. In either case, you're getting a degree of expertise in a second area. On their application, it says that uploading a cluster statement is optional. But it would seem that fitting in with a cluster of theirs means to fit in with them in general, so...

I'm working on my Northwestern University "Cluster Statement." Damn you, Northwestern, for wanting people to write Cluster Statements. p.s. later on in February or March, when I get rejected by Northwestern, I'm going to look back on this day in November when I, ultimately in vain, spent hours on a god forsaken cluster statement. Good luck, all.

Also, I would agree that the choices can be a little arbitrary. Admissions committees have the luxury of choosing people based on their own little quirks and preferences. Of course, they're looking for quality candidates who fit. But after they have enough quality people who fit well enough, the final choices can be based on their little quirks and preferences. So if it comes down to a choice between you and another person, and y'all two are about equal with writing sample, SOP, scores, etc, the admissions committee could make their decision based on something as simple as, "I think it'd be neat to have a person from Texas. We haven't had anyone from that region for a while." And then you (the not from Texas person) are just...out.

Here's some stuff I've heard about the admissions process. I have a close friend who is a Sociology professor (Person X) at a university in my city (actually, the same university where I did my M.A., although I'm in English and have nothing to do with her field, nor she in mine.) Anyway, she's a relatively young professor; only 40 now (looks about 34), been a professor since she was 33 or so. She recently told me about how they choose people. And another person I know (Person Y), who is in English and once served as a grad student helper in the admissions process, has corroborated that there are similarities. Person X told me that they take all the applications and group them by GRE scores. So, something like, all the scores 90th percentile and above get put in a pile, all the scores 80th percentile to 89th percentile get put in a pile, all the scores 70th percentile to 79th percentile get put in a pile. She kind of intimated to me that 70th percentile was her department's minimum, that below that doesn't necessarily get a chance. She said they go through all of them, that at the PhD level, just out of respect for the work people put into applying to PhD programs, they look at them all. She said that people in the 70-79th percentile range do still have a shot, as long as their other stuff looks good and their recommendations are strong. When I recently emailed Northwestern, they implied that they would look at applications with scores that are below their "typical" candidate (even pretty far below their "typical" candidate), but that they are going to be looking to see if the other stuff can offset the low GRE or not. So I'm thinking maybe other schools have the same philosophy as what my friend says her department does. They'll give you a shot, but your other materials have to counter-indicate the low GRE. Person X also told me that who your letter writers are does matter...a lot. She says that often they (her department) give greater weight to letter writers they know. In other words, if, when you are talking to your letter writers and they say things like, "Apply to _____ (such-and-such place). I know people there" -- that's your letter writers' way of saying that you'll have some extra clout at that place because he/she knows people there who will then say, "Oh, James Martin is recommending this person...we know and respect Martin, so....hmmm...we'll definitely consider this applicant." It's not a sure-thing, of course, but I have heard from my friend (Person X), plus other people that the department just knowing your letter writer and respecting him/her...matters. She also says, if you can, get letter writers who are full professors. Less weight is given to assistant professors. Although in the end, a strong letter from an assistant professor is better than a lukewarm one from a full professor. However, if you have a choice between two professors, and you think both will write very strong letters for you, but one's a full professor while the other is an assistant prof, go with the full professor. Person X also told me that they (the department), because they go through this year after year, even get to where they know what different letter writers are like. She says that some letter writers' recommendations have little weight because "they just always write good letters for everybody." I think it boils down to that writing sample and SOP, though. I've heard from some other woman on the Chronicle of Higher Education message board that rec letters in general matter less than people think. She says that there's a lot of "puffery" in recommendation letters, and that adcomms know it, and that they don't necessarily believe everything they're reading about the candidate anyway. Grades are inflated, letters of recommendation writers -- because most profs are nice people who want to help others and want to do right by them -- often write about applicants in a way that is more great than they actually are. Not saying people aren't awesome, but letter writers may spin applicants more magnificently than is deserved, at least at their current stage. Whatever the case, I think, in the end, the writing sample matters a lot and so does the SOP. Given all this, I'd say try to apply to places where your letter writers say they know people (and that also fit your interests and where you want to be in general).

The thing that makes me most sick about the whole Ph.D. application process is the cost of the GRE and sending scores. I don't mind taking the GRE, and I don't even mind that I don't do well on it (at least not compared to many others), nor that I feel 'mediocre' as a result of it. That bothers me little compared to the actual cost of the GRE and the subsequent sending of scores. $25 to send a score that isn't actually even "sent," but just "revealed" or "made accessible." It's so disgusting. The only reason I can make myself do it (in fact, have already done it -- all scores are sent, totaling $300) is that I'm forcing myself to see the big picture. Roughly $1300-$1400 for the whole attempt at the Ph.D. thing is not a bad investment for the next five years of my life. I see it as no different from getting some professional certification for something that you want to try. When i look at it that way, I'm not bothered by sending GRE scores at all. But if I actually think only about ETS and its charging people $185 for tests and $25 to send (per school), I'm sickened. I took the subject test and the general test. $185+$185+$300. ETS got $675 from me out of $1300 total that I'm spending to apply to about 12 to 13 schools. It's disgusting! I think the tests should be $120, tops, and the "sending" should be $15 tops. Neither should be even that much, but those are rates at which I wouldn't complain.

I think it's pretty low to agree to write a letter for a student and then to write either a negative one or a lukewarm generic one. The former is worse than the latter, of course, but I think both are pretty lame. A letter doesn't have to be off-the-charts glowing, but I would say on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the strongest letter, it should at least be a 7 if you've agreed to help the student get into grad school. I think the best thing for a professor to do if he/she doesn't want to write a letter, is to either flat-out say no or ignore the request altogether (assuming it's an email request.) To me, there's nothing wrong with saying no or ignoring the request. If you say yes, though, and then sabotage the student, however subtly, you're just a jerk. I've only ever asked four people for PhD app recommendations, and all four said yes, although I ended up not needing the fourth. But I have asked for LORs for something different about a year ago, and a few of the people (3, in fact) just ignored my request, while three others said yes. I suspect, in the case of the ones who ignored me, that it was more because they had no time and just hadn't seen me in forever, and didn't feel any obligation, than it was that they wouldn't endorse me, as I had a decent relationship with all of them, at least as much so as I had with my LOR writers who have said yes. In general, I feel really lucky with my LOR writers. They're all full professors in my field; one has a star-quality reputation, while the other two are strong. All three have been supportive, never ignored an email, never seemed annoyed, never not helped me. I'd be shocked if any of them flaked out on writing a letter for me. All three of them have even connected with me without my prompting them, to make sure everything was on track. It's not, however, because they think I'm a star or anything. In fact, one of my letter writers believes I have no chance at top schools or even 2nd-tier ones, but does think I have some chance at 3rd or 4th tier schools. I think it's just that 1) they're good people who if they say they'll do something, they'll do it, 2) they maybe like that I asked way early (back in March for one of them, late August for the other two), and 3) they can tell I'm super committed. So...I know I'm bragging about feeling secure about letter writers....lol...but it's nice to feel secure about one thing, as my GRE score is mediocre, my subject GRE is horrible. Also, even though I trust all three letter writers, I don't know that all three letters are going to be "great." I think one of them, in particular, might only write me a 6 or 7-caliber letter. I'm just speculating. But I'm confident that he's not going to write the negative or completely generic one, and that's all I ask.

I think most places have people of all ages in PhD programs. I think they view older people as a good balance for the inexperience of the younger people.

Yeah, it's hard to know what is meant by being able to eliminate answers. Not sure if that was supposed to mean with absolute certainty or something other. In any case, I won't be re-taking. Actually, I can't re-take. Do you all think one should "explain" low GRE subject scores somewhere within one's application, or do you think it's one of those things that is better left ignored and not commented on? And when I say "explain," I don't mean make excuses. I just mean some simple statement that I believe my general knowledge of literature is better than what my subject test score indicates. I wouldn't put down the test or say it was anything negative. Thoughts?

1) 1/2 of my applications are opened up 2) letter writers are in the bag. i could be wrong, but I don't see them as the types to flake out at the last minute. I have frequent in-person contact with all three and none of them have ever ignored an email from me. I trust them all and they're all full professors. I'm happy with them as my letter writers as far as their reputation. I do not, however, know what they're going to say about me! 3) statement of purpose is complete and i'm happy with it. will be customizing for each school as I finalize the school's application. that will be time consuming, but i've scheduled a whole day for each school. 4) i have two writing samples. the first is complete and i'm happy with it. will be polishing the second one tomorrow. both may still get tweaks between now and final submission time, but they're by and large complete. 5) All GRE scores sent

I don't know the details of how it's done (as the person above does -- that's awesome), but to the OP, I've had the same concern in the past. Of late, though, I've reminded myself not to worry. Obviously people take the GRE at various times throughout the year and presumably send their four free ones at the time they take the test. Application season is mostly in December to January/Feb -- other times periods, too, for various programs, but generally December to January/February. I figure there has to be some system whereby your score isn't wasted. Likewise, these universities probably know full well that students can't open up applications for every school before they take the GRE or even necessarily in the time immediately after. I've been working on opening up applications, but I've only got half complete at this point. I have a job and a social life and have to sleep. Those apps will get opened, but on a schedule I set. I sent my scores already, though, and am just assuming that schools know what to do. If they get a score from me, it means an application is probably forthcoming. If one never arrives, then I changed my mind. But it doesn't hurt them to hold onto the score until it's obvious I'm not applying (after the deadline). It's not as if it's taking up space, as the person above said. It's just something they have access to by logging into something or other. And these schools have automated systems, too. I'm sure there's all kinds of software that does these things automatically that we just don't know about.

Mine's a lot worse than that. Mine's a score that says I know nothing about literature. Which is strange because I know plenty -- at least in conversations with other literary friends, I'm not dramatically different than they are in terms of general knowledge of theory, time periods, or basic ability to interpret texts. But perhaps the scores don't lie...I'm just...a low-scoring subject test GRE person. I did skip a lot of questions, because I was told you were supposed to if you weren't able to eliminate any answers. Anyway, I'd be more freaked out if I thought the Subject Test GRE mattered to most programs. But most I'm applying to don't require it. The ones that do...well, I'm hoping they don't care much about it. Most of my classmates say they bombed it and got into programs anyway, but then again, I don't know what they mean by "bombed." They could mean they got a 600.

Bunny, I heard back from Northwestern. A very gracious, kind email. I don't think I'll detail on here what was said, but the take-away is this: you should apply there with your 158 Verbal. Good luck to you!

I just got my score today and suffice it to say that it is HORRIBLE. Lower than any person in this thread posted as their score. I really hope the subject test score doesn't matter much.

JLRC, I only meant that I don't need to apply there in the sense that I have plenty of other places (10+) to apply to that also qualify as good fits and are in cities I like. It is not as if I planned to apply to a bunch of places that are of questionable fit and location-desirability but completely neglect a place like Northwestern that fits me well and is in a city I like. But I will likely apply to Northwestern. It's good to hear people say give it a chance. I think you are all correct.

Bunny, I'll let you know. Incidentally, I was just on their website and have discovered that they're not as impossible as I'd been thinking. At least according to their website, they get about 280 to 350 applicants a year, not 500 to 700 as I for some reason said.

My gut feeling is that 158 is too low. It's not that I think they put so much weight on the GRE, nor that they even consciously want to. But with 500 to 700 applicants (that's what I hear), there are going to be a lot whose GRE scores are 160 or better who also have a good writing sample, SOP, letters, GPA. I might apply there anyway, just so I never have to wonder "what if...?" But my gut feeling is that I'm throwing money away just to not have to wonder that, not because I really think I have a chance at getting in. Such is life!

I just sent an email to Northwestern and asked them straight-up. Of course, if I hear back from them at all, it probably wouldn't be until Monday at the earliest. But...I hope I do hear from them and that they are straight with me. They probably won't be. But an applicant can try....

Thanks for your thought on the matter! I'm not strapped for money or time, but nor am I rolling in either. Anyway, hopefully I'll hear from others as well, because I'm very likely going to go with the consensus on this.

Northwestern is a great fit for me, based on my interests. A professor even told me to check it out. However, my Verbal GRE is 158, and their site says that their viable candidates have 166 Verbal, typically. People on this board have said things to the effect of "there's wiggle room" (at NW w/ regard to GRE scores), but I'm thinking that wiggle room means 162 could cut it, but 158 maybe not. And I do know the motto that "anything could happen" and "you never know." But I want to balance that with a degree of practicality. I just want to hear whether you'd risk it or not. I don't *need* to apply to Northwestern. In fact, I have no particular desire to go there other than that it's in Chicago and that, being that I was told it's a good fit for me (and it is), and going with the idea that fit matters a lot, it seems like I *should* apply there. But...so...what would you do?

The school where I did my M.A. in English ranks in the 90s for their PhD in Literature, but # 4 for their PhD in Creative Writing. So yes, it varies. A bunch of people who got their PhD from the school where I did my M.A. got jobs at universities. Not fancy or well-known ones, though. They are mostly in small towns at relatively unknown universities.