samjones

a student may have access to the letter before it is sent in regardless of this right because the right has nothing to do with the letter being seen before it is sent in. the right has to do with whether the student will see the letter after they have been admitted into the school and enrolled for classes. it would be illogical to assume whether a student has seen a letter based on that student's decision to waive or not waive their rights to see the letter later on. many students who choose to waive their rights may have actually seen their letters before it was sent in or some other time in the process. the right we are discussing has nothing to do with seeing the letter at anytime other than when the letter has become something filed in your student files at the school to which you are admitted and enrolled. the right is about whether you want to see the letters that probably helped you get into the school you're attending. and that has no connection to whether or not you may or may not have seen the letters before. a straw man would be trying to divert attention from the topic. i think i have been on topic as the topic is waiving or not waiving your rights to see the LOR letters that helped you get into a school. also, the situation is whether the student wants to read the letters after they have been admitted and enrolled because that is what the right pertains to.

again, i haven't told anyone not to waive their rights or suggested they do anything. i'm expressing that i think the reasons given to waive rights have been ridiculous. all the points that you highlight to show that i don't care what people think all refer to me not caring what people choose; not to me not caring what people think. i've already explained why i think these are illogical but i will do it one by one (and yes, they are from the website you cited)- 1. The evaluation may be more candid if the writer knew that the student would not see it. As a result, more weight may be assigned to such letters. (why a prof care that an admitted student would see a letter after the whole process is said and done? that makes no sense.) 2. The student has nothing to conceal. (the student still has no control over what the writer has already written almost a year after the letter has been submitted and adcomm-reviewed.) 3. The student is not determining that the recipients are receiving full information or is using other methods to make this determination. (again, the right to see the letter has nothing to do with the student's ability to control what is written. the right only gives student a do ahead to see the letter after they have been admitted and enrolled.) 4. The student did not feel it was necessary to review the letter before it was sent. (what? the right only pertains to the letter being student-reviewed after the student is admitted and enrolled and no time before the letter is sent.) 5. The student does not feel a moral obligation to exercise his/her civil rights in this way. (so students should feel like they shouldn't have rights? that's probably a good start to a really healthy relationship with academia and being taken advantage of as RAs, TAs, and such. great.) also, the same source you quoted is one of many that have given the positives of retaining your rights. contrary to what you have states, it didn't strongly suggest one way or the other.

i didn't realize telling a professor about the process was beyond the realm of possibility for a student, whether they be from the US or not. and uh, everyone has to think about who they choose to write letters. this is one of those decisions that are definitely conscious and make everyone think and over think. and i don't know what scientists studying rationale have to do with that- if you've gotten as far a choosing someone, then you went through a thought process with that. and where do i say i don't care what others think? i say i don't care what they choose, yes. and if you actually read the whole post (ha. kind of ironic that YOU accuse me of not caring what others think when you can't take the time to read an entire post before responding to it. ha!) you would know that i don't care what people choose but i am concerned about the arguments presented of why one 'should' waive their rights. everyone must make their own decision but i don't think it should be based on something illogical. you might have gotten a clearer idea of where i'm coming IF you had read the post, though. modernity, how do you know that it's expected that one waives their rights? has there been some sort of survey of adcomms and LOR-writing profs?

I don't care what you choose and why you chose them. I am only interested in shedding light on the fact that it doesn't actually matter if you want to see the letters that obviously weren't bad enough to keep you from getting in. i am interested in letting people who are applying this year know that it most likely will have no effect on the content or quality of the letters written for them. and what is this worst case scenario? what are you paranoid about? that your prof is ignorant/unfamiliar with the process? that the profs of the institution you're applying to are just as ignorant/unfamiliar with the process? are you sure you want an LOR from them then? are you sure you want to enroll in that school then? there's a crazy person on the adcomm?? one unfamiliar with the process? well, if they have made it on the adcomm i bet in the discussion with the other adcomm members the truth will be revealed to them and they will soon understand what it really means not to waive your rights to see letters. i'm sure someone else will know the real deal about the letters. what professor fears their students? what professor fears what their students will do if they know i mentioned some small disparaging thing that didn't prevent them from getting into the school they've now enrolled in? i can't think of any reason why a professor would give two rocks about what an admitted student thinks about some honest reflection about their work, character or academics, especially since the student is admitted and enrolled anyway. it makes no sense and i think spreading senselessness around is ridic, honestly. just ridic because they make no sense. i think we can give professors the benefit of the doubt that they know the process and don't fear their students, especially students they've agreed to write for. i don't actually care what people choose- opt not to see it or opt to see them! who cares. but the reasons given to opt not to see it are just ridic and i just wanted to express my opinion on them. and it's not about checking to see if they will write nice things- everything has already been said and done and the student can't do anything about what they've said anyway. but one might want to see their letters because they may get to confirm what their strengths and weaknesses are. that student may use that information in their new graduate program because they not have the chance to exploit their strengths and improve on their weaknesses. reading the letters that helped you get into a school may even help you know what the school/department may have liked about you and you can work to make sure that those qualities are something you keep around and/or strengthen during your graduate studies. reading letters after you've gotten into a school isn't about checking up on whether a prof liked you or not- because it won't even matter at that point really. but it may allow you to have some insight on what kind of student/colleague you have been and how you may want to cultivate or improve that perception while you're in your new program. also, it's just the status quo?? what? the state of affairs is that profs and adcomm members are ignorant/unfamiliar with the admissions process?? um, okay. professors are a long time out of middle school, so i doubt a prof would use an LOR for an opportunity to ruin a student's life... because it's unethical and they are grown ass adults. also, a student probably should know better than to be unaware that they don't have the best relationship with one professor as compared to another professor. i'm betting a student is able to discern what terms they are on with one prof. over another, and they will be aware enough to know to ask the prof they have a more positive relationship with for an LOR. it's what the whole decision-making process is all about. we are all capable of doing it. we are all capable of weighing who will be our best choice to write our letters. and i think it's safe to be unafraid of profs' ignorance about the admissions process.

No one is saying that the LOR writer is going to write only about rainbows and puppies. and of course some LORs are better than others- that's how one person may get in over another person. An LOR writer probably won't care one way or another what some student thinks what they say in an LOR. what's a student going to do? not ask them to write next time? if that happened, why would an LOR writer give damn? how would they even know? besides, if the student is reading the letter, they're probably happy about whatever the prof wrote anyway because THEY GOT IN!! woohoo!! who cares about one small comment about a late paper when the prof said it was written better than rainbows and had the content of adorable baby slobber. again, an LOR writer wouldn't agree to write for someone if they thought they had more bad to say than good, and i'm sure a professor isn't going to be easily intimidated by the fact that a student will get to read a letter IF she gets in and only AFTER she enrolls. and like someone else said, i bet they don't even blink twice over it because they're busy enough not to care. and blowing up realms of possibility could lead one to never leave the house and/or to scaring other applicants into having illogical fears and beliefs that they could at all affect the content of a letter by retaining the right to read said letter AFTER they have enrolled in their new school.

an LOR writer probably wouldn't agree to write for you if they thought they wouldn't be able to write you a decent/helpful letter.

if an LOR writer refused to write for someone because a student wanted to see their letter, then that's so stupid of the LOR writer. they should know that the student will only be able to see the letter only if the student is admitted to the school they're applied to and/or after everything has been said and done. it's not like the student ever has a right to demand to see the letter before the LOR writer submits it. also, most people know that an LOR writer will only agree to write a recommendation for a student they actually like/feel confident about. an LOR writer scared that a student will see that they wrote something disparaging wouldn't agree to write a letter.

if your LOR writers know anything about the process, then they should know not waiving your right to see the letter: 1) only matters IF the student is accepted and enrolls into the school 2) the student will only be able to see the letter AFTER they are accepted and enrolled into the school this does not require them to show the letter BEFORE you have applied. this does not require them to show you the letter AFTER you have applied. it just means you'll be able to go to your new school's office and ask to see the application materials that you got you into the school. i didn't waive my rights to read the letters for any of my schools or for any of my LORs. i got into all the schools i applied to last year. again, not waiving your rights to see the letter only means you get to see the letter AFTER you have been admitted and enrolled. and it's in the office of the new school that you get to see it; it's not something that's between you and your LOR writer.

so it looks as if you're going to be going with the "start the SOP with an anecdote" route, which is common enough but you have to choose just one! right now, you have too many anecdotes and not enough of: a description of what particular topics/interests you'd like to pursue while in graduate school; what makes you prepared to start that exploration; what makes the school(s) you're applying to a good fit for helping you further develop; and what you might do with your graduate education beyond the particular topic/interest you will choose to write about. look at the prompt(s) for the schools you're applying to, try responding to each part, and maybe that will help you write something more suitable for an SOP.

I didn't send you a message- i'm harborafternoon. and yeah, i'm looking at American Studies at NYU- I'm really just looking at schools in the NYC area because I want to stay here for awhile longer. I'm surprised that it's been hard to find folks interested in urban studies in the US/North America! It has seemed to me that urban studies is the popular interest if they're not looking at hominids! lol. but yeah, i was talking to someone about interests and regions and trendy popularity and it seems Africa (and I guess Asia) are the new Latin America.

coyabean- thanks for the info! I'm still really excited about CUNY because of the prof and student interests that I've seen on the website but also... they house the only prof who has responded to an email I sent to get a feel for the program, what kind of work they're doing and if they're taking students next year. He's been really awesome and helpful- even volunteered to look at my SOP and CV and then gave me some great constructive feedback on it and personal anecdotes related to my research interests. I realize that's no guarantee that he or anyone else will be as friendly and helpful once i'm a student but I haven't found that many programs with so many faculty members working on and teaching so much of what I am interested in. Well, anyway- I am a member of the lj applyingtograd community and I was really impressed by your research interests and SOP. I enjoyed reading about your perspective! I've got a lot of work to do on my SOP myself and yours is one that has set the bar for me! I saw your brief intro above- I also come from a non-anthro background (Poli Sci and Sociology) and I can't wait to start integrating my background into the world of anthropology!

I'm applying to CUNY's anthropology program for Fall 2010. I took the GRE's last year and so I'm focusing all of my energy on the SOP and my writing sample. I'm interested in non-profit funding and social movements- yeah, another cultural anthro person. Anyone know much about the CUNY anthro program?

I have a very short list of programs I am applying to next year and the American Studies at NYU is one of them. I hardly ever see any topics on American Studies so I thought I'd start one! Who else is looking at American Studies programs? Anyone have any impressions and/or "inside" knowledge about the program at NYU? Cheers!