quickoats

Hey guys! I need some help/advice here! I'm now in the transit between graduating from one (M.A.) program and starting a new Ph.D. program in another university. But something went on (illness during writing the thesis) and I couldn't graduate from my M.A. program on time. I could drop from my M.A. program and start my PhD program without the MA degree since it is not a necessity for enrollment; or I could defer admission from the PhD program to the next year and finish my M.A. first. But I'd prefer not to do either way. I don't want to give up my M.A. degree since I've put a lot efforts in the thesis project. More importantly, dropping out from the program will disappoint (more possibly piss out) my advisor, and will affect my academic reputation at the beginning of my career, which is terrible. I don't know if it is possible to defer admission from the PhD program. Even if so, the funding originally set for me must be rearranged and I'm not sure if I could still be funded next year. It seems either way my academic reputation will be damaged.. One way to resolve it is to speed up my graduation. Our program does not require an oral defense. Not having an defense could save a few weeks. I wanted to negotiate with my advisor about the possibility of not having a defense, but I doubt she will accept it or even get angry with me. so I haven't (dare not) talk to her about it. I also haven't told professors in the PhD program that I haven't graduated and may need to defer admission. I was hoping I could do it on time without they knowing it. So, what should I do now? Should I talk to my advisor first? Should I inform the PhD program now? Should I give up the M.A. degree or should I defer admission from the PhD program despite of all the risks I mentioned above? BTW, I'm an international student, which means I need to have my F1 transfer from one school to another. Anyone knows if I can work on my thesis in one program (with the F1 in this school) and meanwhile start PhD study in another school (and transfer F1 to this school after I have attended to this school)? I have asked this to the PhD school, and there is a deadline for late transferred F1 on early September. I don't know if I couldn't manage to graduate and transfer my F1 before that, what will happen. Is it a rare case that one hasn't graduated from one program before starting another? I assume since there are a lot of people running after schedule in their supposedly-five-year PhD programs, it should not be uncommon for one to do the same thing in the two-year MA programs...What people usually do in this case? Anyone has any idea what I should do? Any opinion is appreciated!

Very similar things happened to me (not explicit "you're a master" though but I know it's the hidden line). Browsing through this forum, I noticed how many people are thinking about quitting mainly because of their advisors. Is it a shame to lose many talents in academia solely because of some hard-to-get-along-with advisors? Or it is just a part of the training for a graduate students, or an adult, to become mature by standing against setbacks and only those who make it could be called "suit for the world".

Thanks Andrews! As I mentioned before, my situation is a little bit complicated and I'm not in a group/lab and not really have any senior group member to turn to. But I will include this in my decision making process in choosing the PhD program. Since many people do encounter and know of such hand-on and hand-off advisors, I come to believe that it's not about my advisor but the comparability between us two. I now know better what kind of advisor I want to work with (=being productive and comfortable when working with) and again, I will take this into consideration when choosing programs. As for the definition of "hand-holding" vs. guidance, I'm still not sure and will try to find out my understanding in my future study. I believe I value independence and freedom as much as being supported and I think I have shown abilities to work in such a way.

Thanks! It's at least emotionally encouraging. I know some departments/programs have this generally friendly, close and cooperative atmosphere. Some others are less so and it depends on different advisors. I had heard some not-very-positive words about my advisor before I came to her and I could see signs from her students--when being asked in a presentation, one of the students couldn't even tell why the things she's working on are meaningful. But I know some other students in my program received great help from their advisors (despite that this is an interdisciplinary program), some have group meetings every week, some cooperated with their advisors to produce several co-authors, and some have their advisors help with their research in a real hand-holding way--and it seems perfectly fine with the professors. I DO think I don't like this mode. I appreciate independence and freedom as much as being helped, respected and valued. In fact, I changed my research design (in a big way) from what my advisors had let me do because I thought such a design suited my research purpose better. I agree with bsharpe that it is a valuable lesson/advantage a MA student can learn to know what kind of advisors they want to work with in the process of becoming an independent researcher. Some professors might be wonderful and wonderful with other students, but it ultimately comes back to you and him/her to decide.

Thanks for sharing your experience. And indeed your experience echoed what I have encountered before and had an opinion back then, but I have figured out that's part of the life of grad students. I think there're two more things that I should mention.. I'm not a member of my PI/advisor's lab and I'm in an interdisciplinary program, which means my advisor/committee members/their students come from different departments and mostly have their priority in their department. So I seldom have the chance to consult a "senior group member" because I'm not in a group. It's not saying I don't have friends to turn to. In fact, they're extremely friendly when I seek help from them. But I consciously keep such communication at a low frequency because I know they're extremely busy and, as pointed out by the advisor of one of my friends I turned to--"it's not your responsibility to help her (me)". So I got this feeling of "all on my own" and "no one to turn to" when I got tons of questions (which can be answered not by just reading papers but, I think in most of the cases, from an experienced researcher). Also, I think I haven't built a good method to communicate with my advisor from the beginning. Though I don't know why, at some point, she started to ignore, and later refuse, my request to meet. So I have no way to address my problems and report my progress to her in person, not to mention ask her expectations and explain my frustration. This, combined with my own problems (do not know much about the fields (it's a very interdisciplinary and ambitious study and now in thinking back, beyond my current ability), the procedures, academic norms, and procrastination), largely delayed the whole process, and now I do lack time to finish the whole thing if I wish to graduate on time (a friend of mine got an extension of graduation from her advisor early in this semester just in case things go beyond control. But I really doubt if my advisor would sign anything like this. But this I can totally understand and I really don't want to bother my committee members with a June/July defense). I can tell she's unsatisfied with all these delays and with good reasons. Gradually I grew fear in talking to her and dare not to ask her questions unless is very necessary, and that's why I made a mistake which she thinks should never happen if I had consulted with her first. The thing is, on the one hand, I do get hurt every time she's being harsh on me and refuse/ignore my requests (maybe it is the personality thing. I am very sensitive and have a tendency of desperation. But most of time I can have it under my control). On the other hand, I don't know what counts a small thing or big thing and what in her eyes must consult her with and what are just trivial stuffs that I should never bother her with. The communication and relationship cannot be rebuilt given little time left. And if I were she, I would also think that a meeting about "expectation" at this point is the least important thing to do. In any case, I will hold on with my current study and be cautious next time in choosing advisors. I have several choices at hand and I'm glad every POI I contacted seem so nice and I share with them some real research themes and interests. I do believe I'm passionate in doing research and I'll do my best to adjust and keep pursuing my passion. Thanks again for every suggestions and comments you kindly provided!

(This is from another topic "my advisor is pushing but not very helpful") Now I got totally confused about what my advisor expects from me. Last minute she pushed me to do whatever I could to get things done as quickly as possible; now she's blaming me for doing several things at the same time to facilitate the study and not reporting to her what I was doing and planed to do. I am thinking maybe I AM doing things wrong. But that's why guidance is so important, especially it's my first time conducting such studies. However, instead of giving academic guidance (not hand-holding), she usually either says "you shouldn't do it" with no positive/constructive suggestion (and with very harsh tones), or "you should do it" with no further explanations and is more like a commend that I must obey. I should and planed to learn many things from this first experience so that I could do better in my later research, but I feel all I got were negative feedbacks, and it does not only make me frustrated, but also confuses me even more about what academic research and the academic world is like. I'm now desperately wanting to finish this stage as soon as possible and move to my next stage of study, where I know the professor(s) is/are nice to students and the interaction is healthy and equal. I guess I'm more complaining than asking for suggestion here. But I really wish to know how other grad students interact with their advisors. If you feel your advisors are being discouraging and negative, what should you do?

Now I got totally confused about what my advisor expects from me. Last minute she pushed me to do whatever I could to get things done as quickly as possible; now she's blaming me for doing several things at the same time to facilitate the study and not reporting to her what I was doing and planed to do. I am thinking maybe I AM doing things wrong. But that's why guidance is so important, especially it's my first time conducting such studies. However, instead of giving academic guidance (not hand-holding), she usually either says "you shouldn't do it" with no positive/constructive suggestion (and with very harsh tones), or "you should do it" with no further explanations and is more like a commend that I must obey. I should and planed to learn many things from this first experience so that I could do better in my later research, but I feel all I got were negative feedbacks, and it does not only make me frustrated, but also confuses me even more about what academic research and the academic world is like. I'm now desperately wanting to finish this stage as soon as possible and move to my next stage of study, where I know the professor(s) is/are nice to students and the interaction is healthy and equal. I guess I'm more complaining than asking for suggestion here. But I really wish to know how other grad students interact with their advisors. If you feel your advisors are being discouraging and negative, what should you do?

Thanks for your advice. Knowing it's my problem actually relieve me a lot. I guess I didn't have a clear understanding of the expectation of graduate study before. But I still hope I could meet an advisor who welcomes academic communication. I've met many other professors who love to talk academic things with students and reply long emails to students' inquiry, and I've learned a lot and was largely motivated by them.

Relationship with advisors seems to be a forever topic on this forum. My story isn’t new but it’s related to my graduation and further application, so I really appreciate if you could give me some advice… Thanks! I’m a second year master student in a social science program. I’m writing my thesis and applying to PhD programs. I think I have some problems with my advisor and I’m really frustrated about it. My advisor is not that kind of profs that delay your work. Instead she replies to my emails and my writings very quickly, which I really appreciate. And she’s worried about the progress of my thesis. Every time I emailed her she kept reminding me to get my experiment part start as soon as possible. This is good, since a little push would accelerate my work. But it seems that’s all what she wants to say to me right now, and she always ignores my other questions. She isn’t not at all helpful. When I asked her for experiment materials she is willing to help. But other than that, she seems very reluctant to give further help. She didn’t give me many academic advices on my project other than our first several meetings when I tried to pin down my topic and methods. After that I’m all on my own. When I asked her for suggestions on the experiment design, she either ignored my questions, or gave one-sentence comments that did not really help. She refused to meet with me—simply ignored my requests or brutally asked what’s the point of meeting. In fact, despite that I constantly brought up the issue of meeting, we haven’t met since last October. I’m not sure why she did it: maybe it’s a common practice of advising students; maybe because I’m not in her lab and not her PhD students; or she doesn’t like my project or like me. At least on my part, I sincerely think I need to talk with someone who’s working in the field. I shifted my field when I entered the MA program, and I did a good job on the core courses in my first year. But these classes are far from enough for my quite interdisciplinary thesis project (I chose the topic because it’s interesting and my advisor likes it). I have to learn everything on my own, and it takes time. Besides, without much help and support, I have been constantly getting confused, feeling uncertain about my designs, revising the proposal again and again, which resulted in a long long process of just writing up the proposal and apparently she is not very happy with that. Other members in my committee are also of little help because they are extremely busy and don’t care much about me: usually my email will not be replied until a few weeks after I send it. Besides, my advisor did not allow me to send my proposal to other members before she approves, and without they reading my proposal, it’s very hard to convey my ideas of the design and ask for suggestions. Now I’m almost ready to conduct the experiment, but I have no idea what other committee members think about my design—whether they would disapprove it and come to me after I’ve halfway finished or even disagree with it at the defense. I’m really afraid that I couldn’t graduate on time. This might further affect my enrollment into other PhD program. Another thing that worries me is that I asked my advisor to be my reference when I applied to the PhD programs (I have no others to turn to since she’s the only one who knows my research and I think it might be weird to not include one’s advisor as the reference). Judged by her emails and attitude towards me, I feel she’s not very satisfied with me. I’m afraid this would be reflected in her RL and affect my chance to get in a good PhD program. I’m afraid she will talk about me as being incompetent in conducting independent research, which is not true—I have done several works during undergrad and the first year of MA, though most of them were not in my current field so I didn’t really mention it in my PS or CV (which was a mistake!). I know It might be my pure guess (being panic of both the application and the thesis), but if it is true, how can I rescue the situation? I might never have the chance to talk to adcoms in the PhD programs; but if I do, should I explain to them that I’m capable of conducting good research? Should I mention the environmental factors that affect my performance, like limited faculty resources in our program (which is the main reason I reached out to my advisor and gave up another project I’d worked on in writing my term paper), unsupportive advisors and academic environment in general? Will adcom understand students’ current performance might be influenced by these factors? Will they even think of these possibilities during reviewing the applications? I know I shouldn’t hope too much. It should be my responsibility to find a reference that knows my ability and to explain the seemingly “weakness” in my PS and CV. But as I’ve turned in all my applications, any idea what I should do now?