gazelle

Chances are looking grim, folks. Looks like at this point it's going to come down to people pulling out last minute due to extenuating circumstances.

I'm really curious to know about whether or not people are getting rejected off the wait list, or if everyone is being told they are "among a select group of candidated the committee would like to keep on the wait list." From what people have said in the past, if you don't get on the second round of upgrades, chances drop off dramatically since at that point it supposedly comes down mainly to last minute withdrawals for extenuating circumstances, but no one can be sure. Here's to two more weeks of waiting at least! Good luck!

Hmm, alright so it seems we all missed the first round. I did email Matt to ask for just a ballpark number of how many are on the waitlist, and I just got told "The admissions committee does not share information about the wait list" and referred to the Wait list blog post.

I just got this email: I'm a bit confused--does this mean I got passed over for the first round of wait-list considerations or have they not sat down to start that yet (e.g. will the late May meeting be the first or second wait list meeting)?I'd say the former, but the way it's worded just makes it seem like they had way more acceptances than they initially expected and not so much that they sat down, upgraded a bunch of people, and are keeping a bunch more on ice. Did anyone get upgraded today?

Anyone waiting on the SIPA waitlist? SIPA gave accepted applicants until May 3rd this year instead of April 15th to make their decisions; I imagine a lot of people on the wait list who would've asked for extensions at other schools to see if SIPA panned out probably just passed entirely on waiting for SIPA since the wait listed decisions will still end up coming after most extension deadlines given that SIPA is only now turning towards wait listed applications, though I can't be sure. Anyone still anxiously waiting for SIPA on the wait list? Hoping to hear soon.

Then why did you apply there? OP, ignore this. SIPA is extremely expensive, and probably not worth it, but it's no worse in cost and funding stinginess than HKS or any of the other top programs. It's no less "worth it" than any other top programs--it's Columbia for Christ's sake. SIPA gets a bad rep somewhere, and everyone just perpetuates it, but nobody can substantiate it.

Ahh, ok. So at what point would you have to go to private lenders? Is it possible to borrow $100k+ all on the feds (for purposes of IBR repayment)?

I guess my concern was that if I'm trying to borrow over $100k for two years and there's a federal cap of $24.5k/year, I'd be out a chance to go to grad school.

Forgive me, I've been living quite isolated in rural Japan and just haven't kept up with things. Is it true that with the new Obama bill, there are no more private loans/lenders (Sallie Mae, etc.)? Are they then going to abolish the $24.5k federal annual loan cap?

Indeed it does! I received my packet today, the only class they want me to take is econ (as expected), but no funding But, seeing as my plan has somewhat been to defer from the beginning, not getting any funding makes that decision all that much easier since I'm not throwing any money away so it's not all bad. I guess what I'll likely do (pending a nice long chat with the girlfriend), is defer San Diego not *really* planning on attending next year (but keeping my options open), wait out the SIPA wait list until May, and if I'm not in I'll stay in Japan one more year with the gf and if I am in, I'll have to very seriously decide if the SIPA debt load is something I can handle.

I took a summer intensive course in Japanese in the summer of 2006. It was a year's worth of beginning Japanese (12 credits), crammed into 10 weeks, M-F 4 hours/day. Granted I've been living in Japan for two years now, but still language development is slow. I'm not too worried about getting a B or better in intermediate language courses, you'll be fine. PS, congrats!!

I'm to the point where I'm seriously rethinking the idea of grad school entirely, as much as I want it for myself and think I would like the job. As Bill Gates said in that one episode of the Simpson's when Homer thought he was going to get bought out by Gates, "I didn't get rich by writin' checks!" Again money should really come secondary to personal goals, satisfaction, and career aspirations but again the importance of salaries simply can't be ignored when you are talking upwards of $800+/month, and on a dragged out IBR plan no less. I just don't see myself getting financially as ahead (and thus getting a LOT of the things I want in life--material, travel, security, etc) as I could be with a chemical engineering job with just my current bachelors degree, or especially if I had a company-paid MBA I could do part time to get into engineering management. It's hard to plunge $100k+ into debt for a $50k job when I could stay at sub-$20k debt and get a $65k job now with quick advancement... stress stress stress

Yeah the IBR seems to give favorable payment amounts at first, but once you start putting in various different numbers for the salary and amount of debt, there is definitely an uncomfortable zone where it almost seems regressive (though I don't believe it actually is); if you have an $80k salary, and have $80k in debt, that's a $795/month payment if you are single. Even under IBR, that's enough to make someone puke, let alone a mortgage, a car payment for something dependable, any credit cards, utilities, food, and any little luxuries or household needs. That $800/mo could almost be a mortgage in itself on a small home/condo. Not to mention saving for retirement. If your sole savings is a Roth IRA, which allows $5k annually in contributions, just to save that $5k is going to run you $417/mo. For me personally, I won't sacrifice my retirement fund contributions because of the massive benefits of compound interest at a young age. $80k salary, that's $6,666 gross per month, so figure you'd have around $4000 net (just a ballpark guesstimate, not sure what the actual tax rate would be)--$800 payment, $1300 mortgage/rent (on the very low end, let alone in NYC/DC), $350 car payment (say for a newish Honda civic or something equally mundane but reliable), $600 on cell phone and utilities, $100 on car insurance, $150 on gasoline, $450 on food, and that leaves you with $250 a month. Forget saving much, let alone retirement contributions in a company 401k or a Roth IRA. Is it doable? Certainly. Is it favorable? Not particularly. This assumes you never have any incidental expenses (which of course you will), and zero debt otherwise in any form (which most people have CC debt of some sort). Sure it sounds great to have a $50k salary and $140k in debt with only a $420 payment, but it very quickly begins to seemingly tip the other way as your salary goes up, and IMO, short of seeing a good, comprehensive graph of how the monthly IBR payment changes with respect to your income and debt plays out over time, I'm suspicious of how great it is. $50k/$140k/$420 seems a lot better than $80k/$80k/$795. The latter scenario seems much worse since by the time you are at $80k, that's probably along the lines of when you want to have a family or buy a house, not to mention you are then in a higher tax bracket.

I'm starting to think that if you need to use the IBR plan instead of the standard 10 year plan, then that's probably a pretty good indicator that you are taking on too much debt. $140k borrowed (assuming undergrad loans as well) at 6.8% ends up at $193k, just for a standard ten year plan. The numbers get considerably worse depending on which extended plan you use, and can run as high as a mind-boggling $315k if you use a graduated repayment plan.

Awesome, thank you. Interesting--with a 50k income and family size of one, anything from $36,000+ (up to the $140,000 I tried) is the same payment under IBR--$420/mo. Granted, if you only had $36k in debt you'd be pretty unwise/irresponsible not to be able to pay that off in the set ten years, but it's interesting to note that you could just say "Well, I'm in this for the long haul" and basically be capped at $420 a month (or corresponding amounts reflective of raises, of course) pretty much for life. I'm curious though--perhaps I didn't notice but I didn't see if it said the income values were household or borrower only; I'm inclined to think that is household income, but I'm not sure. Also I'm curious if the major private lenders offer the same kind of deal (assuming they do but haven't checked).

This is something I'd like to know more about; how do you qualify for something like this, and what kind of percentage are we looking at? Also would this negatively affect credit scores or anything (I'm assuming it wouldn't but it's always good to check)

$50k range starting, give or take.

Can anyone in IR pay off $70k+ in 10 years?

I didn't receive any external grant AND have undergrad debt...lol RH7--80k for SIPA seems plenty doable and reasonable, and I would sign on in a heartbeat at that price. What would be the chances someone could just borrow tuition and fees and come up with living expenses on their own by working part time? I know they discourage working, but if it saves $40k in loans...

Not yet; though they are sending it to my sister in Minneapolis, instead of to me in Japan. She only bothers with email at work so the most I can hope is she got it Monday US time and will give me the info Tuesday via email US time (sometime late tonight for me). I also would like to know.

Very interesting. I'm looking here: http://www.ucsd.edu/...e/criteria.html and as of right now I can't see any reason I wouldn't meet the residency requirements for the second year (although, it DOES sound like a massive PITA and it really sounds like The Man is going to approach me with the disposition that I am just there for school and not trying to establish residency, making it seem like it would be a hard road to save that $15k...). I also see the following: "The physical presence requirement will be extended until the student can demonstrate a concurrence of both physical presence and intent for one full year." This seems like it would be quite difficult to get right on all of the residency things right away--if I'm reading this correctly, once I'm there they will want me to show intent for at least one full year as well before I can claim residency, which pretty much means I have to have everything switched over to California status, which would be pretty damn hard to accomplish between the time I would move there (July/August) and the beginning of the school year (the physical presence determination date would be the first day of classes the second year of study, so I'd have to be showing intent before the first day of classes the first year of study). I should also note, I wonder if this has anything to do with the 44% Bay Area job placement, just people trying to live in California a bit after graduation so The Man doesn't come back at them in the future looking to collect out-of-state tuition retroactively. Here's another thing though, and I'll have to look this up more on my own...in the event I deferred, and got married to my current gf, a Japanese national, I have strong doubts with all of these procedures that she would be able to claim Cali residency. She wants to finish her undergraduate degree in America, and loves California so that is/was another strong benefit of going to UCSD, but if she can't get residency the out-of-state tuition and living expenses is insane for just a bachelor's.

Unfortunately don't know much about the IEMP program...I would probably be more interested in studying regional issues, but I could like both. I'm right there with you on all of the above, except I'd be pulling the full $136k in loans, on top of my $20k from undergrad which already is a $226/mo payment. Columbia has been my dream school too, and NYC sounds amazing to me (but then again so does San Diego), and I like the fact that Columbia will likely open more doors particularly internationally. I seriously flop every other day. One day I'm like (this is of course assuming acceptance off the wait list...), "Don't be an idiot, go to Columbia," and the very next day I think to myself, "You'd be an absolute idiot to go $136k+$20k into debt...bye bye house, nice car, hobbies, sleeping well at night, or having a family." While still on another day I think "$45k for UCSD (if I get Cali residency in year two and no other funding) seems like a walk in the park compared to Columbia and it's a good program, go there," and still on another day I think, "Man, that's a lot cheaper than Columbia but it's still $45k and it's *just* UCSD." This is complicated further still by the fact I could just go get a chemical engineering job and make $65k starting, knock out my $20k in undergrad loans, and pretty much be able to get everything I want in life--except that graduate degree. FWIW I'm having trouble finding average starting salaries for IR/PS grads? I know it's not about salary, and that's not why you go to grad school, but let's face it--in the face of this kind of debt salary absolutely does matter.

Here's a question--would any of you go the full $135k deep in loans for a SIPA MIA?

First off, I'll come right out and say I'm accepted to UCSD's IR/PS program (but still waiting on funding info), but only wait listed at SIPA; nonetheless, a lot of people turn down SIPA so there is a good shot getting off the wait list, so let's assume that happens for the purposes of this thread. I'm looking to go into international development and nonprofit management, working in the energy/environment sector (engineering background). Regional focus is Japan. I'm having trouble deciding which one I would choose... SIPA PROS: --It's Columbia --Very highly regarded within Japan, possibly resulting in high chance of getting a job in Japan --New York city --Won't need a car --Good language/regional focus --Large alumni network --Probably opens doors deep into my career long after I'm gone SIPA CONS: --Extremely expensive. Even if I can secure a $20k fellowship for the second year, I still need to come up with $116k, which isn't that far off from $136k in reality. This is years of debt and massive payments, and could severely affect quality of life for years. --Gets a lot of bad press for some reason; I myself have been treated both rudely and kindly through email/phone communication. --Large classes, perhaps more impersonal --No extra chances for funding or TA-ships beyond whatever you may or may not be awarded in funding the second year. Thus it could almost safely be said (at least for me, I won't be getting any $40k scholarships the second year, I'll be lucky to get $20k) that $116k is the absolute best scenario. IR/PS PROS: --Way cheaper, manageable debt. $60k, but with California residency the second year that puts it at $45k at the absolute worst, and potentially a lot less pending funding info and a T/A-ship with small stipend --San Diego --Seemingly extremely supportive of and dedicated to their students, good communication --Good foreign language preparation --Only true Asia-specific IR program --Smaller classes IR/PS CONS: --Not a "name brand" or "household" name in IR --People in Japan have probably never heard of it --Likely smaller salary (though much less debt also) --Need a car --Not New York city --Much smaller alumni network Which would you choose and why? If money was a wash I'd almost instantly take Columbia because it's Columbia and it's NYC, and truthfully I think both programs fit me pretty well. But, IR/PS has a lot going for it, and while I may not get as sweet of a job coming out of IR/PS (though I might), I don't know that I can stomach $140k in debt, on top of the $20k I already have from undergrad.

Thanks guys, I'm pretty happy. Yeah they said I was provisional pending coursework and that they'd contact me shortly, but thanks for giving me the heads up on what to expect. Do you know the dates of those summer courses? I'm on contract in Japan until the end of July, so this could pose a bit of a problem. Also how easy is it to defer? Deferring for a year has been my plan if possible (although I know funding isn't deferrable).