Bastille

Yes, the figure is from the class of 2012. They mentioned an increase in applications of about 20% this year -- a repeat of last year's increase. <br /><br /><br />

For the benefit of future applicants (and stats geeks), the admissions materials handed out on the visitation day indicated roughly 1770 applicants to the MPP, and an admit rate of precisely 20% (something like 350). The mid-career MPA had an admit rate of 50%. MPA-ID materials were not distributed (separate session). HKS has an MPP class size of ~220. This indicates an expected yield of 220/350 = ~63%. Of course, for your career, this is all fairly meaningless!

I think that the advice in this thread is off the mark. For lower-level econ PhDs, sure, the masters from BU might help. For top econ PhD programs, the admissions actually doesn't care that much about economic background (though it's certainly helpful). In fact, if you search around econ PhD advice forums, you will see that the recommendation for transition over to an Econ PhD from an unrelated field is math. Given your specific goal, I would actually suggest taking a year's worth of math courses, well beyond Multivariate Calculus if at all possible. If any of the MPP programs have offered you significant financial aid, they may be worth considering to improve your "roundedness." (Econ ad-coms certainly won't look down on your knowing something about how economics are applied -- policy -- and it may help you to identify research interests.) The BU MA may let you take math electives along with PhD level econ classes. If so, that's probably your answer. Otherwise, register as a "continuing ed" student somewhere relatively inexpensive and have at it with the math until the next PhD admissions cycle.

My personal belief is that these programs are all going to become far more prominent in the coming years, given the massive expansion of the federal government currently underway. During that time, I believe that the curricula will become more specialized, such that most reputable programs will have the entire first year mostly defined, and fairly quanty. (This is because of pressure to focus on marketable skills.) Why do I like SIPA's IFEP track? Simple: it goes into substantially greater depth in finance/econ and stats than most (if not all) MBA programs, especially if one is inclined to complete both the International Finance and the Economic Policy tracks. IFEP has an infrequently published newsletter: http://sipa.columbia...ter_Fall_09.pdf In this, you will see two things that impressed me. 1) a professor essentially making the case that I just did about the rigor of IFEP, and 2) the list of employers attending a private IFEP function. Like, wow. However, regarding the reputation of SIPA versus HKS: given the relatively small number of programs at the "top" of the selectivity pile for MPP/MPA programs, we can compile an impromptu preferences ranking. Consider that, according to admissions department websites, HKS yields about 65% (enrolling class is 65% of acceptance number). At SIPA, the number is closer to 33% -- respectable, but markedly lower. Consider that the yield loss at HKS is most likely due to underfunded cross admits who have been accepted at /matriculate to WWS, and you'll see that most with a choice are likely attending HKS over SIPA. Does this make HKS a "better" program than SIPA? Well, that's why I'm going to visit; I can't say. (It's also unclear, I should note, how big the cross-applicant pool is -- that is, the percentage of HKS MPP applicants who also applied to SIPA. The programs market themselves in very different ways.)

Still waiting. I applied on Jan 7 -- this is the last school from which I haven't heard back.

To be fair, Stiles, while the stats may be imperfect, they are however extremely helpful. For example: consider that Columbia's 2009 grads suffered a slightly lower rate of employment, and that the job numbers reflect a much higher than normal percentage finding employment in random parts of Columbia's administration. Sure, it's nice that the career services wants to hook you up, but did you really go to school to be an executive assistant (i.e. secretary) at a your college? Comprehensive statistics show trends like this, and help one to know exactly what to expect. By the way, Stiles, I really REALLY appreciate all of the helpful feedback / emails about this from Duke's ambassadors. I like Duke a lot, and it's certainly still on my list (thanks in part, again, to the helpfulness of individuals such as yourself). I love the location, Sanford's culture, the clear investment the University is making to improve the program, and the financial generosity (scholarship money, as well as subsidized visitation for all the admits!). One of the reasons have been leaning toward Harvard, however, is the clear assurance that it places into every sector. Stats really do help with this, even if imperfect. Up until recently (I checked last week, and then again a moment ago), Duke had stats only up to 2006. This left me wondering whether something was amiss. But in fact, it seems that Duke has recently placed up some extensive information for 2007 and 2008: http://sanford.duke.edu/career/graduate/placements.php. This all looks very strong, and I am looking forward to visiting next week.

Are you talking about this Mason program?

Oh, don't get me wrong. It will only benefit you in the sense that your Diploma is like owning a share of the company. You buy the share, the company grows, the share is worth more. I.E., the reputation of the school is likely to go up a lot. If, and this is a BIG if, you think that the name of your diploma will still be helping you in four or five years, this is an important consideration. Full disclosure: while I will be attending the SIPA admitted students day, I am highly unlikely to matriculate, given Duke's and Chicago's generosity, as well as the offer from HKS. I am really impressed by SIPA's International Finance and Economics Policy track, however, and NYC is the best place ever. (Outside of Philly, that is. !)

Congrats, ya'll. (Least constructive posting ever.)

So, I spoke with the careers office at Harris, and the woman I spoke with was extremely nice and helpful. I asked, essentially, why Harris posts no statistics about job placement. (The closest is this, which is nice, but not the most helpful.) She said, in response, that Chicago believes that such statistics are not directly comparable across schools (apples to oranges), and Chicago does not believe that these would give students an accurate perception / fair picture. She stressed that this would be discussed at the visitation day, and that Harris has nothing to hide. (She also said that placement at organizations such as the GAO is extremely common.) I also know for a fact that Chicago sees itself (rightly or wrongly) as having peers in Princeton and Harvard, so this apples to oranges bit is silly: "The Harris School is growing so fast that the current facility is not sufficient,” said Raja Kamal, the Harris School’s associate dean for resource development. “Right now, some students cannot find seats in their classes. So if we are to expand the faculty and student body, we need a new physical space to compete effectively with Harvard and Princeton." Given the curriculum's rigor, as well as the U of C's general reputation, I would expect that job placement would be solid. But this is all a bit suspect to me. SIPA, for example, posts extensive statistics, with a very high reporting percentage. And Columbia is at least as pretentious about these things as Chicago. GPPI also posts statistics, though these are less flattering (<70% employment, for example) and have only a few dozen salaries listed, out of over 100 grads. How do you all feel about this? And how would you think placement at, say, public sector consulting would be compared to the International Finance / Economics Policy track at SIPA? Which would provide a greater breadth of non-government employment opportunities? I know that this is all speculation. But I can't get my mind to shut up about it. What are you guys thinking?

My impression is that a significant percentage of the application pool has yet to hear back. Incidentally, they have in recent years past admitted 58% of applicants; I think the major decision making is about fellowships, so I'd not worry if you haven't heard by this point. (This may simply be wishful thinking on my part, however.)

Haha, yeah. I received two emails this afternoon: one about the open house, the other a duplicate acceptance letter. I was promised last week that I'd hear about financial matters this Wednesday, as the council would be meeting Monday (i.e. two days ago). This does not give me a great deal of confidence in the administration.... Anyway, is anyone attending the GPPI admitted students day on March 26? Unfortunately, this conflicts with Duke. And the April 9 day conflicts with Chicago. And Michigan. And CMU. Grr.... why do they all have to use the same weekends?

1:12 am here, central time. The message ends with an optional invitation to Math Camp. Chicago is so nerdy.. I love them. Also, anyone notice that the expected amount of personal expenses (i.e. fun / entertainment) is about $3000, or half of any of the other schools? They know their market!

Congrats, all!! Just got the letter, as well. Any word on fellowships / aid? Edit: Yeah, the email mentions aid forthcoming. I probably should have read beyond the first line!

Evening, Gentlemen. I have done a bit of research, and can tell you a few things. I'll dig up the sources later, if you want them. (Any current SIPA students are welcome to correct me -- I'm just an interested Prospy.) As I understand, in previous years, SIPA has been a part of Columbia's Grad School of Arts and Sciences. In that position, it was sending approximately $4mil per year to fund other programs that did not benefit SIPA -- hence the partially-deserved reputation as a cash cow. As of 2009, however, SIPA has been granted nominal independence, and will henceforth keep its own funds. This, in addition to a big $30 million pledge, will mean that future students will not suffer the same huge debt load. So Columbia appears to be working on this. The University also appears to be gearing up a serious investment in SIPA. In the commencement address from last year, one of the deans mentioned a move to a newly constructed building in 2015 to better meet the needs of the program. My takeaway from this: SIPA is an expensive, but upwardly-mobile investment. Columbia cares a lot about the program, and I expect the degree to appreciate significantly in value. This is why I am considering taking the (expensive) plunge with only my small external grant to help in the first year. Regarding the student debt at graduation, remember a few things. First, yes, half of students have about half of their second year tuition paid. Second, remember that you will have an internship, likely paid, during the summer. If it is anything at all resembling a finance job in the private sector (I imagine there's a fairly wide range, given SIPA's demographics), you will make enough to cover a lot more than your summer cost-of-living. Finally, I imagine a fair number of students come in with some savings, or generous folks, who help to pay down their debt. But yeah, I'm right with you all: terrified! haha.... edit: minor grammar issues. Don't want the ad-coms to see that I can't spell their school's name correctly!

Hey, Stiles. I really appreciate how helpful you've been on the forum. I would really like to accept Duke's offer, but as you could probably infer from my other thread, am having a lot of cognitive dissonance. One big issue for me, is that the career center hasn't updated anything in three years. This is a big deal for me, obviously, as we all want to get hired someday! (I did contact them, and they were helpful in a general sense, but could not provide hard numbers.) Duke looks like it is full of great and interesting people. I am wondering if you can clue me in as to the following: What has been your success in finding an internship? Where has the Sanford name helped / hurt? What percentage of Sanford students attended Duke - caliber undergraduate colleges? How does perceived placement strength compare with GPPI and UChicago? How is Sanford perceived by the other professional schools at Duke (Law, Biz)? How kindly do further graduate programs (i.e. law school, PhD) look upon Sanford's MPP? Thanks very much.

One thing that has bothered me recently is the sense that many MPA candidates feel like second-rate MBA candidates when applying for private sector consulting or analytical positions. I also see a great deal of concern about the size of student debt versus the ability to find a high paying job. An MPA curriculum at a solid program will allow the student to study a level of statistics and economic theory far beyond an MBA student. Consider this sequence at SIPA, for example, which is in addition to the core statistics and calculus-based economics analysis sequence: http://sipa.columbia...curriculum.html Similarly, Chicago’s standard core, which is more policy-focused but no-less quanty: http://harrisschool....masters/mpp.asp There are others. Michigan, Berkeley, and (to a lesser extent) Georgetown. Certainly, some MPA programs require courses in things such as “ethics,” “leadership,” and “project management.” While these are important, I believe that they are best learned “on the job.” You shouldn’t be spending your money and your two years on things you can pick up in your spare time. (This, unfortunately, is why I have serious trouble considering Duke’s offer, despite my love of the school and the generous assistance offered.) But what I am driving at here is that an MPA can be entirely “fluffless.” An MPA student is able to take advanced economic theory, econometrics, and statistics (applied and theory) at a level far beyond an MBA student. How? Here, for you all to observe, is the first year curriculumat Harvard Business School: http://www.hbs.edu/m...mics/term1.html, and http://www.hbs.edu/m...mics/term2.html Fluff! “Marketing,” “leadership,” etc. comprise more than half of the education. No employer will hire you because of your marketing courses. You can learn this stuff casually without any problem. “Strategy” is nice, and perhaps a bit more useful, but still in the realm of “interesting, but I’ll pick it up on my own.” Unfortunately, no MBA program of which I am aware allows one to skip this stuff. What I am driving at: an MBA student will pick up a number of useful skills. An MBA in Finance will have a formidable knowledge-base. But an MPA student can take approximately 50% more courses. With sufficient focus, the MPA will resemble a Masters in Applied Statistics, and a Masters in Economics. This sets the MPA student up for PhD applications (if desired), as well as being interesting. And that’s the last key take-away here. An MPA student likely comes from a background of mature experience. Seeing poverty, desolation, and volunteering to help solve these problems. I can tell you first hand, one of the biggest problems at investment banks (I worked at a bulge-bracket firm in London before policy work) is the utter lack of camaraderie across teams: lack of common purpose. MPA students are frequently constructively-minded, non fear-driven people. While MBA students are taking “leadership” classes and pretending to understand “synergies,” you have learned how impoverished residents of a third world country can come together to supply water and schooling to their children. Etc. And you've probably learned it by actually doing it. (Many MPA programs have super-easy access to short-term projects like this.) Who has the easier story to tell an employer about leadership? Summary: stop whining about salaries versus cost of education. Go to the best school you can get into. Don’t take fluff courses. Be quanty. Be inspired by your incredibly interesting peers, and go out with them on a few volunteer missions to help people. And you’ll have an incredible experience that will pay huge dividends.

If it's of help to anyone, I've found this list of internships from 2007-2008 extremely useful. http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/current_students/documents/internship_employer.pdf SIPA appears to have excellent placement in most sectors of the NY job market. Also, here is a list I have found of what they call "recurring formal" relationships with employers in the major sectors. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/14521270/Recurring-Formal-Programs---SIPA-School-of-International-and I really wish, though, that these lists were broken down by concentration -- I'd love, for example, to see how the especially quanty people place. I'll bet some adcom at these schools has charts that compare such placement between the MPA schools. Would make these decisions a lot easier.

This is why we are all terrified: (worse because we'll all be at each other's backs gunning for a second year fellowship!) Tuition and Fees These figures reflect the estimated costs of the nine month academic year (fall 2009 and spring 2010 terms.) The figures are for full-time study unless otherwise noted. Students are expected to complete four full-time terms to complete these degrees. Master of International Affairs (MIA) Tuition (12 to 18 points of credit per term)$38,272School Fees$1,335Health Services and Insurance Fees*$2,438Room and Board$14,850Books and Educational Supplies (Estimated)$1,500Personal Expenses (Estimated)$6,155 Total$64,550 Edit: That's PER YEAR, and doesn't include cost of living over the summer!

Just got the email! But my word, this school is EXPENSIVE, and no funding. :-( I don't know if it's even possible to live in New York without at least housing paid for?? I totally want to go. The letter states that only a very small portion of first-years receive funding, but that 50% or so of second years receive it. Anyone know what distinguishes this 50%? (Purely academic performance?) Do any of you have a sense for whether this is a risk worth taking? (i.e. SIPA at full sticker?) I want to do an MPA in international finance and economics policy, on the advanced quantitative analysis track.

Yep, CMU is def. still sending decisions out. I got an acceptance letter a few minutes ago. Made my day. I was wondering what you all think about CMU's rather unique curriculum. This is the two-year Pitt track (with more advanced coursework than DC). How do you all think that this compares in terms of prep for OMB of GAO (say, by way of a presidential management fellowship) compared to more "traditional" programs at say Georgetown or Duke? MSPPM Course Requirements The MSPPM core curriculum—reviewed, refined and validated by the top professionals in the public policy arena—provides a solid foundation of comprehensive skills you need to lead an organization to success and address critical social issues. Below is a list of required courses you'll need to earn the degree. Policy Analysis Applied Economic AnalysisEmpirical Methods for Public Policy AnalysisPublic Policy and Management Convocation Management Organizational Design and ImplementationManagement ScienceStrategic Writing SkillsStrategic Presentation Skills Political Science Policy and Politics: An International Perspective -or- Policy and Politics in American Political Institutions Technology & Management [*]Introduction to Database Management[*]Information and Communication Technologies Finance Financial Analysis

It appears that another round of acceptances has gone out today. And I'm happy to say I've tricked them into thinking I'm sufficiently worthwhile to admit. Email states that financial aid information will come out in a week or two. All things other things being equal (i.e., disregarding weather, financial aid, architecture, etc.) I feel like Georgetown has an excellent curriculum, and is obviously very well positioned for policy internships. Do any of you have a sense for the strength of GTown's career office, and for the regard with which GPPI is held within the larger University? (For example, how easy is it to get into GULC classes?)

Dagger, if I might: why did you ultimately select Ford over Sanford? Thanks.

Well, it appears that I am in, as well. Which certainly made me crack a pretty big smile. But I do have a few concerns. First, non of the policy centers (http://sanford.duke.edu/centers/) seem to be at all geared toward the MPP students. Many other schools (Wagner, Ford, for example) actively encourage their grad students to get involved in the policy centers. This seemed like a great way to get a little extra-curricular experience, as well as hone in on career interests. Second, I flicked through a number of the recent articles, and it all appears, well... rather uber-lefty. A recent intern of Ted Kennedy featured, for example (http://sanford.duke....cy_nr012810.php), and an op-ed that made me want yell at the prof for ignorance of the basics of the international job market (http://www.post-gaze...1033820-109.stm). Anyone have similar feelings? This is, admittedly, a pretty basic skimming. And there's a lot about the program that I really like about the curriculum, from what I see in the student manual.

Haha.. yes, well. My Overall gpa is 3.9, major is 3.92, including an award for the best honors thesis in my dept. For what it's worth, I also had a 1600 SAT back in the day, and a 790 on the writing SATII. My problem with the GRE was, I believe, difficulty with long passages and no ability to highlight (as it's on the computer screen). I was hit with a very long reading comp pretty early in the test, which is what I think threw me off. In any event, the plan is to apply with the score that I have, and potentially retake in late January, sending in the new scores while my app is under consideration. My original question was whether late Jan / Early Feb is too late to be read. (The schools indicate decisions send out around mid March.)