sushitooth

Would someone who has an undergrad B.S. in economics and no work experience (besides internships) be competitive in the job market if they receive a Masters of Information Systems Management degree? Would they be able to get a job? Thank you.

I was talking to the Heinz D.C. track director a week ago and she told me that it is not atypical for someone to be hired straight into the GS11 level after coming out of this track. More generally, she said someone would find employment at GS9 in a 2-year training program and then be promoted to GS11 or sometimes even GS13 upon its completion. My question is... (And it would be great if someone spoke from experience or factual knowledge)... How do the salaries go up with these levels? I am aware of the salary range for each level, however, GS9 in D.C. is somewhere between 52k-68k (from the top of my head), whereas GS11 is something like 57k-82k. Well, what I'm afraid of is that while that looks nice on paper (from something like 54k first few years to somewhere like 67-70k a few years later), in reality, how do you think it works? I am afraid to start out at 54k at GS9, do two years of the training program, and then be "promoted" to GS-11 at a salary of 57k. Is that a legitimate concern? Or is it possible to be promoted to 70k or so? Or, if it is unlikely to just be "promoted" (within the same position) up 2 levels, is it realistic to be at the GS9 level for 2 years at 54k or so, and then apply (and be accepted) for a position of 70K at GS11? If anyone could offer ANY insight with relation to this, please do so! How does government promotion work? Is it realistic to expect to move up and have the salary move up from the median of each grade level (so, say, from 57k in GS9 to 67k in GS11), or is the government set up so that, even though the GS level goes up, the salary would rise only 3-4k? Thank you!

I called them and they told me not to worry about it-- that I have gone above and beyond what they are looking for in terms of quantitative, and that a poor grade in an advanced math course will not change their outlook.

Well of course it affected my GPA adversely, lol (not funny). But Heinz doesn't seem to have a cut off, and they only indicated that they would need to see my final transcript to verify completion of my undergraduate degree. But seriously... They can't possibly rescind because of that. I mean, it is all under their discretion, but I would come into their offices and give them a piece of my mind. I took a theoretical mathematics course that students looking to go into a graduate econ or math program take, and I didn't do well... I repeated it, trying to get my GPA up again, but again, didn't do well. Because I got an acceptance from them early, I committed to them and cannot, at this point, attend some other program I have been accepted into (it is too late to do so now), so I feel that if they rescind their offer, that would be extremely unfair to me... Especially since they did not provide any specific condition for me to meet in order to maintain eligibility for their program, besides just graduating.

No, you're fine.

They already accepted me back in March and all I have to do is provide my final transcript to prove completion of my Bachelors. Well, I completed it and graduated, however, my last semester was truly and frighteningly awful (4 of the 5 courses were not part of my degree, and so I lost focus, especially knowing I was already accepted into a Masters). Could it be possible that they will look at the final transcript and say, "Wow, this guy did really poorly... Let's reject him" My intuition says absolutely not because 1.) It could begin establish a pretty nasty rep for them, 2.) It's genuinely unfair, 3.) They lose money. What do you think?

I asked them this through e-mail and they just responded that admitted students will receive an e-mail about switching tracks. They will need to submit an essay about why switching to the D.C. track would be a good choice for their career.

So, I have read on here that once someone is enrolled in the regular Pitt program, that it's possible to switch into the Pitt/D.C. track. Is it really so, and if yes, when should I begin to inquire about it? What steps should I take in order to do this, and are there any certain qualifications for making the switch? Also, does the 1st year curriculum differ for the regular and the split Pitt/D.C. program (since both programs take place in Pittsburgh in the first year)? Thank you.

If someone has, say, 6 years of relevant work experience and then receive their MPP/MPA, will they only be able to apply only to GS-9 positions, or could they apply to, say, GS-11 because of their prior experience? If I had to answer my own question, I would say they would be eligible only for GS-9 (after all, one must have a Masters for that, and the experience needed to be considered for a GS-11 is probably the kind of experience one can only get with a Masters), but could probably end up with a salary on the upper end of the GS-9 level. Thoughts?

Right after I finish my undergrad this April, I am considering interning at the New Jersey Policy Research Organization, at http://www.njprofoundation.org/. Does that seem like a worthwhile opportunity? I have an interview with them later this week. It just doesn't seem like a very prominent place, but do you think it will add to my resume and help me when I search for my mid-Masters internship next year?

That seems like a nifty idea, then. Good point about the timing-- I'll try to get it right. Any idea on my undergrad/grad GPA question. Say, a 3.0 undergraduate GPA in economics, and then a 3.8 GPA at Heinz... That won't cut me out of contention, will it? I know I am probably being absurd, but sometimes I feel like if I don't have full-time work experience, I better have a 4.0 undergrad and a 4.0 grad or I won't be hired in federal government. The other side of me says, "Hey, do well at Heinz, try to do a Summer internship at the fed while in your Masters, and you will give yourself a shot." I hope it's more like that

Flyers, thanks. Does anyone know anything about the Career Intern program? While it doesn't exclude those with experience (past their degree) from participating, it seems to be a program mostly tailored towards for recent graduates. Also, just off the top of my head, I am wondering this: Since most agencies that have Career Intern openings specify that it IS a full-time job and is NOT an internship, I wonder if, in theory, I could apply to a GS-11 job after completing a Career Internship. I am not saying this is the smart thing to do, and I am not saying that just because a GS-11 level required 2 years of experience past a Masters to qualify, that this is a sensible thing to do... But I am saying that is a Career Intern program wouldn't count as "full-time experience" in terms of the government's eyes, I am not sure that's something I would like to do. One other question: My undergrad GPA was not horrid, but it wasn't that impressive. Would you suppose that if I performed at a 4.0 level at the graduate level, they would put considerably more weight on this than on my undergraduate performance? Thank you, everyone, for your responses and the responses that may follow.

Well, I think I should have been more specific. The jobs I am looking at (I was talking about myself in the post, by the way :] ) are policy analyst jobs. If I had my choice, I would specialize in technology policy at Heinz and then work at either the DOE, Homeland Security, or Borders/Customs in policy analysis. If not, I could use my economics/math background and, perhaps, start out somewhere such as a budget analyst. And, except for the budget analyst, I believe those other positions I mentioned would require an MPP (or MPA). I would think if I was going into International Relations, that would be tough to do in the way I described it... Wouldn't the federal government place even more importance on experience when hiring someone in IR? I am trying to bank here on my quantitative foundation (and Heinz's "skills-based" curriculum, as they describe it) to become a sort of shining candidate for work that involves analysis. Of course, later on, I would like to diversify my career and probably move away from quantitative and into management... But have to "get in," first.

Is it possible to go from undergraduate straight into a Masters, such as the one at Heinz College, and then to a job at the federal level? Let's say that there is an internship at a policy research institute between the completion of the undergraduate degree and the beginning of the Masters, and then an internship at the federal level during the Masters. Do you think, then, that a job can be landed? (And, can an internship at the federal level be landed in this scenario?)

May I ask, what other programs have you applied to, and what is your top choice? I pretty much applied to U.Michigan, Heinz, Georgia Tech, U.Georgia, George Mason. Heinz was my #1 choice and I was accepted with 6k/semester funding... Considering that my parents live in Pittsburgh and so I would not have to pay for housing, U. Michigan would have to make accept me outright with more funding than Heinz for me to consider.

Hey, thanks. And just to be sure, what exactly is a wait list? They tell you that you have been placed on a wait list, and this means that they are not sure yet about you, and will wait to hear back from some of the people they have accepted in order to make a final decision on you?

So... If we don't get an acceptance this week, it's a rejection?

MPAs/MPPs from good programs can work in consulting and get paid pretty well.

I just looked at Deloitte's website and found their internships for 1st year MPA/MPP students. It sounds like the dream internship for me. Their requirements are, from the top of my head, an "MPA/MPP student at prestigious university, solid quantitative skills, leadership and interpersonal skills, etc" I don't actually recall most of it. But how difficult do you think it would be to land this sort of internship after 1 year at Heinz? My advantage would be, I suppose, a "prestigious" program and also, coming from an econ/math undergrad background, I probably have the quantitative thing down. My resume is pretty solid. Man, I'm not even enrolled yet, but already dreaming about this type of internship!!!

Hey, I applied to Heinz's MSPPM straight out of undergraduate economics/math degree. I had a 3.05 GPA, 750 Q 580 V GRE. Was accepted on Thursday, with 6k/year. I also applied to UMichigan, Georgia Tech, U. of Georgia, George Mason. Still waiting, but don't really care at this point as Heinz is my top choice (unless U. Michigan offers significantly more funding or something). I applied to Heinz because, having no full-time work experience and an economics background, my professors (I went to U. Pittsburgh, and some econ professors there do work or at least know Heinz professors, some of which are econ PhD holders) recommended a quantitative program like Heinz. They basically told me, "If you want to go into non-profit management or become a city manager, or work in public affairs, you should get work experience. If you want to go into something that has to do with economic or finance policy, you will be fine with getting a job at Heinz without work experience." I was skeptical (and posted on this board about this) and called Heinz themselves. They told me that, in broad terms, it's definitely better to have work experience, but that because I have a strong quantitative background, I will be able to excel in technical Heinz courses (or at least as technical as a Heinz course can get... I doubt I will ever be as challenged as I was in Calc 3 and Theoretical Math...) and a curriculum like this will compensate for my lack of work experience for many job positions. A direct quote to me from their director of admissions is (at least as best as I remember it), "If a consulting company is looking at you, they see you have no work experience, but they also see you did an internship while with us and they see that your curriculum was quantitative... Now, if they want someone to start a position by doing cost-benefit analysis, will they want someone like you, or someone who has had 4 years of experience working at a local mayor's campaign but has never even seen quantitative analysis prior to coming to Heinz? It all varies on the specifics of a position, but you will certainly be looked highly upon by employers, even without full-time work experience." He also mentioned that about 30% of MSPPM students have no prior work experience. Anyways, so that's what I can tell you. My GPA wasn't very good, but I think I impressed them with a good GRE, a great personal statement, solid recommendations (one from abroad, where I volunteered for 6 weeks), and a strong under-grad curriculum (quantitative). My best advice, really, is take your time on everything. I even had my resume done professionally. Everything in my application looked NICE, you know? My personal statement was written over a period of 6 months, my recommendations came from a professor abroad, from an econ professor at U. Pittsburgh, and from a graduate school professor from GSPIA in Pittsburgh... My personal statement read like a narrative, tying in the experience I had with all my professors as integral to my desire to attend Heinz. And I wrote my personal statement like I knew what I was doing-- Like I knew this is exactly where I am supposed to be going. So there. Take your time, and make your personal statement sound like, "Hey, this is my name, this is why I want to study public policy, and without compromise, YOUR program is the one that is right for me." Good luck!

Another thought I have is: Heinz has a separate information technology program and so perhaps Deloitte/Pricewater looks at those candidates, and not the ones from MSPPM? Or MSPPMs receive those types of job offers, too?

Hey, yeah, more info would be great, although I'm a bit confused: 1.) Although Heinz does have a financial management and analysis concentration (which would seem like a good fit for me-- coming from b.s. economics undergrad), it doesn't seem to be rated very highly in finance policy (at least according to the U.S. News rankings?) 2.) Do you think taking a few courses at Tepper would really my job prospects with an MSPPM? I mean, I am getting a public policy degree, after all, and not an MBA at Tepper. When I look for a job (or first-Summer internship), I would almost have to mention separately that I took some classes at Tepper. (My basic thought was: It's great that Wall Street recruits Tepper MBAs, but I will not have a Tepper MBA, because I want an MSPPM...). 3.) When I take some classes as Tepper, would that actually be part of my MSPPM curriculum? I ask because I only have two years there, and it is not cheap, so if I am going to be paying additional money just to freelance and take business courses-- It is something I would think about, but it would be a much easier decision if it was actually part of their curriculum. I guess what I am trying to say is if some Tepper courses, while in my MSPPM, will give me leverage in terms of marketing myself, that is tremendous... But I want to be a little careful and keep in mind that I am going for an MSPPM, not an MBA. --- Other than that... Yeah, I would like to hear more about your experience at Tepper. I am an undergrad at U. Pittsburgh, so I've heard a thing or two about CMU... But have not really gone in depth to find out about Tepper. When did you do your elective there? Why? (How did it fit your educational/career plans?). And what has you interested in Heinz's MSPPM? Well, thanks! And perhaps I'll see you on campus soon?

Yes, that helps a lot! I mean, of course I knew some things about this program and that is why it was my top choice, but now that I have been accepted, I'm very excited and I guess it makes me want to find out every little detail, and your post helped a lot with that! For example, I never knew those tidbits about Pricewater and Deloitte. Since Heinz was my top choice, it will probably be where I end up no matter what. Some other schools I have applied to but have not heard from are Michigan, GWU, Georgia Tech, George Mason, University of Georgia... That was also pretty much my order of preference, too (with Heinz topping all, again). So, I guess I am pretty satisfied! I was a bit worried I would only be accepted in places like George Mason or U. Georgia and wouldn't really be able to build a quantitative curriculum... I would most likely study finance policy in those two places, but with Heinz, I feel like I have a much greater opportunity to build "sophisticated" curriculum. (p.s. - I suppose there is a reason that these places like Heinz, GWU, Harvard, Georgetown, etc. are so expensive, though, right!?) Anyways, thanks for the reply

Now that I've been accepted there... Is it a good school? Should I be somewhat "proud" of this accomplishment? I know U.S. News rankings has it as a top-10 program and #1 for technology policy (although I am guessing this is because Heinz itself features a Masters of Information Technology program which most of us here would not go for, anyways)... But still, I've been told those rankings don't mean much, and so I am wondering if Heinz is really a well-regarded school my employers? I come from an economics background, with some extensive math course work... I was looking for the most quantitative public policy program I could find, and while there are others that I have heard are quantitative (Maxwell, Harris, LBJ), I decided this one was as good as any of those in that regard. I don't really seek a career in Washington (although am not against it). I don't see myself as an "affairs" person so much as working for either a public, private, or consulting company that does policy analysis for various sectors, or a think tank that does research and innovates policy. Do you think Heinz is good for that? Does it look respectable on a resume? Thank you!

Oops, I actually received 6k/semester, not year. It said it is renewable contingent on my continuing high level of academic performance... I take this to mean that I (and you) will be able to keep receiving the award per semester as long as our grades are a B average or above. But mine did definitely say "contingent on continued" academic excellence or something like that, so I am not sure if yours was less specific than that? By the way, I guess a pretty big wave of acceptances went out today? Seems like everyone is getting accepted, hehe