sushitooth

Program Applied To: MPP, MSPPM Schools Applied To: Heinz, U. Michigan, University of Georgia (may also apply to GWU, Georgia Tech., SPEA, George Mason, UGA... But probably not) Schools Admitted To: Heinz Schools Rejected From: (none yet) Still Waiting: U. Michigan, U. Georgia Undergraduate institution: Large public institution, top 50 overall. Undergraduate GPA: 3.10 Last 60 hours of Undergraduate GPA (if applicable): 2.9 - ish Undergraduate Major: Economics (with a lot of non-required math taken) GRE Quantitative Score: 750 GRE Verbal Score: 580 GRE AW Score: 4.5 Years Out of Undergrad (if applicable): 0 Years of Work Experience: 0 Describe Relevant Work Experience: Worked part-time for a local volunteer program, volunteered in Central America for 6 weeks. Strength of SOP (be honest, describe the process, etc): I think it was really strong. I think I am a very good writer (I didn't finish my GRE AW part, hence a 4.5). My SOP not only stated my goals, etc., but did so by literally weaving together a non-fictional short story with plot, suspense, and an implied moral purpose for each individual's existence (and how my Masters will be a step towards fulfilling this for myself). As well, all three of my recommenders were key characters in my SOP. Strength of LOR's (be honest, describe the process, etc): One was from studying abroad... Dude initially didn't actually write a letter of recommendaiton, opting to fill out only the short-answer forms instead. Eventually, though, he decided to write one and email it to them (Heinz) 30 days past the deadline, but he let me see it prior to sending, and it was a gem. Another was from a nationally-known economic professor who, I believe, wrote a very good statement. The third was from a professor from a graduate course that I took at our university's own Public Affairs school... He sent out his recommendation before reading my SOP, seeing my resume, etc... None the less, I think he gave an ordinary recommendation which was probably looked upon favorably at Heinz because it came from a graduate professor. Other: I took a graduate course, and I think this helped. My GPA was a bit weak, and there were a bit many withrawls, but none the less, I think my curriculum (of economics with a lot of optional math) was more challenging than that of the average applicant's, and the fact that I repeated the courses that I withdrew from and did well made my transcript look "fair" (so not "poor"). I also think my excellent SOP, my good recommendations, my professionally edited resume, and my relatively high GRE scores made me look pretty good in their eyes. I know a lot of people post amazing stats here, but I am willing to bet the average applicant has a 3.6, 580V/640Q, not that much work experience, and not a great SOP... So, don't be too harsh on yourself. Try to make yourself shine in your SOP, and it should serve you well! And I don't know why this is in BOLD! I can't change it, either!

Congratulations! (And to everyone else, also!) I also accepted with $6k/year. 3.1 GPA, no work experience at all (still undergrad), but some extended volunteer abroad experience. Though I think my economics major, with a lot of math taken just for "fun" (not required), and a strong Q GRE, is what got me in. Yay!

Do you guys think anyone has been rejected yet by Heinz?

I got mine in the very last day. And had a little fiasco with one of my recommenders filling out their recommendation form, but opting out of doing the actual letter... And then getting the letter in on February 14th, which Heinz told me was received, added to the application, and the application is now "complete". (Though it was marked as so since January 10th since all the necessary materials are in). So my take is... We don't even know whether we have no answers because we were put in the "maybe" pile, or perhaps they just have not reviewed it yet. I think my hope is that it was put in the "maybe" pile, and then the recommendation letter came while it was in the "maybe" pile, and hopefully it will let convince them to accept me Good luck to you! p.s. - I wonder if they have sent out any rejection letters.

So if I did not get accepted or rejected yet, what does it mean? Lol.

No, he is not new, he is just lazy I think. Feb. 15th was the deadline for another place I am applying, and he was online, and he opted (I never asked for this) to send me the letter so I can read it and see if it's proper. It was a phenomenal letter, and spoke about me, but in the last paragraph, it referred to another person (not me). So I told him that I understand he was probably using an old template (he was, he told me this prior) and told them the letter is great, that I don't want to change it, besides making the obvious correction of changing the name of the person to my name. And then I asked him, "But, umm, just tell me honestly... What are the chances that the other two recs you did, for Michigan and Heinz, also used another person's name?" (obviously, that would have been the ultimate tragic killer, recommending ultimately another person who is not me, lol, in my recommendation letter) And he says, "Well, for Michigan, it was optional, and if you remember, I was pressed for time, so I didn't write the letter." I said, containing my anger, "... Okay... And what about Heinz?" He said, "Well, Heinz only had short answers." "Only short answers? No optional letter?" "Nope. I guess they like to just read how a recommender can describe the candidates in a few short words." "Okay... Well, thank you." So, then I emailed another one of my recommenders and I ask him, "Hey, can you recall whether Heinz was just short answer or whether you could attach an optional recommendation?" And he emailed me the entire email that he received from Heinz, about my request for his recommendation. In that email, it *clearly* states that he can attach an optional letter of recommendation. When I called my first recommender to him and told him that there was, indeed, an option for him to include a letter for Heinz, I also took blame for not informing him of this (I just didn't want to argue, since he is still writing more letters for me... At least I hope they are letters), and told him that I had sent him an email with the email address of Heinz, where he could email his letter. His reaction was, "Oh, great! I'll do that." He didn't even express any surprise that there was a letter option and that he didn't notice... Nor did he express any sympathy. So what I really hate, is the recommender who "opted out" and told me that there wasn't even the option of a letter for Heinz, was simply lying to me. Plain and simply. He did both of them the last day. Freaking probably logged in the last hour, decided, "Eh, I don't want to write an entire letter right now," and filled out the forms. And right now, I feel a lot of hate towards him. You know, I asked him for a LETTER of recommendation, and he said he would do one. Doesn't that place some responsibility on him to tell me whether he is writing one or not? And I had even told him that my application, overall, looks pretty good, except for my GPA. I told him, "My GPA is below-average of their applicants. My GREs are above, and I think my SoP is, too. If I could just come through with strong recommendations, I think that will go a long way towards an acceptance letter from them." So he knew how important of a role he was playing... And he basically just let me down. I mean, if someone asked me for a letter of recommendation, I couldn't imagine pulling something like this. If someone is asking me for a letter of recommendation, if I do agree to write a letter of recommendation, I take on a certain responsibility. Even if I do not like the peson I am writing a recommendation for, I am morally responsible to do what I said I would; or to turn down the offer.

Well, so today, I called Heinz and explained to them what happened, and also informed them that my recommender would be email the actual letter to them over the weekend. They told me that if my application has not yet been reviewed (they said 50% chance, especially due to the blizzard holding things up almost a week), or if the review process has just begun, the letter will get to the committee. However, they told me not to worry about it regardless, because having recommenders only fill out the form is "pretty standard, we see it very very often." I told her, "But as an admissions committee looking at the application, and seeing that someone has decided to fill out some short-answer questions but not write an actual letter for me, doesn't that send a less-than-resounding message about me?" She says, "You knok...no-- Again, we see it all the time. Professors, especially during the year, are very busy and that is why we let them do the form only as an option instead of the short answer. To be honest, I do not think whether the committee will get the letter that he sent over the weekend or not will have much an affect on your decision, as long as he did fill out the recommendation form." Wow? Maybe Heinz is more technical and does not care so much? And they did not know who I was, so they couldn't have been implying, "Hey, your app is great/sucks either way, one letter won't change a thing..." Interesting.

Sweet. Maybe since it said, "rather than the forms," or whatever, it's not the worst thing in the world. Oh well. CMU is my fault, since it said that on the website and I myself didn't notice where it said that. I sent Michigan an email asking if they will accept a super-later recommendation letter. It's funny, because Michigan contacted me a week ago saying one of the recommendations was missing and that I have until Feb. 15th to get it to them, and I asked them to double-check, because on my status page it said that all the recommendations had been "completed." They said that, indeed, they did make a mistake and found the third recommendation. But now... I wonder if they were checking it, and found it so surprising that someone decided to opt out of writing a recommendation, that they figured it was "missing" completely, lol. Little did they know... That there was just an "opt-out."

I always thought that a federal government job referred to the national level, as opposed to state? Is this incorrect? Because I've seen advertisements such as, "Find federal state jobs." Either way, do state government employees work on a different pay shedule than the familiar GS one? Or the same? If I am being employed by the State of NY, for example, should I be looking at the GS scale or no? If no, how can I find information on state government pay? Thank you!

How does the state salary scale differ from the federal one? And what do you think of Georgia Tech in terms of the policy analysis concentration? That is the one I would be going for.

I mean, I feel like it's my responsibility anyways... Or if something like this happens, then it's my fault for finding a recommender that doesn't care enough to not mess up like this... But the thing is, this guy is SOLID. He had plenty of times, and our relationship is really one of friendship pretty much. I basically think that 999 of a 1000 people, if they worked with this person like I did, they would have also asked him for a recommendation, and they would also expect 100% for it to be completely great. But this was just ridiculous. There are no indicators that he doesn't care about writing one for me... We've discussed these things diligently, we've discussed my career aspirations for hours upon hours on the phone (because he actually took great interest, since we've worked together and may again one day). And this? I can't believe it, dudes.. Cannot.

One of my recommenders just told me that for his Gerald R. Ford recommendation, "They had a set of questions, and an option recommendation letter... I was so rushed in doing that one, I didn't do the optional recommendation letter because I was afraid to run out of time." !!???!?!?! I'm not even blaming him. And he IS someone who thinks highly of me, we have worked together a long time, but my goodness!!! I didn't say anything to him, but when they talk about something "going wrong" with recommendations, I guess this is what they mean. God damn. The other thing that has me worried is my Heinz CMU one. He told me there was nowhere to attach a recommendation letter there, that it was all just a set of short-answer questions. Can anyone confirm this??? CMU's website seems to indicate that this is correct, that there is no recommendation letter... But if there IS, and he didn't do it again, then my top two schools just went out the window. Wow.

What do you think of programs such as University of Georgia MPA (public finance), Georgia State MPP, Georgia Tech MPP, University of Florida MPA, George Mason MPP? They are all 2nd tier programs, but do you think good jobs can be found coming out of them? (I know finding a good job has to do with other factors too, but in general, how do you think these programs stack up? Worth going to?)

I hear this a lot, and I guess that is why I am asking here. My econ professor did do independent research work on environmental economics for the U.S. and Chinese governments. I have also asked University of Georgia and Heinz directly whether they have had graduates with no prior work experience go directly into a federal government positions, and what kind of salary they can expect. The response from U. Georgia was, "Yes, we have a number of grads every year who go into a finance policy position for the federal government. They start out at the GS-11 level, making 40-50k a year." Heinz replied, "Dear MY NAME, The analysis skills that you will gain at Heinz will be valued highly by employers everywhere. To address your questions: Yes, we have had graduates without prior full-time experience work in various positions dealing with policy analysis at the federal level. Also, we have had graduates without such experience take up positions in the private sector as well. A lot will depend on the internship that you will conduct after your first year of study. In terms of salary, you can expect to start in the mid-40s working for government or the low-to-mid 50's at the private level." Which seems to support their official stats for their MSPPM program. Those stats say that 41% of their students have "Less than 1 year" of work experience (which may be assumed to mean 0?), that the lowest starting salary was 38k, the highest 88k, the median for government around 45k, and for private, 58k. However, in terms of other programs, such as Michigan, I have no idea about salary statistics.

I have kept pressing my undergraduate adviser about whether work experience, when it comes to a quantitatively-focused MPP program, really increases what I will get out of the program and, subsequently, my career prospects. Well... My adviser had been adamantly insisting that as long as I go to a program such as CMU Heinz, or Michigan, and do an MPP (and not an MPA) which features courses such as "Advanced Multivariate regression Analysis II," then this is a logical program to go into even without work experience. She tells me that a quantitative program, while it will require that I take the obligaratory "public affairs" classes, will mainly deal with sharpening my quantitative skills and that since these skills are rarely learned on the job, that I should be fine in terms of work. She did stress the importance of attaining a relevant internship in my first Summer which will have me working direcly with quaintitative analysis. My economics professor, who knows some people personally in Heinz, also says that the more quantitative my MPP will be, the less-important he thinks work experience will be. He said, and I quote, "If you are dealing with GIS, and analyzing city traffic data, and crunching the numbers to figure out the ideal location for the construction of a new road... I don't think any amount of administration experience will give you the kind of skills necessary for that. The key, to me, is that a lot of public policy programs are specifically focused on that sort of thing, and less on the administrative, which is what an MPA would be for." Right now, I really do want to go into an MPP program, such as the one at Heinz, and basically take a lot of courses titled "Multivariate Analysis Techniques" and the such... And, yes, the reason I am doing it now and not later, is because the way I view it is: I will need my math to learn that kind of thing... And my math is fresh right now... Better go and learn now rather than later. What is your take?

Applying to MPP, mostly to programs with a concentration on either policy analysis, economic development, or a mix of both. Schools: Michigan, Heinz at CMU, Georgia Tech, Indiana SPEA, George Mason, American University, University of Georgia (MPA, policy analysis concentration), Georgia State. *Applied with a 2.9 GPA in economics from top-50 U.S. university: My in-major GPA is a 3.34. My GPA, unfortunately, came down this past semester when I took 4 advanced mathematics courses (among them, Calculus 3, Theoretical Mathematics, Advanced Linear Algebra) which were entirely outside of my degree requirements... I took them purely to try and "shore up" my quantitative base in preparation for graduate school... And it ruined my GPA. I basically explained this in an additional statement of purpose, which I think qualifies as a legitimate addendum to the application and not a form of whining. I did, however, also take a course at our graduate school of public affairs and earned an A- this past semester. I did manage to pick up some out-of-major quantitative work worth noting: Calculus 2 (A-), Linear Alegbra (B+), Advanced Linear Algebra (C... but maybe that's worth something), Mathematical Probability (, Econometrics (A-... in-major, but worth mentioning). Work experience: ->No full-time professional work experience... Have worked full-time during the Summer as an installer of sheet-rack for a constructions company, and also played the role of translator among English and Russian-speaking workers. -> Other than that, have pretty much been employed throughout my undergrad years in order to help cover tuition... Everything ranging from K.F.C., to Lowe's, to a part-time job at a non-profit organization supporting environmental legislation. Volunteer: -> Have volunteered for the past three years in my city, helping foreign regugees (many of whom possess criminal records) become assimilated with local culture... And helping with the essentials, such as finding jobs and affordable housing. -> This past Summer, volunteered abroad in Central America. Duties were, mainly, teaching English to 5-15 year old children, and administering their extracurriculuar activities. GRE, taken once: Q: 750 V: 560 AW: 4.5 (ouch) Recommendations: *Economics professor (On a scale of strength from 0-10, this will be about 8.5 in strength). *Graduate public affairs professor (I feel this guy wrote a good one, although a little bothered because he had been trying to suggest that I apply to an MPA program, as opposed to an MPP. There's uncertainty, but I definitely think he said, one way or another, "He did well in my graduate class; this guy can study at a graduate level." I will say 7.5). *Professor from study-abroad in Central America (Also the guy who helped set up my volunteer stint in Central America. I feel his recommendation will be super... 10/10. The downside is that I am 100% no one at any of my universities has heard of him). *** All three recommenders are mentioned in my SoP as playing a critical role in my decision to go for a MPP. Others: ->Have made Dean's Honor List... way back in my 2nd year, when I was a psych. major and earned a 3.67 with 17 credits of coursework. I miss those times! -> Being Russian-born, I am 100% fluent in the Russian language. -> Have done research in psychology and presented the research at the Eastern Psychological Association's annual conference in May of 2009... I was still thinkng about a psych. major back then, and thought it would be nice to gather some hands-on research skills. -> On every application, I put down that even if I do not receive aid, I will attend and take out a loan. While I don't know what effect-- if any-- this will have, it is true and I thought I'd mention it. -> My SoP, in my biased opinion, is very strong (though I have been told this by my advisor and all three recommenders. I think it will more than compensate for my pedestrian analytical writing score. My college advisor said that, in *general*, my horrible performance this past semester will be "excused" because I had challenging courses that were completely outside of my major and general educational requirements. She assessed my chances for Michigan and CMU at around "10-20%". Some other things: * George Mason does not have a deadline until after my final grades from this Spring come in. I am definitely waiting for that final transcript... * Another option would be to apply by the Spring deadline for some of these schools... American University, for example, has a Spring deadline... * If worst comes to worst, I will go work for a year and re-apply. What do you think? To be honest, if I am being told that I have a "10-20%" chance at CMU at Michigan... If that's really true and not a nice way of saying, "You have 0% chance," then I might as well apply to... GPPI, GWU, UMaryland, Syracuse, Rockefeller... They have all have quantitatively-focused programs which I like.