travelingartmuse

Hi Hardkore, Thank you. That's what I thought but wanted to make sure. It's so nice to get a letter wanting you to do anything after all the rejections.

Hi people. I'm not sure if any of you are checking this forum anymore but I need some help. Does anyone know anything about NYU's Draper Interdisciplinary MA program in Humanities and Social Thought? After just starting to get over that I've been rejected for the third time to all PhD programs in Art History, I received a letter today from NYU saying that I've been selected as a possible candidate to the Draper program. I've searched in the grad cafe and last year someone posted two questions about the program and a link to a Livejournal chat about it. It seems that if you are identified as a highly potential candidate in one of the specialty Humanities disciplines (yeah me if that was the case:( and don't make the final cut you are referred to this program. The website contains some general info about alumi profiles being varied since the program has mass appeal. Some go on to PhD programs at Ivy schools etc...So my question is has anyone heard anything about the program and why would I consider it when I already have a MA in Humanities from one of these types of programs? Is it just a ploy to get those like me with high intellectual interests across the liberal arts to spend more money and have no practical use in the world of academia? Or is it a prestigious enough program that would bolster my chances later with two MA's in the same field to get into a PhD program through NYU's infinite network? Thanks.

lxs & all - Your decisions sound like good choices and more importantly that you are all happy with your decisions. Isn't it nice to have the ball in your decision-making court? Welcome to NYC for those of you coming here. lxs, all I can say from someone with a very similar background who has had no offers, really consider the CUNY offer for this year. You can make it work. When I decided to sell everything after earning my MA, move to NYC, take AH grad classes at Columbia through Cont. Ed (and pay for them!), work part-time at the Guggenheim and volunteer doing research at the Met, it has been the most challenging and rewarding experience. Yes, I agree do not pay for grad school blah, blah, blah...but is this your dream? Is this what you want to do with your life? Why postpone it? Take the risk. It sounds like CUNY is a great fit for you now. Take the offer. PM me and we can talk about specific ways to make money and survive in New York. You can make it work. Geez, maybe I should publish a survival guide and forget about Art History! (just kidding...)

I just called NYU since it is the last rejection I am waiting for or the only acceptance I will receive....the Administrator said that 'yes' they are really late and letters are being mailed this Friday. This is ridiculous! Is anyone declining NYU's offer or crossing it off their list because of the delay? Just curious... Also do we believe that all these letters going out on Friday are rejections and the offers went out already in early March???

...makes you wonder...what will life at CUNY be like? I got that disorganized impression from the moment I walked through the door. They actually lost my check and held up my app because of their incompetance. Granted, there are very esteemed scholars who teach there. As an institution of higher educaton though, I wonder. Maybe I just have high expectations! But at this price those expectations should be met. Did anyone apply or know anyone in the Columbia free standing MA program? .....

stylefaxee - I grew up in a the neighborhood adjacent to Case. Ahhh...home. I miss home here in the NYC land of flying monkeys. If you are considering it and want to know more let me know...Good luck as you all make your decisions. Remember as stressful as making a choice can be, having choices is better than not having any!

Ren08 - Thx for the sympathy. Princeton had an email account on file for me that is 4 yrs old and inactive. The Dean just sent the rejection, as we thought. The thing that gets me and many of you have highlighted it, why not be honest? The field is so small my recommenders all know each other closely and I've met and contacted (or tried to) the advisors I wanted to work with. Why not say, like in your experience, save the $100 application fee and months of anxiety and find somewhere else to apply because 1. I am not taking any students next year 2. I am retiring (and not taking any students) Rosand led me to believe that that it was possible. Your right about making it this far, it's just hard after four years of trying, moving to NYC for it and spending alot money to follow this path. When should one just reassess if the goal is not obtainable?

Cleveland and the area around Case is not the ghetto. Granted like any major urban city, there are places you have to be careful, cautious and vigilant. If you want to live in a suburb there are plenty of those choices as well. BTW - a very high percentage of Forbes Fortune 500 listees live in Cleveland suburbs. I would do more research if I were you before making a judgement call and go visit.

Renaissance08 & emusinfrance - Thank you. Your honesty answers my my uncertainty. And I am now more convinced that I will be getting that rejection tomorrow from Princeton, if not a second as well from NYU. I think I've said it before so sorry for the redundancy, but my interest and background is primarily Medieval/Renaissance Italian Art and Architecture and cross cultural exchange, specifically Islamic and in particular, in relation to Venice. I had feared that about Brown. It seems to be the theme for me this year and the previous other two yrs that I have gone thru this excruciatingly painful process. Columbia - Rosand (retiring), NYU - Alexander (most likely retiring in the next 4 yrs) he was the advisor to my MA advisor and never responded to my multiple e-mails to meet), Princeton - Brown (now retiring), Yale - Dunlap, and Bard. I didn't meet with Pinto and he sounds great, but Brown most closely relates almost to the tee with my area. Also due to Princeton having two Islamacists, I thought it would be a good fit. emusinfrance - Hmmm...your message is somewhat cryptic and from my interest you can easily figure out where I work and with whom I've worked with...yes? You can PM me if you want to discuss my take on the Museum X and Bard. My interest in Bard and the decorative arts relates to my topic. Because my topic is broad to a degree, I can encompass the so called high arts, architecture and decorative arts, thus my interest in Bard. Said Curator who is also a Prof at Bard is in an adjunct position and would not be my advisor there should I have gotten accepted. But that point is mute since I didn't and looks like won't be anywhere, again.

Everything Steve says is on par. I grew up in Cleveland (Little Italy), now I am in NYC trying to get into a PhD program in Art History. Sounds like you probably won't have a car which is OK for CWRU. Although the campus is widespread and you'll be walking alot. Since it borders University Circle where the great cultural institutions of Cleveland reside (The Cleveland Museum of Art, other museums, Severance Hall and the orchestra), it is near the Clinic (I also worked there for years!) and is adjacent to LIttle Italy, making a home base in that area is a good idea. That being the case, Little Italy is very safe to walk around at night and live. Forget calling a broker, as most owners do not deal with them. My suggestion is to call Holy Rosary Church on Mayfield Rd. The rectory keeps a list of phone numbers of area owners. Also, the bakery/coffee shop Presti's is a good place. And of course, if you walk around there are rental signs galore. You can find a nice 1 bdr, maybe even 2, apartment for $500-$600. The area is 60% case students and the other 40% are locals who have grown up in the area are empty nesters, suburan ex-patriates, who want to live in the city and give up the cost of big homes. The art scene draws an mixed group of suburbanites too. I like to think of my neighborhood as a moment in the country's history where immigrants have settled and now in contemporary times is striving to maintain its heritage and tradition and balance its relationship to the CWRU, the hospitals, greater Cleveland, and the art scene. Many Cleveland Clinic and University Hospital docs and staff also live in the area. The neighborhood is full of restaurants and art galleries and bustles. Shaker Square is quaint. The market is fun on Saturdays. Many orchestra types live there and you'll them practicing. Coventry is also eclectic and fun. However, coming down Coventry and walking down (and back up) Edgehill is hard in the Cleveland winters! Many do it, but you have to have thick skin. Transportation - Yes, public transportation in Cleveland can be dicey. However there is bus called the circular that only stops at Case, University Circle, Little Italy and Coventry. The bus was created, I think, to fill the need for only those in this area. Check that out. Good luck to you. The Cleveland Clinic is a massive place and that's a whole other story....

17th scream - What are the other three schools that you are waiting to here from?

Renaissance08 - Can I ask who you wanted to work with at Princeton and did you go there to meet him/her?

17thscream - I took an Islamic Art course with Kishwar Rizvi (who is now at Yale) and a Gothic Sculpture class with Stephen Murray (who is a wonderful Brit, but also retiring....).

Renaissance08 - In my experience, as with all NYC things, is that it is a rat race. The rat closest to the cheese usually gets the crumbs. See what I'm saying? For example, those that do a voluntary internship at Museum X will be in the forefront for consideration for a highly prized paid Fellowship X to do their dissertation or work on a publication. You do the time, you MAY have a better advantage. To have the advantage to volunteer, you need to be local (and have both time and money). For me, I took two classes at Columbia, worked 35 hours a week at a different museum in an entry level position, and volunteered at Museum X. Basically, 7 days a week. That said, there are plenty of graduates from all over the world brought into Museum X as fellows, however, the largest percentage are from the local pool. My theory is because 1. they have better connections (location, location, location) Many people in Museum X have come from the IFA and Columbia so the relationship remains close. I've heard a saying that the road to Museum X is through the IFA. 2. it is easier because they are already here (no housing to consider, etc...) 3. it is a way to compensate them for their voluntary work and commitment

lxs - Wow our paths are similar! To tell the truth, my experience at CUNY wasn't that great. I come from a private University where staff and admin care about their jobs and students. I did not get that feeling at all there and meeting with the Director was not informative. He was preoccupied the whole time (because the secretary double booked appointments) and other students were waiting outside his door. We didn't even discuss funding. You're in at one right? I'd say forget CUNY unless you really like the advisor there. 17th & dontknow - Basically, no one can tell you to whether to follow your heart or your head. NYU and Columbia, both being so large and somewhat aloof, will provide you with many opportunities post grad. Honestly, I'd weigh my decision based on 1. finances and 2. what do you want to do after with your PhD? If you are focused on teaching and want more of a choice post grad then go with one of these programs. The network and connectedness of the more prestigious programs is blatantly apparent when you look at faculty at these institutions they all seem to come from the same ranks. Where did they do work and who does University X hire? If you don't mind going to Wichita to teach (and there's nothing wrong with Wichita) then stick with the others. The quality of your life will definitely be better at Bryn Mawr. The opportunities for you in New York can be competitive but there are many. Now, as I've mentioned in a previous post if you think you may want to do museum work (research, fellowships, curatorial) then definitely do one of these programs. You will have an advantage here in NYC (trust me, I work in one of these museums and know the inner network). Now, with all that said, take my opinion cautiously. I am 0-6, waiting on 2 and this is the third (and final year) that I will be applying. I may not be the most credible advisor on the subject. Having taken classes at Columbia I concur with the your analysis that the professors are very focused on their work. Sometimes, I feel that being there would have been no different educationally than anywhere else. And I want that kind of collaboration and collegiality. What Columbia (and the Ivies) does afford is a prestigious name that in the real world affords great opportunity. To leave you with a metaphor, if you wanted to get into politics, would you rather work on Capital Hill or in your local state or city government? What is the big picture goal?

DUguy33 - Applying to the Ivies this third year of going through this hell was just because they happen to be local to where I am and my employer will pay for it, if I get in. However, having an MA from a great private, non-Ivy school, yes I too agree that you will get a great education and most likely more enjoyable experience from a non-Ivy school. I am at the point in my life where I don't have the luxury of quitting my job to pursue this dream, should I be accepted anywhere but locally or gasp somewhere without funding. I already have an MA that I am paying for. Plus, my decision to apply to these PhD programs had nothing to do with their reputation of being elite Ivy League schools. At this level, one should be applying to school's where the advisor's research interests and yours are similar. Mine just happen to be at these schools.

Rosebud - I received the same email and admittedly, out of complete desperation, I want to believe the same thing. In my sleuthing I believed that because I applied to two schools through Embark and the email said, "Starting School in the Fall?" and only mentioned my applying to Princeton, I want to believe that I got in there. The other school NYU, I am still awaiting word from like many others. And the irony of it all? I didn't get an email from Princeton yesterday. No rejection, no admission, no wait-list = no nothing! So a weekend of searching the internet to see if I can find out any information to relieve my nagging brain of this incessant, tormenting process. One of Dante's circles of hell definitely relates to this, I know it.

lxs & Renaissance08 - Thanks for the vote of confidence. If only our peers had a say in who gets in..... At this point, I am thinking that either they lost my application at Princeton because some work study undergrad misfiled it (I use to do this at my alma mater) or they just missed the deadline and will be sending out more rejects on Monday. The results page kept creeping with posts yesterday from the Wilson program and then the latest Architecture. My guess is they are going by program. Yes, I am the one who posted yesterday afternoon after I called and was told all decisions will be out before today, yeah right. I applied to CUNY in September for Spring admission since they accept applicants by semester and not only by academic year. My notification came after Christmas. I was not hopeful though because the person I wanted to study with, I was told, took a Dean position and was not directly affiliated with the AH dept and probably would not be advising students. I had tried to contact her and use Museum connections to do so, but did not receive a reply. So much for that! I wish you luck there too. As a side note, I had a great professor (Italian Ren/Baroque) who earned her PhD from Rutgers and loved it. I agree about NYC, you've been here long enough to know how hard it is and what its like. I have only been here for three years and if the reason I came here doesn't come to fruition, I am seriously considering packing up and going home to the Midwest. A place where people are friendly, or at the very least make eye contact and say 'pardon me' when they need you to move or bump into you on a crowded bus or train. The cost of living here IS structured for those financially grounded to afford it and we in the art and academic fields are not. I live in the city so I don't have the commute like you do, but I have thought about moving out to get away from it all, New York is a compromise on so many levels. It also has many rewards:) One's life is compromised enough while earning a PhD, I think to do it in New York one should be very committed to the idea, reality and environment specific to the location. My suggestion to all of you who are considering it is to get as much advice and opinions and ask yourself the tough questions.

Congratulations to all of you with admission acceptance notifications. What a relief for you. I am still awaiting on two, Princeton and NYU. Does anyone know if all Princeton notifications both accept/reject/waitlist have gone out? I just find it odd that they publish that all decisions will be out by March 15 and I've heard nothing! NYU is always historically late. This is my third year of appyling to programs and again, I find myself 0-6 (with the two outstanding). Mew27 your story was enlightening, because at this point that is exactly what I am hoping is happening to me. Even though it is not what we would like to believe happens, but remember Education like everything is a business. If one of the heads of the families did not give me a nod, then my dream of getting a PhD is over. Princeton would be the best fit for me as my research interests most closely matches the person I'd like to work with. However, she is on sabbatical this semester and probably not on the admissions committee for all I know. At NYU,the person I'd work with is probably going to retire (as most of them are very soon...so perhaps why this is taking so long?). I guess I am just looking for any ray of hope out there? A little about me, I have an MA in Humanities from a Jesuit U. with a focus on Medieval/Renaissance Art History. Interested in Islamic influences (congrats NOBOD). Applied after that and rejected by all. Moved to NYC to take classes at Columbia thru Cont. Ed and prove to myself and the Ivies that I can handle Ivy work = Non-matriculated success. Interned and researched with a well-respected curator at a very prestigious museum on an exhibition that directly related to my thesis and area of focus. Was hired full time in an Administrative capacity in Education at the Museum. Reapplied to programs with a recommendation from this curator who is also a prof at Bard. Rejects to date: Bard, CUNY, Columbia, and Yale (took classes at Columbia with Prof now at Yale). I don't know how I could have networked better or prove to be a strong candidate. Plus, the Museum would pay for tuition! I am heartbroken. As for those of you who already have received notification from the IFA: For what its worth, and this reiterates what some others have posted: The IFA is notorious for creating an atmosphere and environment that is highly-competitive and somewhat unpleasant for study and collegiality amongst its students. I have talked to and work with many who are in and have gone through the program and this is the one point they all highlight, and have candidly admitted in retrospect, they would have chosen a different offer. As for only not receiving funding in the first year, living in New York is hard and expensive. The IFA building is a historic, landmark mansion on Fifth Ave., beautiful and a great location (across from Central Park and The Met). Definitely budget living costs seriously into your decision. With that said, as you all know NYU's program is prestigious and living in NYC has its advantages for art world opportunities depending on where you'd like to be. If you think you may want to do some museum work with your PhD, then absolutely consider it. The competition after you graduate to come from the outside into the NYC scene is even more competitive than the admissions process. I hope this helps and I'd be glad to answer any specific questions you may have about NYC (ie. living on the UES or elsewhere...) Thanks for this forum, I wish I had found it months ago! Please let me know about Princeton if you have any insights.

I am 0-6 and waiting on 2 (Princeton and NYU). This is the third time in four years that I have applied to Art History programs. Art History...let's face it , the field is so exclusive and not even lucrative! Why be so damn selective in a liberal arts field? Granted, I have chosen only Ivy schools and the best of the best. But,three times is humiliating. I not only already have an MA, albeit not a traditional Art History master's but a Humanities degree from a Jesuit U. with a focus on Art History, I moved to NYC and paid for grad classes at Columbia (one the #1 rated programs for the field) as a non-matriculated student to prove to myself and the Ivies that I can handle Ivy coursework, landed a research gig within my area of focus for upcoming exhibition at the most prestigious museum in the country (if not one of the best in the world), included a recommendation from an esteemed curator and expert in the field of focus for this go around, and landed a job at said museum (which would pay for tuition!) = so far, all rejections. I travelled, met with Professors and discovered that some are retiring, the lot is so limited that the sky has to be purple on the day they are looking at applicants for that area etc... Spending exorbitant amounts of money on applications, traveling to schools, moving to New York, living in New York and now having a job at the museum which is administrative is depressing. I was working on a career, not on landing a job. Not the Plan B I had hoped for, nor do I want for my life's career. So, for me. It is reassessment time. In the meantime, I've started a blog so I can publish, write and discuss my passion in the field over the web for anyone interested in reading. It's only yielded $11 in the past month, just enough to cover the cost of running the blog and paying for the .com address, buy heh, it's an avenue to explore. Also, I am buying a mega lottery ticket. Seems the odds are similar to getting into a PhD program, maybe luck will be on there for me. Rejections: Columbia, CUNY, Bard, Yale Waiting: Princeton, NYU PS. Anyone else still waiting to hear from Princeton? I thought they were sending it all out yesterday?