inprogress
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Posts posted by inprogress
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On 3/6/2017 at 5:10 PM, Calvin S said:
What about what are the best ThMs? I'm more concerned with whether I will have wasted my money and time.
The best ThMs come from the best schools - HDS, PTS, YDS, DDS, Candler, etc. You will have to pay for them, but they will do you the most good in terms of getting into a PhD program. If you're an evangelical, the other programs may not be a waste of time (they can increase your breadth and help with networking), but they won't do you as much good as the top Div schools.
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17 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:
The rep from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School told me their ThM offers funding.
Come to think of it, I think I heard that Fuller offers some funding for their ThM as well. The tuition starts at like $20,000/yr though, so it would have to be fairly significant to make it an affordable option after one factors in the cost of living in Pasadena.
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I've heard that Brite Divinity School offers funding for ThM students. I believe someone on here got 70% tuition remission a while back.1 Also, if you're an evangelical, I believe Trinity School for Ministry (Ambrose, PA) offers tuition remission (66-100%) to most of the student body.2 One of their admission reps posted about it here last year. Candler mentions funding on their financial aid page, but it's only available to their own alumni (MTS and MDiv grads).3 St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary offers funding to ThM students, but you have to match a certain profile.4 Also, I know nothing about this seminary and it looks really conservative, but they mention scholarships for ThM students.5 It also looks like Boston College might offer some aid.6 I don't know if any of these schools would be a good fit for you (or if their application deadlines have passed), but these are the few that I'm aware of.
1https://www.brite.edu/admissions/financial-aid/
2http://www.tsm.edu/scholarships/
3http://candler.emory.edu/admissions/financial-aid/scholarships.html
4http://www.svots.edu/content/types-financial-aid
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3 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:
My view is that being a Baptist makes me free from any doctrinal fundamentalism.
Sadly, the opposite is true in the eyes of most.
I come from a Baptist background as well.
3 hours ago, NT PhD ... Hopefully said:Does no no one have any thoughts on Fuller, Asbury, or Trinity???
I'm going to assume from your other comments that funding is less of an issue for you. That being said, while I don't know anything about funding at Asbury, I do know that Fuller and TEDS very rarely (like one student per year) offer tuition remission. TEDS can also provide you with an assistantship working for the Trinity Journal. (I know a PhD student there who has such an arrangement).
If you want to teach at a conservative-to-mainstream evangelical school, TEDS and Fuller are decent places to do a PhD. A lot of the more conservative schools love TEDS grads; it's one of the main "feeder schools" for conservative liberal arts colleges and seminaries. If you want to teach at one of the more "prestigious" evangelical schools, like Wheaton College, Westmont College, or Gordon-Conwell, then I think you'll have a hard time finding a spot with a Fuller/TEDS degree. They prefer to hire the conservatives who manage to graduate with PhDs from TT places in the U.S., or U.K. schools like St. Andrews, Aberdeen, Cambridge, etc. Some people get hired there with evangelical PhDs, but such schools definitely prefer "prestige" PhDs.
I don't have any experience with Asbury grads, but I've had professors from both Fuller and TEDS. Fuller is definitely more "liberal" than TEDS, both theologically and politically. All of the professors at TEDS believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. Many of them will argue about what that means, but they are all willing to use the term. I believe Fuller gave up inerrancy about 40 years ago. I just bring that up to say that if you want to teach at moderate evangelical-to-mainline schools (i.e., those that don't require inerrancy), Fuller would probably give you a bit more credibility. If you want to teach at a conservative school (i.e., those where inerrancy is a test of fellowship), then either is fine, but TEDS would probably be a better fit.
I would also add this, a PhD from Fuller (without scholarships) will cost you $55,080; a PhD from TEDS (without scholarships) will cost you $46,500, and both of these programs will probably take you 5 years (and maybe one or two more) to complete. Tuition for a PhD from Aberdeen is about $54,000, and tuition at St. Andrews is about $60,000, and it will only take 3 years to complete your PhD. Given the savings in time and the increased odds of employment, I would give the UK options more consideration.
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On 3/2/2016 at 3:33 PM, drivingthoughts said:
@drivingthoughts I got into a fully-funded ThM program
I was just reading this thread since it got bumped. If you don't mind me asking, where did you do your ThM? I've heard that funded ThMs exist, but I've never been able to find one.
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On 10/27/2016 at 9:01 PM, sacklunch said:
FWIW, I think there is still time to 'get out'. You will likely need to do another M*; but you know this. In fact, there is nothing keeping you where you are. You could apply to several of the 'liberal' and/or secular programs this season. If you did do so and your grades are good (decent, even), I think you would be fairly successful. This is often repeated on the forum, but it's worth saying again: the top divinity schools in this country have relatively high acceptance rates. Compare them with almost any other professional program at these R1 schools, and they are hilariously high: over the years I have read/heard the top MDiv programs-HDS, YDS, Chicago, Duke, and so on-sit somewhere between a 40-60% acceptance rate. And many of these schools offer really good funding (historically, at least, HDS and PTS, while Duke is known for being on the lower end). Regardless of whether you stay at your current program, you might also consider an MA in RS or Religion (or perhaps another MA depending on your field of interest). Most MA programs require few specific courses, which would allow you to 'catch up' on pure academics rather than trudging through more unrelated coursework. But this may all be rather worthless to you without knowing more about your interests. At least for those of us who work in antiquity, having 2 M* is sort of old hat; most of us (me) have two (and a third, sometimes even fourth while doing the doctorate). Take heart, friend.
I've considered trying to jump ship, but I think I may have better odds if I stay where I am. I have a 4.0 GPA, but I still don't think I'd be guaranteed to get accepted to an MA in RS, or a funded MTS/MAR at Div. school. (My broad AOI is patristics). I really don't want to enter another M.Div., I'd probably have to repeat a number of courses given ideological differences between my school and top tier divinity schools. After this year I'll have 80% of the program done, so the last year will mostly be comprised of modern research languages at a nearby university. I think I'll have a better shot at funded M* programs after that year.
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On 10/27/2016 at 8:07 PM, Almaqah Thwn said:
And, it is somewhat excruciating, lonely, and depressing to sort of be the lone person who thinks your way in your program. Furthermore, you're in for basically two years of hoop jumping, where you have to take classes which are of no interest to you, plough through unprofitable busy work and uninteresting books, and bear with the conscious awareness that your professors are dismissing legitimate scholarly issues and then sometimes taking potshots at them (Your post tells me you are already aware of this, as well).
This describes my situation exactly, AT. I'm glad to hear from someone who can understand my frustration. I also tire of the scowls and confused looks when people learn that I'm not pursuing ministry and ask, "Why are you in seminary if you don't want to be a pastor?"
I am already planning on doing most of the steps you mentioned. My school doesn't offer French or German, but I've been taking heavier loads so that I can take both during my third year from a state university about 30 min. away. I've received pretty good training in Greek (NT and patristic) and Hebrew, and I'm even taking Aramaic next semester. Biblical languages are heavily emphasized here. I definitely need to get to work on some more substantial research though, as you suggested.
On 10/27/2016 at 8:07 PM, Almaqah Thwn said:All that being said (And I have spent way too much time typing this), I want to leave you with this one thing because I found that I was constantly struggling with it: Recognize that the position in which you are is not all bad. Even though fundamentalist scholarship has serious flaws, your professors, fellow students, and the people working at your seminary are still great people who care for you, will go to bat for you, and be interested in your well being. I am in the position which I am in now because of more conservative scholars who took time out of their busy schedule and went out of the way to help me get ahead in life, and I owe them a great deal for that. And even though much of the practical theology requirements are frustrating and can seem as though they have no academic value, they are very useful for your own maturation and developing empathy for others around you. I remember one professor: I hated his classes, but I highly admired him as a person. I once ran into him as I was paying rent, and he was paying another student's tuition. Another time, I was getting a new computer at a Best Buy, and he was buying someone else a computer. And, all of this was on a seminary professor's budget, mind you, which is not a lot. He was an amazing person, even though I disliked his classes and know that he would not read my books for being "liberal." So, enjoy the people around you now, forgive their flaws, tread carefully, but tread lovingly. You're in the position in which you are for a reason. That said, I'm not accusing you of doing any of this. But, I do know how easy it is to fall into the trap of academic snobbery and how poisonous it can be.
Thank you for taking the time to type this, AT. I found it very helpful and encouraging. I can't be very frank about this with my fellow students, so it's very encouraging to hear from someone with a similar background who has managed to make it to the next step. You made some really good points in this last paragraph. It is important to be thankful for good, caring people. I even have one professor (a patristics scholar, my broad AOI) who has published with OUP, Mohr Siebeck, etc. He does good historical work and deserves respect, even if I disagree with him about some critical/theological issues.
Thanks again. I need to stop worrying, put my head down, and just do what I can to make strong applications for next year.
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Hello, all,
I grew up in a very conservative evangelical home, and consequently went to a very conservative Christian college. When I was in college, I began to move to the left of my parents and professors, and now would identify myself as a more moderate evangelical (along the lines of Fuller Theological Seminary). When I was finishing college, a professor frankly told me that I'd have no shot at getting into places like HDS, DDS, PTS, etc. with my degree, and that I would have to take out tens of thousands of dollars worth of loans to attend a place like Fuller or Gordon-Conwell (I think he was right on both accounts). The dean of the seminary attached to the college I attended offered me an 80% scholarship for the M.Div. program there, so I decided to stay at the same school and use try use the M.Div. to bridge into a second masters degree at a more prestigious school (i.e., HDS, PTS, etc.). I'm now in my second year in the M.Div. program, and I'm wondering if I've shot my own foot off by staying in such conservative circles for so long. I can't see myself teaching at a conservative "ministry-training" school like the ones I've attended (I'm too liberal), but I also don't know if I have any shot at a job in the moderate evangelical-to-secular range of schools either (My credentials are too conservative). I'm not enjoying school right now (I never agree with my profs, and I hate the ministry portion of the M.Div.), and I'm kinda wondering if it's time for me to give up the dream of being a professor.
Is my background less damning than I think, or should I move on to another potential career?
(IDK, I may just be suffering from some mid-semester blues.)
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On 8/2/2016 at 9:25 AM, telkanuru said:
FWIW, I did my M* at Harvard Divinity in the History of Christianity on a 4/5 tuition package. I know other students received full tuition remission and a stipend.
I'm planning on sending an application to Harvard Divinity. I'm just looking for programs that are better suited to my current interests, and/or are less selective. I don't think my chances of getting into Harvard Div. are that great.
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On 8/2/2016 at 9:01 AM, menge said:
I can only generally comment about CUA, but I believe it is a well regarded school though I have heard that funding can be on the low end. A couple other notes: in my experience, the opportunity to do a lot with a particular faculty member in a field of interest depends on a lot of things like required coursework, current course offerings, will the faculty member want to supervise an independent study, etc. It's great when this works out at the MA level, but it doesn't always. It may be worth asking what the chances are that you will be able to do some of the things you want there.
As an aside, have you looked at WMU's Medieval Institute? Not sure how the faculty might fit with your interests, but I know they do fund students.
I have looked at WMU. It looks like a solid program, but it doesn't look like they have anyone working in my areas of interest.
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Is there anyone on here who has had some experience or interaction with CUA who would be willing to share their experience? I am especially interesting in the school's placement history in PhD programs and funding for MA students. I'm looking for M* programs in early/medieval Christianity with one or more faculty members working in Syriac and Coptic, and CUA has a faculty member working in each of my fields of interest. Also, I come from an evangelical background, so I think I would be more comfortable there than I would be in some secular departments.
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Would most of you agree that it is at least acceptable to acquire required languages through independent study? I need to pick up Latin (and maybe Syriac) in the future. Language acquisition is one of my greatest strengths, and I'd like to avoid paying tuition if possible.
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Hello, all,
I apologize in advance for my lengthy post.
I graduated with a Master of Arts in Theological Studies (a broad, non-thesis degree awarded after completing 36 cr. of the M.Div. program) from a small, evangelical seminary earlier this month. Last week I was chatting with an acquaintance and told him that my long-term goal is to teach religion and/or theology on the college level. He then told me that the local community college is looking for an adjunct instructor to teach one section of REL 101: Survey of World Religions in the Spring 2017 semester; and that my MA would qualify me for an adjunct position. I emailed the chair of the school's humanities division earlier this week to ask about the position, and he responded favorably to my inquiry. Based on our brief correspondence thus far, I think I will almost certainly get the spot (with the possibility of teaching the same course in subsequent semesters) if I can prove myself to be competent in an interview. I'm excited about this opportunity, but I also have some reservations about it.
First, though I really want to start teaching, I don't know if this would do more to help or to hurt my long-term goals. I am returning to seminary this fall to continue in the school's M.Div. program (I completed the MA in one year. I have two left to finish the M.Div.), so I would be a full-time student at my seminary while teaching for the for the first time at the community college down the road. I think I could shoulder the load without too much difficulty (I've always worked 20-30 hrs/wk in college and seminary), but I don't really know if this is the best thing to spend my time on at this point in my student years. After I finish my evangelical M.Div., I plan to apply to M.A./M.A.R./M.T.S. programs at top-tier div. schools and universities (with hopes of getting into a top-tier PhD program), and I'm really hoping to get good funding (shocking, I know). I still need to learn one primary-source language for my field of interest, and I do not have any modern research languages. At this point, which do you think would do more to improve my odds of acceptance/funding in a top-tier master's program -- adjunct CC teaching experience, or more language prep? I don't want to jump at an opportunity if it would actually hinder rather than help my chances at a full-time position in the long run.
The previous paragraph basically addresses the first part of my question. Second, for those of you have taught your own course before (or are preparing to do so), what advice would you offer to someone preparing to teach a course for the first time? I have served as a "TA" of sorts for a prof in the college attached to my seminary (subbing in his Western Civ. and Ethics classes when he is off presenting at conferences), but my only other experience comes from about two years of teaching a Christian education class in my church. The humanities chair from the CC has already sent me the school's syllabus guidelines, possible textbooks, learning objectives for the course, so it's not as though I'm designing my own course from scratch, but I still don't really know where to begin. Do you have any suggestions for preparing, or perhaps a hard-learned lesson from your own experience?
I'm going to give the prospect some thought and get feedback from different sources before I decide to go ahead with an interview. Thank you all for any help you can offer!
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Hello, all,
I am currently a student in an MA program at a small, evangelical seminary and am thinking about pursuing a different subject after I graduate. I have been planning on pursuing a PhD in religion and focusing on Second Temple Judaism/Early Christianity, but recently I've started to wonder if I'd be better off in a different discipline. I realize that the job market is competitive for history PhDs (and all fields for that matter), but the job prospects for religion PhDs are absolute crap. I feel as though I would have a better chance of landing a teaching position with a history PhD, especially since I will also have an MA in religion (e.g., I could teach introductory courses in religion and history at a community college). I was wondering if any of you would be willing to critique my comments above, and/or suggest some programs to consider. My work in biblical studies has exposed me to both the ancient Near East and Greco-Roman civilization; those are my primary fields of interest.
I have a B.A. in Biblical Studies from a small Christian college attached to the seminary I now attend (4 semesters of introductory history classes, 2 of religious history) and will finish an M.A. in Christian Thought (about 12 credits in religious history) next December. My seminary did not require GRE scores and I have yet to take the exam. My undergrad GPA was 3.96 (I also received two academic achievement awards), and my current graduate GPA is 4.0.
Do you think this resume (plus decent GRE scores) would be enough to get me into a PhD program in Greco-Roman or ANE history, or should I consider doing a history M.A. first? Additionally, if you think I should do an M.A., is the prestige of one's M.A. school as important in history as it is in religion? I am willing to relocate for an M.A., but there happens to be a state university (Iowa State) 15 minutes from my home. It is by no means a powerhouse in the humanities, but they do have a PhD-track M.A. program and a faculty member who works in Greco-Roman history (It would be nice to remain at home before relocating for a PhD and I will get in-state tuition if funding does not come through.).
I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions that you might have. Also, if you could steer me toward programs that are strong in my areas of interest, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
Adequate GRE scores?
in Religion
Posted
Hello, all,
I took the GRE for the first time last month, and I'm wondering whether it would be worth taking the test again. I'm planning to apply to masters-level programs at TT schools this fall (e.g., HDS, Vandy U and Div., YDS) and my scores were 161 V, 147 Q, and 4.0 W. I totally winged the test, so I'm sure I could get my numbers up a bit with some more preparation, but I just want to know if those scores sound adequate before investing more time on the GRE. I'm coming out of an M.Div. program at a conservative evangelical seminary and my GPA currently is 3.98.