GopherGrad

Thanks, everyone! A word of warning to all the whipper-snappers I end up in class with: Creaking hips aside, I can still put on a clinic when it comes to throwing down like a rock star. You may be relieved to know that the party does not stop at 30. And Lorax, I totally agree. a 30-something has plenty of time to sink into a new career. Not as much as a 22 year old, but plenty. As we get older, the energy+time versus wisdom+experience fulcrum just keeps shifting. I didn't notice the greying temples of my law school cohort and my current sense of aging is entirely internal. I'm a soccer fan, and I remember watching a game featuring one of my favorite elderly stars (Litmanen or Nedved, I think) and the announcer was waxing on about said footballer's economy of movement. "Imagine!" he said "if he knew what he knows now when he had the legs of a 25-year-old!" Point being, of course, that having the legs of a 25-year-old actually prevents you from learning about economy of movement on the pitch. I don't know how that relates to grad school other than that it relates to everything. Oh, and on a substantive note, it's been two weeks since the DGS at Marquette told me there is no way it would take two weeks to hear back and I haven't heard anything. So. Any minute now. *twiddles thumbs* *refresh*

I went to law school as a wet-eared 22 year old and treated it like college. I mean, I worked really hard, but it was sporadic. I remember that what time I showed up at the library depended on how much work I had, but however early I got in, this one student was there before me. When finals came, I was hitting the books until all hours, but he was rarely there late. I asked him once about his study habits and he said: "I get here at eight every day and leave at five. If I run out of reading, I re-read, I read ahead, I read supplements. If five o'clock comes and I have more to do, I ask myself if the extra work is worth an hour not seeing my wife, my kids or taking the time I can with my parents or friends. If it's not, I leave. This is just a job. You do it right, but it's the means." He finished near the top of the class and disappeared into a middle-sized firm that paid him like crazy and let him take family vacations. Man had developed priorities that I totally did not get. I'm still not sure I do, exactly. But I do know that working has changed my attitude toward education. Experience has something to say for it. I often feel behind when I think about finishing eight years from now ... almost 40. But I've stood up in court and made arguments that the judge should take someone else's children away. I've argued to free people I knew should be in jail. I celebrated marriages and births with friends and cried with them during divorce and miscarriage and been through a lot of it for myself. It would be insane to think that won't add to my experience studying again. Everyone takes their own path, but they mostly lead to similar places. Your career, your whole life, eventually gets put into perspective. This is not to take away from you young gunners that got your shit together and hit the Ph.D road at 22 (you'll find your own ways to grow, obviously), but I'm glad to be embarking on a new phase with a little bit of history to fall back on. There are some things you can't learn until you're older; going back to school later is a trade-off, not a loss.

Ha-ha. I thought I was ancient at 30. What did you do back in the Golden Century?

Loans. Don't do it. You can't even comprehend how much happier you will be as mid-level administrator for Hibbing County than a perpetual lecturer at East Southeast New Hampshire state with a $200k sword of Damocles nicking your jugular. It almost never makes sense to leverage your future sense of mobility and freedom for that kind of dough. One day, your Future Self will look lovingly at your three-year-old son, then your doting spouse and think "Thank the Good Baby Christ Child I can ditch that whiny little bastard with Grandma and take a week in Honolulu to finally be a sexual creature again". Then Future Self will realize that such a vacation would be impossible with a $2k/month loan payment and Future Self will thank Present Self and GopherGrad (the wizened, but oddly still totally hot Phantom of the GradCafe) because were it not for that very moment on the Internet you would be looping the leaf blower's electric cord over a garage rafter instead of planning a vacation.

I got the double reject, too. Funny stuff. Like I read these things closely enough to register the date or care that it was wrong.

I had a spreadsheet. I just stopped filling it out after the crush of acceptances came and went. I check in here a couple times a day out of habit, but I don't even really have any residual anxiety (even about Cornell). I agree with firefly, but even if he's wrong I'll go 0-12 on Ph.D. programs, so you're still not the coolest loser.

I have mostly lost track of who has and has not officially rejected me yet. I'm pretty sure I haven't gotten word from Chicago or Berkeley.

I did essentially what adaptations suggested this cycle and I think it was a good idea. I've whiffed completely on Ph.D. programs, but it looks like I'll have at least one MA option to weigh. Your stats are strong enough to apply for great Ph.D. programs. You left out critical info for us in your OP. What is your undergrad major? Do you feel you have any training weaknesses that should be addressed? You need to honestly appraise deficiencies in your application and ask how an MA would patch them and whether you will actually do those things during the program. For example: I have a similar GPA/GRE breakdown. I did not study political science. I have a sense that my application was weakened by this in several ways: - I got Bs in the few political courses I took - None of my letters came from political scientists - My statement outlined a current, relevant topic that many scholars find interesting, but did not frame it in the language of political science - I have never published or attended a conference or the like I looked for MA programs that focused on addressing these weaknesses. I valued smaller class sizes and two-year programs with lower credit requirements so that I would have access to teachers and time to explore the possibility of publication. I wanted foundational courses in popular subfields (to build my knowledge base and vocabulary) that were intense enough to signal to schools that those Bs were behind me. I'd be a little wary of doing an MA right out of undergrad just to repair a low-ish overall GPA. If you are already a polisci guy with a 3.7ish major GPA and you don't get in to any top 20 Ph.D. programs, you should try to find out why before committing to a time and money suck like and MA. Even if you fit this mold and are set on an MA, look outside the box. "Area studies" degrees might help make you an expert in a region. Stats or quant-heavy polisci MAs might make you stand out as a math and methods genius. Etc.

I also applied to G'town (haven't heard anything) despite their dismal funding record and I've often wondered how anyone could afford it. Apparently a lot of people do Ph.Ds without funding, but that must cost over 200K.

Penelope Higgins, a faculty member of unknown extraction who has been with the board for a long time and earned a lot of trust, has said that Princeton is done admitting and probably done waitlisting. If you have not heard, you are not in. That includes me.

This is the book that inspired me to study political science.

Not to stoke the Rand thing, but: I think everyone in America should be forced to read Atlas Shrugged. I say this for the same or similar reasons I think everyone should have to work as a bartender or waitress.

On this advice I got the Oxford general polisci book. So far it's been a great purchase. Anyone who is entering political science through a side door (like law) can quickly learn the vocabulary and state of discipline of on a variety of questions. The citation sections provide a portal for further reading, but they also serve a decent starting primer on who studies what. Seeing the names presented in a network of subjects provides a lot more insight into scholars' substantive interests that parsing program faculty websites. I've been happy to see that my SoP was substantively fairly insightful, but I failed utterly to convey my interest in terms that political scientists use or with reference to the studies they (rather than lawyers) find most influential on the topic. I would also change up my program wish-list quite a bit on the next round.

Random day brightener! Perfect for this crowd. Skip to 1:30. That's when it gets awesome.

Fair enough, but it's becoming clear he hardly needed the prayers. Must've eaten a lot of tuna fish as a kid, that one. Thanks wannabee, the more fingers crossed (and ... thumbs held?) the better.

He must've thought Tuf was still praying for himself.

Great work, Tufnel! I think my admissions season is just about done. I think I've only got Cornell and G'town left to hear from n the Ph.D. I called Marquette today to see when MA program results will start rolling out. The DGS actually said I have a fair shot at funding for the MA (!) which is a delightful surprise after my personal bloodbath thus far. Of course, I haven't actually been admitted yet, so I'd best keep the cart firmly behind the horse.

GopherGrad: happily accepting your Baby Jesus prayers since 2011.

Nail on the head.

Their admissions website was a hot mess, too.

I'd always planned to go back into consulting during the summers, failing any sort of direct funding for thesis research. That thinking was totally driven by finances. Is there any particular reason I'd prefer to teach or RA?

Thanks, Realist. That was a lot to type, but I think the responses show you it was worth it. The post is immediately sobering. It's easy to focus on the sheer number of well-qualified candidates and despair. How will someone ever find you in the pack? How can you distinguish yourself? Is it all just luck of the draw in terms of interest? But notice this and put the anguish in perspective: The Realist posts from a program among the top 40 in the country, which draws 30 to 40 times as many applications as they have spots. In other words, if applicants to RealistU represents the entire Top 40 schools and those schools all admit similar numbers, everyone that applies to RealistU gets into a Top 40 school. Obviously that's not the case, but there IS significant overlap. For a student with the qualifications to make a final round at RealistU, the chances of admission at some great program is actually very high. Part of the game (for most of us) is to put up with more rejections than acceptances as programs like RealistU's sort out the great candidates (you) that fit into their programs.

Well, it's certainly not random or lucky from the perspective of the schools. Doubtless you're right about the rigor that goes into selecting candidates and rounding out a class. But in terms of who you've become over the last 20-30 years, what your interests are, whether they are in vogue ... well, you reach a certain threshold of qualification and then its diminishing returns. From the perspective of the college freshmen trying to decide between interests and accomplishments to pursue, there certainly is a large element beyond control. To that extent, being admitted over other equally qualified students is certainly lucky, even becoming equally qualified was a difficult process worthy of admiration.

If you're genuinely confused about how best to spend the interim year, I wouldn't hesitate. wtn, You're probably right about fit; there's just no telling. It's hard to ignore that some places felt like home. I think there is a snowball's chance that some Havard adcomm will like something UCSD's didn't. In terms of "lesser" schools rejecting students that get in "better" places, I think a lot of that comes down to the lesser school not wanting inflated admissions numbers. I'm neither the candidate nor Northwestern the school for those shenanigans. In terms of improving my application, it's a no-brainer. I studied theatre in undergrad before going to law school. I took very little polisci and backed into my research interest through political development knowledge that comes from the legal world. My SoP and ability to gauge programs good for my interests were naive; I've never published in political science or researched anything other than law. None of my letters came from political scientists, and one of the closest (an economist) bitched out at the last minute, leaving me submitting an extra letter from a grad student. But I'm an attorney from a great school. I have debt. My job pays very well and I turn 30 in a couple weeks. At what point do I cash in this pipe dream and start living like a responsible adult. Also, check your PMs.

I appreciate that, but what I will really need are two things: 1) help sorting through the cost/benefit of doing a Master's and re-applying to Ph.D. programs; and, should I go through with that, 2) contacts already in Ph.D. programs that can kick off my networking while doing the Master's.