Karmazinov

post-pandemic? or experiencing the feed of genocide without having an outlet within the academy to speak on said genocide?

never mind @Fronkophone! i thought i’d update you since i found out. i got my automated UMD rejection at 3am today. standard rejection letter. i applied for fiction across the board.
i’m still technically waiting to hear back from Rutgers (Camden) and LSU, but i would turn down an offer from LSU if i got one as it’s a 24 hour drive from my fiancée and her kids and requires a 3-year residency—so i would rather wait a year and apply to closer 2-year programs as i’d be graduating at the same time anyway. 
i know Rutgers (Camden) is so finished with their acceptances and waitlists that they’ve started accepting candidates from the waitlist, so i’m going to mark this the end of my cycle. 
i got a total of 1 waitlist from NYU. i’m still looking into funding options in the event i get off the list, but the odds of anything being enough are very low given i would get 50% tuition remission and no stipend. i’m already making my list for next year and have put two “safety schools” (one low-residency with the possibility of a merit-based assistantship and one lesser-known program with full funding and a very small stipend) on it just in case things pan out this way again.
for reference, the schools i applied to ranged between 0.5% and 5.7% in their CWMFA acceptance rates. i applied with science fiction, and i did so more underprepared than i’d thought i was despite starting the process early.

i learned a lot from this year’s cycle. of course i have that awful sinking feeling that i might just not be “good” enough, and that’s why this didn’t work out for me this year. but i know i’ll be in a different place next year—i already am in a different place than i was when i applied in December.
for those of you who didn’t get into a program or didn’t get funding this year or are holding onto hope that a waitlist will work out, i feel you and i hope you don’t give up ❤️

Me too! And with that, my MFA season officially ends with 0A/0W/12R! Congratulations to everyone who has been accepted and is ready to begin their MFA journey! To everyone else, I'm still rooting for all of you and I hope you guys hear good news from the schools you have left, and all the waitlists turn into acceptances and put you out of your limbo. Thank you to everyone on this forum, the ride was a lot more enjoyable sharing all the emotions with you guys. I'll keep writing and maybe one day we'll pass by each other and I'll get to read all of your works! Wishing everyone the absolute best, and I hope that no matter what, you guys can love this craft for a long long time and it brings you a tonne of happiness (even in its hardest moments)! 

Is that for fiction?
Rutgers-Camden takes forever to get rejections out (mine didn't come until April 18th last year), so yeah I think an assumed rejection is the best we'll get for a while. Maybe give it a few days before losing all hope, though.

i think i post too much. 
anyway, i've told everyone here to play to the buzzer. I have an acceptance and a good one and I'm pretty sure it's where I'm going, nevertheless, I'm here till the end. You've all been supportive and inspiring and I'm not giving up on anyone. 
I'm throwing some thoughts into a document and I'll post it towards the end of the cycle for anyone applying next year. I've learned a lot and would do some things differently and I want to pass it on. I can't promise to help anyone get an acceptance but I'm certain it will help someone handle the journey more effectively. Anything anyone thinks i should address? Questions or things you've learned? 
no one is behind. I'm 49 forty fucking nine. I drank most of my life and believed i had wasted it. one of my recommenders (who has absolutely no time for bullshit) said it was all part of what got me here. nothing is a waste. I don't know about you, but i'm a better writer just for all the work i did on my essays. jesus it was a lot of writing and under pressure and in a short time. You are all better than you were yesterday. an athlete or a laborer or even a surgeon has a limited time to peak. We have a lot more. just don't stop. hell, you can even take off a cycle, but do not stop writing. and do not ruin the process by making it about something else. 

Someone on Draft reached out to Rutgers-Camden because their FAQ said end of February for the start of notifications. And the school responded back saying that this year they'll be sending out decisions in mid-to late-March. Hopefully that helps!

Extremely helpful, thank you!!

Just when we were talking about applicants who are 30+ applying to programs... I just got into Oregon for poetry!

Here's what University of Arizona's MFA program says on the matter:
"Is the program typically made up of younger writers or more mature writers? It’s a mix, and it varies year to year. The average age of our grad students is about 27 most years, but we have several students in their 30s and 40s too. Compared to a 30 year old, a 22 year old is less likely to be competitive in terms of life experiences and their craft in writing, but a 35 year old is less likely to have the freedom to attend a residential MFA program."
 
I'd guess anything 50+ or even 40+ is pretty seldom represented among full residency MFA programs, but it's hard to say how much of that comes down to the relative lack of applications, considering many people in that age range have life factors that would complicate being able to attend, hence why you tend to see older writers going for low res options. I imagine the vast majority of applications for full res are coming from young people straight out of their undergrads (or within a couple years), so I have to wonder how the % acceptance would shake out for different age ranges.

As someone who also lives with depression and anxiety, I see you.
I will be 37 in May, which is wild to think of, but I'm here, but I do believe that my age has contributed to me being a better writer because of what I've experienced and what I will continue to experience. If I don't get in anywhere, I'm absolutely trying again. Granted, living in NYC does give one a bit of what I like to call "Peter Pan syndrome" because it seems like we never grow up but there are so many cool people doing cool things in their late 30s, 40s, and 50s and beyond.

Older. 31. 
That’s cute. 

It definitely seems like programs tend to be biased toward younger writers, but it's not impossible to get admitted even if one is older. When I visited Miami University in Ohio recently, I audited a prose workshop in which there was a significantly older woman; she was probably in retirement age, maybe in her late 60s or 70s. That day, the class happened to be workshopping her story, and I greatly admired her courage in sharing her work with a population generations younger than her and the class for their generous feedback and inclusivity. So it's never too late to pursue an MFA, and I would say don't sell yourself short. Take a chance on yourself and don't tell yourself "no," because then the only thing preventing you from pursuing an MFA is not rejections from the programs, but you yourself. 

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

I'm 31 and this is my second go. Hopefully I won't have to do this again, but if I do, my third try will definitely be the last. It does kinda give me whiplash when I see undergrads getting into programs (you all deserve it, don't get me wrong!) but I'm often thinking about what they're writing about and why I'm not standing out. I think it's worth it to give it another try if you have to!
One thing I'm using to leverage the pain is that, through my job, I can go back for an MA at almost no cost, so it's not the "end" of getting a graduate degree for me. I might also have a chapbook coming out this year, so it's really just about setting reasonable goals and not putting all your happiness eggs into the MFA basket!

Hi all. Really appreciate this community. It is interesting to me how seriously people take the prospect of getting an MFA. I feel like we should understand it is not a cosmic rejection of you as a writer if you don't get an acceptance, although I understand the disappointment. I have been rejected from 2 and am waiting on 3 more. I know it stings.
But remember there are many worse things happening. There is a genocide occurring for instance. Financed, armed by the US government, and its grotesque barbaric details ignored by the media. Hind Rajab, anyone?
If I don't get in to an MFA it will not mean God has turned his back on me. Or that I'm a failed writer. I write because I must. I want to. I aspire to be as good as I can. I don't know if I what I have to say will be of interest to anyone. I don't think the world owes me a professional career as a writer. I know I can keep writing as long as I have writing materials and some spare time.
Of course, it is elemental to writing that there is a reader. We want to be read. So I understand the desire for commercial or institutional success. But there are other paths to a readership than an MFA. It will suck if, and probably when, I get my next 3 rejections. But it won't stop me writing, submitting, trying different things, different ways to become a read writer while still being driven by that authentic, naive, natural writing impulse I've had since I was a chld - which is simply to explore interesting sentences/paragraphs/pages/blocks of imaginative text that form their own coherent spellbinding world. The rest is fate and silence.
 
 

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

100% this.
I am not a US citizen, but I am witnessing university culture here over the last year and I am STUNNED how safe and timid it is. I thought it was a bastion of radical thought, of brave protest etc, but I have seen how speaking about the brutal racist genocide can get you blacklisted, fired, kicked out, doxxed, assaulted.
Also, amazed how tenured professors, who've made a name for themselves on supposedly freedom oriented causes, colonialism etc, now keep their traps tight shut on live abuses, and just generally how careerist everyone is.
I certainly don't think art should only be in the service of politics, in fact it often bores me aesthetically, and I usually prefer more indirect stuff. But I am just shocked how hypocritical people are, and how aggressive the conserative political forces are, and how the academy only pays lip services to causes that are dead, not those ongoing. "Follow the money" is the key phrase to trace all this.

Yeah I got nothin so far. 2 rejections.
 
 
thank you!

Congratulations! Looks like we are building up a small NYU community here! 
 
A reliable source says they will send out acceptance on 1 March. 

Joyce Carol Oates and Ocean Vuong are why. 

YESSSS!!!! 
congratulations! this makes me super happy.
also, i hate you.