avhosa

I have no idea! I've been waiting on some acquaintances to get back to me about potentially being roommates, but if they have roommate matching services, I might just take advantage of that. Congrats on choosing UC Davis! I visited Penn State too, which had a beautiful campus, but they seemed to be too much of an undergrad party school -- not really my cup of tea. Davis seems genuinely nice and refined in comparison. I hope I'll like it! Oh, I forgot: hey almennur!

Just keep pestering them. Have you talked to the other grad students in those programs? How do they get funding? If you have to take out a loan, I'd say you're in the one field in which such an option wouldn't be completely insane. Statisticians are always in demand -- at least from what I've heard from various people in academia -- and don't have trouble finding jobs. Behind every great lab, every large business... every everything, there's a handful of statistics PhDs.

I'd have to agree with juilletmercredi. If you're going to have to go into debt to attend CGU, don't do it. Let's be honest here: your chances of obtaining a decent academic career afterwards are grim. It's practically the same for everyone with a PhD. It's true that people don't go into grad school for the money, but rather for the fulfillment one gets in earning a higher degree (that's certainly why I'm doing it) but unless you have enough to live on comfortably, you won't enjoy it. On the other hand, CGU might not be that bad... have you met the current grad students there? Do they seem happy? Where do they get their funding?

Hey Mrs. Grad! I'm going to UC Davis for Genetics. As a person from Madison, WI, I'm mostly looking forward to not having to deal with snow anymore! If anyone out there is looking for a roommate, hit me up

IMO, don't go. It's hard enough to find reasonable employment after grad school... if you have to take out loans, it'll just be worse. Mind if I ask what field you're going into? It's strange: I'm in biology, and I've never heard of anyone having issues with funding. My credentials aren't all that great (GPA: 3.2, average GRE), but I got scholarships and stipend offers of >24k from all the schools I applied to -- given, they aren't typically thought of as top-notch institutions. I have a friend in mathematics, and the only reason he doesn't take out loans is because he got a scholarship and he lives with his parents. I think mathematics PhDs don't have a hard time finding high-paying jobs (if you don't mind doing actuarial work), so it *might* be worth going into a bit of debt. But if you're in biology, or any of the humanities, just DON'T DO IT unless you have funding.

@starmaker Thanks for the great response. I think I've just about overcome my "PhD heebie-jeebies" and am now (slowly) settling into a more realistic perspective, partly due to this forum, and partly due to some reading I've been doing on the internet, particularly this: http://cenblog.org/j...anybodys-guess/ While not providing any definitive conclusions, the article is at least skeptical of the notion that there are too many PhDs in the job market. IMO the most compelling point she brings up is the fact that people have been complaining that there are too many PhDs for YEARS now, even before the recession, even if the average salary of science PhDs continues to increase, albeit modestly. Given, it's in the physical, not the biological, sciences.

I have absolutely no doubt you'll get interviews in most, if not all, of those schools. Your GRE scores are good and your GPA is decent. I've gotten interviews at most of my schools with an undergraduate GPA of 3.2, a worse GRE score, no MS, and just under 4 years of lab experience. You've already completed your MS, so they know that you'll be devoted to your work. They'd be stupid not to accept you.

My story: I have interviews at three different PhD programs, one of which is an Applied Plant Sciences program, and the other two Genetics programs. Ultimately, I am interested in working in the plant breeding industry and do not have any plans on staying in academia after my PhD if I can help it (I realize that a post-doc may be necessary, but I'd rather not do one). The reason I applied to Genetics programs in the other schools is because there were enough faculty in their Genetics department who's research I was interested in (i.e. plant genetics/genomics) so I figured I'd leave my options open and get a "general" Genetics PhD in these schools. Also, the Genetics programs offer better stipends in the schools I applied to. I'm not wholly averse to working in academia after my PhD, particularly if the economy picks up in the next 5 years and the market for academic jobs isn't as hopelessly grim as it currently is, but I intend to prepare myself for industry as much as I can in grad school because that's probably where I'm going to end up. So here's my question: should I attend the Applied Plant Sciences program or the more general Genetics program? Will earning an applied PhD totally kill my chances for getting a job if I decided I wanted to teach after my PhD, say, at a community college? If the applied degree is preferable, is the smaller stipend (~$5K less) worth it?

Thanks all for the great replies/suggestions. I'm definitely going to try to look to join a maize genetics lab rather than an arabidopsis genetics lab -- perhaps something into biofuels. From what I hear from my current lab PI, model organisms are going the way of the dinosaur, and it's increasing difficult to find funding for fruit-fly/arabidopsis/C. elegans. This is coming from someone who made his name in arabidopsis. I might be getting a patent from the work that I'm doing right now on brassicas, so I suppose I have a head start on that one! It will probably have nothing to do with the company I will (hopefully) join in the future, but at least I can say that I've had product development experience.

Again, thanks for the excellent advice. But would a certificate in something like Marketing imply that I want to manage people? I just want to do one to see if I can go into sales, not management. @Eigen: What do you mean by applications? Do you mean, a professor who's working on a product for use in industry? @Sevi: I know how you feel! I'm still definitely going to the interviews. Who knows? I might instantly fall in love with the atmosphere and the professors. I want to earn a PhD for reasons other than to boost my credentials. I enjoy the university environment and (I think) I'll enjoy the research. Also, a general question to anyone who can answer it: would a genetics PhD be transferable to other fields, like biochemistry? My dream job would be to work in plant breeding or something similar, but I realize that there may not be as many jobs in that than in biochemistry.

@ BlueRose: Thanks for the splendid advice. You brought up some extremely compelling points that I hadn't considered, particularly: " I am reminded that this is why my dad encouraged me to pursue my PhD. He contemplated furthering his education after his MS, but never got to it, because re-entering academia is difficult. and... I guess my only concern would be how I can market myself as a PhD for lower level positions -- might they think that I will be unwilling to do entry-level grunt work and will demand to be paid more because I'm a PhD? How do I convince employers that I am not above grunt-work for the experience? Also, is there's anything I can do to make myself a more appealing job candidate while I'm completing my PhD? I've contemplated perhaps earning some certificates (e.g. Marketing, Business, etc...) to diversify myself.

Here is what I thought when I applied to PhD graduate programs 1-2 months ago, inferred by talking to grad-student friends, professors, and advisors: - A PhD is preferable to an MS because you are more likely to receive funding as a PhD, i.e. you won't be drowning in debt after grad school. - Earning a PhD is a 5 year investment. - A PhD will give me an edge in industry job applications. - PhD is required to advance into a higher position in industry. - Even if my plans to enter industry fall through, I can always seek to become a college professor/researcher. - It's difficult to re-enter academia once you're in industry, so I might as well earn my PhD while my connections with my undergrad profs are still fresh. How naive I was. What I've slowly uncovered since, by reading various forums on the internet and looking critically at what I *actually* see around me: - A 50% average attrition rate is not uncommon among PhD programs. - Only 70% of new PhDs will find employment after earning their degree, and 70% of those who find employment become post-docs, which pays approximately 35k, which is comparable to the salary of a start-up position in industry. - Requiring *7 YEARS* to complete a PhD is the new norm. - The length of a post-doctorship is indeterminate, and there's still no guarantee that one will enter a tenure track after being a post-doc since the market for professorships is so grim. - MS are actually *more* competitive than PhDs in entry-level industry positions, since a PhD is often seen as "ivory tower" and suggest to the employer than that one has myopic career interests. - While a PhD is required for higher industry positions, without several years of entry-level work experience, it does one no good. This revelation is only further corroborated by conversations and experiences I've had lately: 1) Being desperate to find a job, the post-doc I worked under in lab applied to a teaching position at a community college. She was rejected because she was deemed "overqualified". Alternatively, my dad, who only has an MS, acquired a teaching job at the same community college. 2) A friend tells me that several biochemistry PhDs are applying to the same positions she is as a mere BS in a company that has little to do with biochemistry. She and the PhDs got hired but are paid nearly the same salary. To be honest, I feel somewhat betrayed by my grad-school friends and especially my professors for not informing me of the full facts. While I had a general sense of the sacrifices necessary for grad school, I had no idea the conditions and job prospects were so utterly grim, particularly regarding someone interested in entering the private sector. I have read that it's considered rather gauche among professors to talk about grad school negatively, as it's in all their best interests to keep creating more grad students for cheap labor. As for my grad student friends, I suspect they're still somewhat delusional themselves and are really in no position to offer sound career advice. I've received several interview offers from the PhD programs I've applied to, but instead of being thrilled, I'm terrified. To add to my confusion, I will have to sacrifice a wonderful 1-year relationship I currently have in order to pursue a PhD (he has several job offers that he can't pass up that are in different locations from the grad schools I've applied to). So please, scientists in industry, anonymous college professors, embittered ex-PhD candidates: what should I do? I've heard of several PhD drop-outs who are awarded an MS or an MPhil degree instead. How common is it for grad schools to offer an en-route MS? What is a MPhil worth?